Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on May 25, 2015 21:35:44 GMT -5
That is a heck of a beautiful rock! I bet that you get teary-eyed when you think about that beauty being shattered into bits.
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on May 26, 2015 9:08:50 GMT -5
I have hammered literally hundreds of pounds of tumbling rough. It just takes a bit of practice.
Keep your chisel sharp, and wear good heavy gloves, and eye protection. Use the chisel to direct the force. Do not use a carpenter's hammer, or woodworking chisels. Do not use a geologist's pick, either, it's not meant to hit steel.
There's no shattering involved, you crack the rock where you want it cracked. An anvil, big cheap vice with a mini inset anvil atop, or a proper rock breaker all make it easier.
Saws are all well and good, but they are incredibly slow if you have anything of size or hardness. You're going to cut a 6" Brazilian agate or chunk of Indian jasper for tumbling? Waste of oil and diamond.
Big saws are big money, and they're like boats... never big enough! By all means, though, if you have the $2-10k for one, do get it, sawing rocks is incredibly fun. Oil and blades are a continuous cost that you need to budget for. You might find it's even more fun than cabbing!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on May 26, 2015 9:38:48 GMT -5
SirRoxalot- It is a lot about the procedure, type of rock and hammer. Granite next to impossible, high grade glassy agate is easy. Brazilian and Indian malt's mentioned are easy with a hammer. A saw is a huge help if you have a 6 inch say round nodule. Cut it in half and hammer on the flat sawn face. It will break down easy. Even better, saw 1.5-2 inch thick slabs, then hammer them down striking the flat faces.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 26, 2015 9:51:29 GMT -5
I would say about 50 percent of what I tumble gets busted up to size with sledge hammers. I have a steel plate and an aluminum plate that I use. I surround an area about 5 feet in diameter with cardboard and plywood scraps so the rocks do not end up all over my garage. I have too many rocks and not enough time so no chisels get used. Long pants, long shirt, boots, gloves and safety glass are all a must. Even with all of that I have had a few cuts in the forehead from flying debris. Just this weekend I was busting up 25 pound chunks with a 16 pound sledge and had pieces landing over 30 feet away. Here's a link that shows a bit of my process forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/66783/scenesAnd heres the stuff I broke up this weekend forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/70942/drummond-island-trip-report?page=1&scrollTo=811733Chuck
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on May 26, 2015 11:18:07 GMT -5
Chuck learned that doing time(prison time).
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on May 26, 2015 17:51:16 GMT -5
See this beautiful rock? When I was newer to this site and had never broke big rocks down for tumbling, someone on here told me to break it down with a hammer. Since I have always used ready sized rocks before, I took them at their word. I broke this rock and a few others down with a hammer and in the end I destroyed everything. I have nothing left of any of them. They were all fractured so bad that it was all garbage. I have never found another piece since then. I still regret listening to that bad advise. Mark, my heart would be broken. And I'm confident that is exactly what would happen to me. I experimented with some very cheap rock and no. Just no. Busting with a rock hammer obviously works for some but it's not for me!
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on May 26, 2015 17:57:40 GMT -5
You're going to cut a 6" Brazilian agate or chunk of Indian jasper for tumbling? Waste of oil and diamond. Big saws are big money, and they're like boats... never big enough! By all means, though, if you have the $2-10k for one, do get it, sawing rocks is incredibly fun. Oil and blades are a continuous cost that you need to budget for. You might find it's even more fun than cabbing! Yep. We definitely cut up those materials for tumbling. A hobbyist often has a different opinion about the cost of oil, diamond blades, and saws than a professional might. We don't have to make it economic. It's our hobby. There's no doubt in my mind that hubby loves the sawing and slabbing much more than the cabbing and tumbling. It's a guy thing maybe...! Also be aware that if you're not spending money on one hobby, you're spending money on another. Rock equipment is cheap at the price compared to other hobbies guys get into. I would be afraid to tell you what his friends spend on fishing and golf!
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,771
Member is Online
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Post by Mark K on May 26, 2015 18:16:45 GMT -5
Fishing also gives you something in return. Golf, nothing but a sunburn and an empty wallet.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 26, 2015 19:32:11 GMT -5
peachfront Mark KFor those that mentioned using a tile saw to reduce rocks I would like to know how you get nice natural shapes with that method? It would seem the tumbles would have a bunch of flat sides and edges kinda like when I tumble my cabbing scraps. If you are buying some expensive 4 pound rock off ebay and want to fill a 3 pound barrel I can maybe see the reluctance in hitting it with a sledge hammer but if you go out and collect a hundred pounds or so and want to tumble it time becomes an issue. My first example is the Brazilian agate from last years world tumbling contest. The rough that was sent to each contestant was crushed in a hydraulic ram. I am sure they sent out over 100 pounds so cutting and breaking nicely with chisels would not have been an option. here is the rough we were given. Most of you probably say that looks like a tray of fractured junk but I say it looks like a good tumbling challenge. This weeds out the faint at heart. and here were the finished product My second example is the large chunks of flint ridge I reduced with a 10 pound sledge here is what I brought home here is after the sledge hammer And these are just a few pictures of the 40 pounds I tumbled I am not saying crushing rocks is for everyone but I did want to show my brazilian agate example since someone mentioned it would be a shame to crush it for tumbling. As mentioned in someones post above there is certainly some danger involved in busting rocks too but hey some days after work it feels really good to break some rocks if you know what I mean. Chuck
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ringlord
starting to shine!
Member since May 2015
Posts: 31
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Post by ringlord on May 27, 2015 7:30:32 GMT -5
I'm still at the "tumble everything and see how it turns out" stage. Drummond Island Rocks, what do you do with pieces that obviously (deep pits, bad fractures, etc) won't tumble well? Toss them out, clean them up a bit by hand, or just tumble them anyway?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 27, 2015 7:58:25 GMT -5
I'm still at the "tumble everything and see how it turns out" stage. Drummond, what do you do with pieces that obviously (deep pits, bad fractures, etc) won't tumble well? Toss them out, clean them up a bit by hand, or just tumble them anyway? Most everything goes in the tumblers but after the first couple of clean outs if something looks like it will never tumble correctly I either I grind the flaws out on an 80 grit diamond wheel or it gets tossed. The grind option is only used if I think there is good potential for a nice tumble when done or if it was expensive rough. I always plan for 30%-50% loss on my tumbles so if I am buying tiger eye to tumble and it costs $6 a pound I assume that a pound of finished product might actually cost closer to $12 (plus grit usage) Chuck
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
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Post by Mark K on May 27, 2015 10:25:20 GMT -5
I have a coffee can I put my rejects in. In other words, if it is too much work to fool with or it is never going to come out to my satisfaction, in it goes. Then I give the can away to some friends who will put much more effort into it because they are smaller scale.
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on May 27, 2015 12:43:10 GMT -5
I think what I'm trying to say, Chuck, is that crushing rocks is not really an amateur activity. It's something that's easy to screw up if you're a noob and then you have a lot of regrets. There's no doubt that you do a wonderful job of it! I just don't have any faith in my ability to ever do the same...
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 27, 2015 13:00:12 GMT -5
agreed . At some point it becomes a necessary evil in the hobby though. Like I said in a previous thread, I compare reducing tumble rough to cleaning out my slab saw. Both are dirty nasty jobs I avoid doing until I have to.
Chuck
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riverrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2010
Posts: 1,395
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Post by riverrock on Jun 2, 2015 7:07:57 GMT -5
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Post by adam on Jun 2, 2015 10:52:47 GMT -5
I've cut my hands many a time with little regard to the handling of broken chalcedony and dogtooth quartz tips. I reckon as I grow older I'll learn to remember to use gloves and safety glasses, and save the bigger rocks for another day.
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