jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 8:02:35 GMT -5
I let the Borax get on the dry side and it has pressed it self in small cavities.(vibe) it never dried out completely, but did get quite pasty. Quickly filled the hopper with water and ran it for 15 minutes, stones moving but slower. Left them completely covered in water overnight.
Curious what to do ? Did remove a few and soaked them in hot water. That softened it, but the Borax seems slow to dissolve. Anyone ever put them in hot/ boiling water to assist dissolve rate ? Looks like a job for the pressure washer-say not.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 25, 2015 8:31:48 GMT -5
Of course the easy answer is don't move rocks out of stage one with pits and cavities but that's not always possible. I have a short length of hose hooked up in the laundry tubs that is terminated through a very small nozzle so I can use really hot water and a needle stream of water for pesky grit and polish removal. I have heard folks here recommend ultrasonic jewelry cleaners and wondered if my jewelry tumbler that has stainless steel pins in it would work.
Chuck
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Post by cobbledstones on Sept 25, 2015 8:59:34 GMT -5
I use an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for this and am always amazed at how fast it removes polish/borax from small vugs etc. 1-3 minutes in there is all it takes.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 9:18:41 GMT -5
Of course the easy answer is don't move rocks out of stage one with pits and cavities but that's not always possible. I have a short length of hose hooked up in the laundry tubs that is terminated through a very small nozzle so I can use really hot water and a needle stream of water for pesky grit and polish removal. I have heard folks here recommend ultrasonic jewelry cleaners and wondered if my jewelry tumbler that has stainless steel pins in it would work. Chuck Thanks Chuck. Tried boiling a few, no such luck dissolving it. Mechanical spray looks like the way. This load of coral had a lot of pesky micro druzzy cavities throughout the stones. Pet wood with a few fractures. If you ever choose to tumble stones with metal you will probably find metal rubbing off on the stone in a bad way. Take a stainless pin and rub it on a tumbled stone and you will see. I remember the mini washer you describe. Too bad, they were totally wet so I left he lid off in the hot greenhouse. Only four hours later they had dried down too much. Add the fact that the Vibrasonic motor sits directly under the hopper and sure enough gets the hopper hot. Borax water content tricky to figure. Especially with a vibe equipped with baking ability. Dang, they had a fine polish at 10 hours in AO 14K, by 14 hours the problem occurred. They had run 3 days straight in AO 500 w/ one cup sugar/14 pounds covered. The sugar initially gets 'wetter' due to the heat making it flow. After 2 days it starts to loose moisture and gets thicker in a good way. They were well polished in the sugar but the sugar leaves a coating. And the shine is enhanced a bit more using 14K with Borax in short order, like 8 hours, and also cleans the sugar. Again, thanks for the advise.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 9:25:40 GMT -5
I use an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for this and am always amazed at how fast it removes polish/borax from small vugs etc. 1-3 minutes in there is all it takes. I knew it. Guessing the advise would be mechanical spray. Well, no problem except it is a full 14 pound load cobblestones. Oops, you are using an ultrasonic container. Sounding good. Believe wife has one. Holds about a pint or a quart. She is out of town; you know what that means Thanks for that advise.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 25, 2015 9:29:32 GMT -5
Of course the easy answer is don't move rocks out of stage one with pits and cavities but that's not always possible. I have a short length of hose hooked up in the laundry tubs that is terminated through a very small nozzle so I can use really hot water and a needle stream of water for pesky grit and polish removal. I have heard folks here recommend ultrasonic jewelry cleaners and wondered if my jewelry tumbler that has stainless steel pins in it would work. Chuck If you ever choose to tumble stones with metal you will probably find metal rubbing off on the stone in a bad way. Take a stainless pin and rub it on a tumbled stone and you will see. I remember the mini washer you describe. I have to disagree with that one. Every single pendant I have ever wire wrapped has been tumbled with the stones in place and not one issue ever. 3 pound barrel with 1 pound of stainless steel shot, water and a small amount of dawn dish soap. Chuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 9:39:16 GMT -5
If you ever choose to tumble stones with metal you will probably find metal rubbing off on the stone in a bad way. Take a stainless pin and rub it on a tumbled stone and you will see. I remember the mini washer you describe. I have to disagree with that one. Every single pendant I have ever wire wrapped has been tumbled with the stones in place and not one issue ever. 3 pound barrel with 1 pound of stainless steel shot, water and a small amount of dawn dish soap. Chuck Are you running any abrasive when you do the shot tumble ? I can not put my finished tumbles in a stainless colander or the rocks get silver streaks from the stainless. Bought plastic colanders for finished stones for that very reason. Just ran a test. Stainless knife does not leave streaks. But the colander does. Colander seems to be very soft metal. must be metallurgical thing
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 25, 2015 9:55:15 GMT -5
no abrasive just stainless jewelers shot, water and soap. It is gentle enough that I even trust my Petoskey stones in it and no damage.
Chuck
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Post by orrum on Sept 25, 2015 10:21:08 GMT -5
Aluminum collander?
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 25, 2015 11:45:31 GMT -5
If it cannot be mechanically removed I would look for an acid that it would (safely!) react to, since borax is alkaline at about a 9. Works with cerium, we just use vinegar, makes rocks smell like pickles.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 11:48:00 GMT -5
no abrasive just stainless jewelers shot, water and soap. It is gentle enough that I even trust my Petoskey stones in it and no damage. Chuck Got it Chuck. must be gentle to run your wraps in. orrum-colander is stainless restaurant pan used at a steam bar. Probably soft food grade 308 or 309 stainless. Fill it with polished tumbles and metal marks on rocks galore. And hard to remove. Rubbed my 440C stainless knife on a finished tumble and no marks left. Guessing tumbling pins made out of hard stainless. This is the pan:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 12:03:20 GMT -5
If it cannot be mechanically removed I would look for an acid that it would (safely!) react to, since borax is alkaline at about a 9. Works with cerium, we just use vinegar, makes rocks smell like pickles. I hear you Lee. Must be some acid that would do the job, you mention alkaline. We use mild sulfuric acid to remove galvanization. Full strength Muratic does a poor job though. Just saying there may be a specific acid that gets the job done. Will call distributor of borax 'The Chemical Company' in Rhode Island to see what they say, they were out to lunch just now.
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Post by orrum on Sept 25, 2015 13:04:42 GMT -5
Hey Rockoonz that's good info on vinegar to get rid of cerium!
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 25, 2015 14:20:44 GMT -5
orrum We have just dropped cabs into vinegar when there's cerium in druzies or micropits. Doesn't always get it all but it helps.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 14:51:31 GMT -5
I did experiment with store bought Muratic diluted 1 acid to 10 water and experienced calcium carbonate pockets in agates being eaten away. And that makes sense since muratic attacks similar concrete. Certainly vinegar weaker than 1 to 10 muratic, so safer. I did vice the nozzle on the electric pressure washer with a #3 tip and had no problem removing the Borax holding the rock in hand say 6-7 inches away. Spray bearable to fingers(used a glove), so not extreme. 14 pounds of rock would take a while. If it had dried completely this may not work. Got rockpickerforever's pet wood in this batch. She may give me a hard time if I mess them up.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 25, 2015 17:02:53 GMT -5
jamesp, I gave those to you with no strings attached, to do with them as you wished! So they are not my pet wood. I will not give you a hard time if they mess up, lol. I'm sure they'll come out beautifimus!!!!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Sept 25, 2015 17:30:03 GMT -5
jamesp, I gave those to you with no strings attached, to do with them as you wished! So they are not my pet wood. I will not give you a hard time if they mess up, lol. I'm sure they'll come out beautifimus!!!! OMG Those wind/sand polished pet wood nuggets my favorite #1 tumble. Because of the variety and being so solid. They were already rounded by the environment. So added them half way thru coarse grind to make up for wear, too easy. Shined up to the max. Curious, are those common or do you have to work to fill a gallon ? Will do my best to photo them. Really takes 3 photos each to appreciate-end grain/bark side/along the grain. Any way, they are a tumbler's dream.
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taryn
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Member since March 2016
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Post by taryn on Apr 7, 2016 12:40:30 GMT -5
To piggy back on this - what about grit stuck in the vugs/drusy pockets? I have just done Step 1 in my Lot-O (first timer here!) and after rinsing I have lots of grit stuck in a few of the agates. etc. Any advice??
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 7, 2016 12:50:17 GMT -5
To piggy back on this - what about grit stuck in the vugs/drusy pockets? I have just done Step 1 in my Lot-O (first timer here!) and after rinsing I have lots of grit stuck in a few of the agates. etc. Any advice?? Welcome. Glad to have another tumbler around. What do you consider stage one? Stage one is usually considered 30 through 80 grit and none of those should be used in the loto. No miracle way for removing the grit from pockets. Do not let it drey out or it will become cement and impossible to remove. When you are doing your weekly cleanouts put them right into a bowl over water after they are rinsed. Now you can either try a strong stream of hot water or try as stiff bristled brush while they are submerged in the bowl of water. Keep in mind that the loto will never really get rid of pits,vugs and imperfections. Most of us use a rotary tumble for stage one and the rocks are not moved to the vibe tumbler until all imperfections have been removed so grit removal is not an issue. There are some rocks that should not have there natural texture removed. These snakeskin agates were processed through my loto and just high pressure water between each stage to remove grit. Chuck
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taryn
starting to shine!
Member since March 2016
Posts: 38
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Post by taryn on Apr 7, 2016 13:01:25 GMT -5
To piggy back on this - what about grit stuck in the vugs/drusy pockets? I have just done Step 1 in my Lot-O (first timer here!) and after rinsing I have lots of grit stuck in a few of the agates. etc. Any advice?? Welcome. Glad to have another tumbler around. What do you consider stage one? Stage one is usually considered 30 through 80 grit and none of those should be used in the loto. No miracle way for removing the grit from pockets. Do not let it drey out or it will become cement and impossible to remove. When you are doing your weekly cleanouts put them right into a bowl over water after they are rinsed. Now you can either try a strong stream of hot water or try as stiff bristled brush while they are submerged in the bowl of water. Keep in mind that the loto will never really get rid of pits,vugs and imperfections. Most of us use a rotary tumble for stage one and the rocks are not moved to the vibe tumbler until all imperfections have been removed so grit removal is not an issue. Chuck Hi there - to clarify, my step one was 120/220. It's okay if I don't get all the pits smoothed out - they are performs and I like those characteristics - hence straight to the vibe :-) I have a soft brass wire brush but thinking it might be too harsh...? They have dried while searching and posting here so my first step is probably to get them all wet again!
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