jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
|
Post by jamesp on May 14, 2015 9:31:44 GMT -5
LOL,I'm going to stick to my small Lortone tumblers-I'm not in a hurry anymore in life....I got a headache from just the read! A chain of three gear reductions, you can use diameter of gear(for pulley) or in this case number of teeth of each gear: n1/n2 X n3/n4 X n5/n6 = 31/51 X 21/41 X 19/37 = .158 So 1500 RPM would be slowed to .158 X 1500 = 237 RPM if arithmetic is correct. So reductions are simple. But the shaft and the barrel is difficult to grasp. Thumbler is a double reduction instead of this triple reduction. Input is 1500 RPM motor and output is 237 RPM. Car transmission 10 times more complicated. With the Thumbler, n1 is on the motor, n2 is the big pulley, n3 is the shaft and n4 is the barrel.
|
|
matt2432
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2014
Posts: 171
|
Post by matt2432 on May 14, 2015 9:44:52 GMT -5
LOL,I'm going to stick to my small Lortone tumblers-I'm not in a hurry anymore in life....I got a headache from just the read!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
|
Post by jamesp on May 14, 2015 9:50:26 GMT -5
I thought about posting such Matt. But already felt like a smart ass
|
|
stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
|
Post by stonemaster499 on May 14, 2015 10:12:06 GMT -5
Guys lets try and stay on focus. The simple mod will work on anyone's rotary tumbler (to speed up/ slow down) which will enhance control, and your general experience. Pulley size change is the ideal permanent solution. Tape (non-adhesive rubber stretch), or other ideas suggested above will all work for the Drive roller mod, which is incredibly easy to do. Also you will be freed from from the one-speed-fits-all assumption, which might apply to someone beginning but not to an advanced tumbler, or someone wanting to improve their techniques. If your happy with the one-speed system, as it is tried tested and proved and works for you, then leave it alone. I'm sure anyone tumbling chalcedonies (agates, jaspers) will thank me later. Very expensive high-end tumblers have adjustable/variable speed controls for this reason. I don't like these, as the motors wear out much faster. My next mod will show you how to slow down your UV-10. The UV-10, or all Thumler vibes run at 3000 VPM, which IMHO is perfect for hard stones, but too fast for soft stones. Its also too fast for polishing. It works, again in general. A lot of the hazing I have read about in these this forum is actually from too much action on the vibe. I previously killed soft stone loads during the superwash stage (usually after 1000 Al Ox ), as there is nothing to protect the stones (thickening agents). Running the vibe at 1/2 the speed eliminates 90% of the problem. Again, like I said above, high end vibes are offered in Variable Speed models, for user control. The issue is the motor wears much faster.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on May 14, 2015 10:41:30 GMT -5
Guys lets try and stay on focus. My next mod will show you how to slow down your UV-10. Watching with interest. and maybe a question or two
|
|
|
Post by MrP on May 14, 2015 18:17:55 GMT -5
Guys lets try and stay on focus. The simple mod will work on anyone's rotary tumbler (to speed up/ slow down) which will enhance control, and your general experience. Pulley size change is the ideal permanent solution. Tape (non-adhesive rubber stretch), or other ideas suggested above will all work for the Drive roller mod, which is incredibly easy to do. Also you will be freed from from the one-speed-fits-all assumption, which might apply to someone beginning but not to an advanced tumbler, or someone wanting to improve their techniques. If your happy with the one-speed system, as it is tried tested and proved and works for you, then leave it alone. I'm sure anyone tumbling chalcedonies (agates, jaspers) will thank me later. Very expensive high-end tumblers have adjustable/variable speed controls for this reason. I don't like these, as the motors wear out much faster. My next mod will show you how to slow down your UV-10. The UV-10, or all Thumler vibes run at 3000 VPM, which IMHO is perfect for hard stones, but too fast for soft stones. Its also too fast for polishing. It works, again in general. A lot of the hazing I have read about in these this forum is actually from too much action on the vibe. I previously killed soft stone loads during the superwash stage (usually after 1000 Al Ox ), as there is nothing to protect the stones (thickening agents). Running the vibe at 1/2 the speed eliminates 90% of the problem. Again, like I said above, high end vibes are offered in Variable Speed models, for user control. The issue is the motor wears much faster. stonemaster499 On my UV tumblers, 10,18,45, I drilled and tapped the back side of the counter weight and add a bolt with washers until I get the action I am looking for. I found the factory setting to be too harsh for softer stone...........................................................MrP
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on May 14, 2015 19:14:30 GMT -5
On some vibe tumblers you can change speed by moving counterweight up or down on shaft. Gy-Roc has two weights and speed can be varied by changing their relative position. They also use a two groove pulley for belt drive which gives you high or low speed choice. Diamond Pacific's Mini Sonics all have speed control and no motor to burn up. Both of these are higher end tumblers though.
|
|
stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
|
Post by stonemaster499 on May 14, 2015 21:36:49 GMT -5
MrP you are well ahead of others, and have the concept down perfect! If you can post pictures of this? Many here can benefit. I was planning on doing so, but won't have time until I return from Xiamen - the agate capital of the world. Your method is perfect. All I was planning to do was remove the counterweight, and replace with 2 equal weights that can be screwed together. Decreasing the weight by 50% (ie removing one of the weights) should make it vibrate closer to true at 1500 VPM, for softer stones and polish. When you want it fast, add the 2nd weight, and back at 3000 VPM (for harder stones). I have done this with my industrial size tumblers, but not the UV-10 yet. I would love to see your mod!
|
|
stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
|
Post by stonemaster499 on May 14, 2015 21:54:13 GMT -5
johnjsgems yes those each have speed controls. Thanks for sharing these. I own mini-sonics, and would only use these for jewelry. The viking-style model they sell has speed adjustment controls. This would be the high-end model. Mine runs like a tank. Gy-roc I know nothing about, but have heard good things. The majority of people here use either the Lot-o or UV-10. Both groups swear by each. The UV-10 implements the "standard" design (horizontal elliptical). The manufacturer has no plans to change this. In fact, said the unit is made for "hard stones".... So, we need a mod "for the community", for what they use. Plus, these mods are really only for the advanced tumbler, someone doing soft or delicate stones.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
|
Post by jamesp on May 15, 2015 6:41:30 GMT -5
Great info. Some vibes have motor speed controls and some have counterweight adjustments. Two ways to skin the ole cat.
|
|
graystonerocks
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2015
Posts: 3
|
Post by graystonerocks on Sept 7, 2015 18:07:04 GMT -5
My Thumler's model B's spin 22 RPM empty, and 18-20 RPM full. While this speed works for all round general use, it is not ideal for Hard Stones [H.7 - (chalcedonies: agates and jaspers)] I want my hard stones to spin at 32 RPM, in order to get the same results in 1/3 time. I would also advise using GREEN 46 grit SiC or G46SiC. The lower grit size, and the increased speed should cut your grind time by at least 40%, and decrease your abrasive use, since you will have less grinding cycles. If you really want to speed things up, go hard-core, and get Green 17 grit SiC or G17SiC (50% decrease in standard tumbling times). I would also like to "introduce" to the tumbling world (RTH) Green Silicon Carbide. Green is a higher quality Silicon carbide, more pure crystals which are harder and more aggressive. You can get by perfectly fine with using black silicon carbide, but it will be less efficient. In General the green is ***15-30% more efficient, and ***15-30% more expensive. ***I only recommend GSiC for harder stones, and would consider quartz fine with black SiC. Since time is money, anyway I can speed up the process counts. Thumler's model B mod: The simplest way to speed up the process is to mod the drive shaft by adding diameter. I first used black electrical tape. It worked well, but wears out over time, and needs to be adjusted every few months to keep the speed. Then, I thought of hockey stick tape. Brilliant...Until i put it on... nightmare. It gets so gooey, wow, I don't even know how I recovered by somehow removing it. Finally, I switched to non-adhesive, self fusing rubber tape and all is well. 1" x 6'-8" perfect for one application, and mine as not needed to adjusted in the last 3 months, but did drop to 30 RPM recently, so perhaps the tape has leveled a bit, and requires a slight addition to get back to 32 RPM/ I used 34" of tape wrapped around each roller of the Drive Shaft. Drive Shaft Mod (see video) I was prepared to add, more, but my speed ended up at my desired 32 RPM. Sometime it takes a few minutes to get up to speed! Since you are adding more force to the motor, you might need to help it start, and or run the tumbler first and then place the barrel. The motor will run a bit hotter, and you might decrease its life proportionally with the increased use. Mine has been Modified since Aug 2014, and runs pretty much 24/7 without an issue. Yes you can get the same results by increasing the pulley as well, but don't have the speed control by adding or subtracting tape. I have an extra drive shaft, so if I need to switch back to standard speed, I only need to switch out the drive shaft, and have a 2 speed rotary tumbler. This gives me much more control of my product, and much more use and pleasure of the machine. **If you have the High-speed model B, you already have the perfect machine for harder stones. To slow down your tumbler for quartz and softer: Get an extra drive belt, and decrease diameter of the foam rollers (for example sand them down), or ideally replace the pulley with a smaller one. If your tumbler wonders to either side, which is a general problem with this design (especially if not running flat), you can add a washer below the bottom of the side it is wandering towards to correct. Thanks to Connrock for that idea, and you can see this in the video as well with my standard model B (left side, Barrel #1 was wandering to the left, so I added a washer below the right side to correct. Enjoy!
|
|
graystonerocks
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2015
Posts: 3
|
Post by graystonerocks on Sept 7, 2015 18:14:51 GMT -5
My Thumler's model B's spin 22 RPM empty, and 18-20 RPM full. While this speed works for all round general use, it is not ideal for Hard Stones [H.7 - (chalcedonies: agates and jaspers)] I want my hard stones to spin at 32 RPM, in order to get the same results in 1/3 time. I would also advise using GREEN 46 grit SiC or G46SiC. The lower grit size, and the increased speed should cut your grind time by at least 40%, and decrease your abrasive use, since you will have less grinding cycles. If you really want to speed things up, go hard-core, and get Green 17 grit SiC or G17SiC (50% decrease in standard tumbling times). I would also like to "introduce" to the tumbling world (RTH) Green Silicon Carbide. Green is a higher quality Silicon carbide, more pure crystals which are harder and more aggressive. You can get by perfectly fine with using black silicon carbide, but it will be less efficient. In General the green is ***15-30% more efficient, and ***15-30% more expensive. ***I only recommend GSiC for harder stones, and would consider quartz fine with black SiC. Since time is money, anyway I can speed up the process counts. Thumler's model B mod: The simplest way to speed up the process is to mod the drive shaft by adding diameter. I first used black electrical tape. It worked well, but wears out over time, and needs to be adjusted every few months to keep the speed. Then, I thought of hockey stick tape. Brilliant...Until i put it on... nightmare. It gets so gooey, wow, I don't even know how I recovered by somehow removing it. Finally, I switched to non-adhesive, self fusing rubber tape and all is well. 1" x 6'-8" perfect for one application, and mine as not needed to adjusted in the last 3 months, but did drop to 30 RPM recently, so perhaps the tape has leveled a bit, and requires a slight addition to get back to 32 RPM/ I used 34" of tape wrapped around each roller of the Drive Shaft. Drive Shaft Mod (see video) I was prepared to add, more, but my speed ended up at my desired 32 RPM. Sometime it takes a few minutes to get up to speed! Since you are adding more force to the motor, you might need to help it start, and or run the tumbler first and then place the barrel. The motor will run a bit hotter, and you might decrease its life proportionally with the increased use. Mine has been Modified since Aug 2014, and runs pretty much 24/7 without an issue. Yes you can get the same results by increasing the pulley as well, but don't have the speed control by adding or subtracting tape. I have an extra drive shaft, so if I need to switch back to standard speed, I only need to switch out the drive shaft, and have a 2 speed rotary tumbler. This gives me much more control of my product, and much more use and pleasure of the machine. **If you have the High-speed model B, you already have the perfect machine for harder stones. To slow down your tumbler for quartz and softer: Get an extra drive belt, and decrease diameter of the foam rollers (for example sand them down), or ideally replace the pulley with a smaller one. If your tumbler wonders to either side, which is a general problem with this design (especially if not running flat), you can add a washer below the bottom of the side it is wandering towards to correct. Thanks to Connrock for that idea, and you can see this in the video as well with my standard model B (left side, Barrel #1 was wandering to the left, so I added a washer below the right side to correct. Enjoy! Does anyone have hard data on Green SiC Vs. Black SiC spinning MOHs 7 or harder at very coarse grit, like 36 or 60. I have seen significant results with black 36 or 46-70 Vs. 60-90, etc. at higher barrel speed with hard agate (like Montana) ...any thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 21:19:46 GMT -5
captbob, everyone is turning this into rocket science and it is not. Maybe this will help. The rocks are being lifted on one side of the barrel and sliding to the other side. Lifting that rock 30 times a minute takes more energy than lifting that same rock ten times a minute. Easy peasy. Jim
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
|
Post by jamesp on Sept 8, 2015 4:34:25 GMT -5
Yes @wampidy
|
|
lou23464
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2024
Posts: 4
|
Post by lou23464 on Oct 22, 2024 0:50:19 GMT -5
What diameter did you end up with on the tape-up, would a piece of airline or fuel line hose have ended at ~the same dia., and not had as much of a maintenance requirement? Just a thought. I've used the hose on a couple small tumbler builds and it lasts very well.
|
|