petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Aug 18, 2015 0:07:59 GMT -5
So I finally picked up a rock tumbler the other day and started tumbling my first batch last night! I got some grit from the rock shop and in the directions that came with the grit it says to use tide detergent in the first step and every other step. Why? I have some liquid tide, but haven't added it because I wasn't sure of the purpose or if it was a good idea. I think it is a 12lb barrel..
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Aug 18, 2015 0:30:45 GMT -5
Many people use powdered Tide [or similar] for a couple hours between steps to insure good, clean rocks for the next step. Never heard of a recommendation to run soap during each stage. Here, we save the soap run for after polish, we mix the soap 'till about like thin pancake batter and run a lot of padding [leather pieces] with it. It isn't about right or wrong, it's what works for you. Try different methods, you will get there.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,711
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Post by Fossilman on Aug 18, 2015 10:08:19 GMT -5
Never heard of that idea! I do clean my rocks with every tumble stage of grit change-I use Dawn soap and wash the rocks and equipment,than rinse in fresh water.... Start the next stage of grit and tumble away............
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Aug 18, 2015 10:20:10 GMT -5
You don't need soap in any tumbling stage in my opinion.
I have heard some say it lubricates and lets the grit slide better along the rocks surfaces. Don't know about that being true'\.
Once put some ivory in with some crazy lace going on the above theory. Opened the barrel after a week and found a bunch of bubbles from the soap. Most of the grit was suspended in the bubbles. The rocks were virtually unchanged.
If trying soap I'd go with something non-foaming.
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petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Aug 18, 2015 11:48:27 GMT -5
Cool, thanks everyone! I'll save the soap for cleaning between stages. What should the consistency of the slurry be on day two? I was expecting mine to be a little thicker, it seems pretty much like water consistency right now. An old book that came with the tumbler suggests using clean sawdust to help the slurry develop. Anyone tried this?
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stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
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Post by stonemaster499 on Aug 18, 2015 12:23:58 GMT -5
I disagree. Soap is not necessary, but improves the slurry in a vibratory system. It breaks the surface tension, and allows more room for error! It creates micro-bubbles that aid in cushioning the stones and aid as a carrier to deliver the grit more efficiently. The secret is adding the correct amount. Some experts here even go crazy with the soap. Connrock gave me a tip to use powdered soap to prevent contamination with vugs and cavities (ie add soap to fill the cavities, so grit cannot enter). You wont find that tip in a book !
If you want better results, I would recommend using a little soap to at the very least break the surface tension of the water and the stones. This practice will also speed up your cycle times.
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petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Aug 18, 2015 13:22:42 GMT -5
Right on stone master, would the soap act the same way in a rotary tumbler?
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Aug 18, 2015 13:49:48 GMT -5
I use ivory flakes scraped from a bar of ivory soap, I feel it gives the slurry some help getting started, and cushions to a degree in the vibe. All stages.
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stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
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Post by stonemaster499 on Aug 18, 2015 16:58:37 GMT -5
I would use a pinch in rotary as well, for the surfaces tension issue, but get along fine without it as well in Rotary. Essential for me in a vibe (15-50% of the abrasive, the higher % in softer stones).
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MrCoffee
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2005
Posts: 634
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Post by MrCoffee on Aug 19, 2015 22:58:39 GMT -5
It's been a while since I replied on these boards. But, I've been using Cascade dish washer detergent on an experimental basis. I have found it to be more effective than Dawn, Dreft, or Ivory detergent for cleaning and lubrication. Cascade does not foam, and is specifically designed for hard surfaces, ceramics, and glass. I have not had any problems with a gas buildup, due to the non foaming properties. I am going to try Cascade on a batch of dinosaur bone, to see if it will help decrease the foam and the gas buildup during rough grinding.
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lhr
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2015
Posts: 15
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Post by lhr on Sept 1, 2015 7:15:43 GMT -5
How much Cascade do you use? (I'm using 3 lb barrels.)
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MrCoffee
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2005
Posts: 634
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Post by MrCoffee on Sept 1, 2015 22:32:32 GMT -5
How much Cascade do you use? (I'm using 3 lb barrels.) I would opt for a teaspoon, up to a tablespoon on a rotary. I have added a tablespoon to a 3 pound barrel, and there was no harm done. The stones actually burnished better, and turned out cleaner.
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lhr
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2015
Posts: 15
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Post by lhr on Sept 2, 2015 6:45:56 GMT -5
Thanks. Are you using the powder or liquid?
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grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
Posts: 878
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Post by grizman on Sept 2, 2015 11:42:46 GMT -5
Thanks. Are you using the powder or liquid? We all need to know!
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mrzulu
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2015
Posts: 245
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Post by mrzulu on Sept 2, 2015 12:03:40 GMT -5
I use 20 Mule Team Borax as a burnishing powder alone in the final step and a heaping teaspoon with each step prior.
My Father used the same stuff
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Sept 3, 2015 0:14:11 GMT -5
I also put 20 Mule Team Borax in all my grits & polishes. I make earrings out of thin slices. Without soap, they tend to stick together, but the soap keeps them slipperier & slidier (if I may coin a phrase). Lynn
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mrzulu
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2015
Posts: 245
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Post by mrzulu on Sept 3, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
I also put 20 Mule Team Borax in all my grits & polishes. I make earrings out of thin slices. Without soap, they tend to stick together, but the soap keeps them slipperier & slidier (if I may coin a phrase). Lynn Weird, eh? One would think the soapy viscosity would be more sticky not less.
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MrCoffee
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2005
Posts: 634
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Post by MrCoffee on Sept 27, 2015 18:40:09 GMT -5
Thanks. Are you using the powder or liquid? Either should work. I use powder because it works better with my dishwasher's dispensers.
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on Sept 29, 2015 14:30:00 GMT -5
Just make sure that whatever your chosen detergent is, that is does NOT contain any bleach. I myself am a fan of liquid Dawn - but only in prepolish & polish - mainly polish in the vibe. Using any detergent in the 1st stage - the grind, to me seems somewhat self defeating as the purpose is to shape the stones & smooth them - not cushion & polish like in the other stages. Just my 2 cents
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mrzulu
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2015
Posts: 245
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Post by mrzulu on Oct 11, 2015 14:53:13 GMT -5
What happens if there is bleach?
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