dottyt
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2016
Posts: 305
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Post by dottyt on Nov 14, 2016 0:12:40 GMT -5
Okay, I have been tumbling rocks I have bought online and some I have gotten from other people. These have all been ready to go tumbling size rocks, but I also have some that need to be broken down. How exactly does one make little rocks from big rocks? I have a hammer and a chisel, also eye protection. Is there is some method involved? Places that are optimal and not so optimal to hit? I think some people cover the rock with a towel so rocks will not fly everywhere? Do I have to worry about something else? Any guidelines or helpful advise?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 14, 2016 6:48:16 GMT -5
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osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
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Post by osuguy0301 on Nov 15, 2016 20:25:29 GMT -5
I have been breaking up smaller quantities and I use a hand sledge/ crack hammer and put the rock I am busting into a burlap sack so the shards don't fly everywhere. So far it has worked really well but would not be a great method if you need to bust up a lot of rock. Its time consuming getting the rock piece out of the sack so they aren't pulverized.
I get my burlap sacks from Rural King for a $1.99. They hold up pretty decent but holes will eventually tear in them.
Jake
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dottyt
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2016
Posts: 305
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Post by dottyt on Nov 16, 2016 1:11:05 GMT -5
Thanks all! I don't have a large quantity of rocks and none is that big, just too big to tumble, so these ideas should work.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 17, 2016 13:44:14 GMT -5
If you want to invest a few bucks, I would recommend an angle grinder and a diamond blade. I bought a Porter Cable for about $25 off Amazon, and found a 4" segmented blade at my local hardware store for about $8. You can use that to cut the stones vs. hammering them, and you end up with better shapes for tumbling. Less jagged edges, etc. Unless you like that look, in which case, hammer away...
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Post by greig on Nov 26, 2016 9:53:24 GMT -5
I love "dumb questions", as these are the same things that I think about and wonder about the answers.
I have found that some rocks don't like to be smashed and are better to be cut (eg quartz, feldspar, apitite). For those, I use what I have on hand - a tile saw. I can also use the side of the blade on the saw to shape them a little bit.
I find that smashing with a sledge or a chisel can sometimes fracture the rock on the inside. When I do smash rock, I do it outside and alternate between simply smacking them and a chisel. I do it on a rock wall that has a large flat rock on the top. Sometimes pieces fly away, but I have gravel path there, so it just adds to the path if I cannot later find the rock.
I am sure there are better ways, but have not found them.
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Post by 1dave on Nov 26, 2016 10:22:38 GMT -5
Okay, I have been tumbling rocks I have bought online and some I have gotten from other people. These have all been ready to go tumbling size rocks, but I also have some that need to be broken down. How exactly does one make little rocks from big rocks? I have a hammer and a chisel, also eye protection. Is there is some method involved? Places that are optimal and not so optimal to hit? I think some people cover the rock with a towel so rocks will not fly everywhere? Do I have to worry about something else? Any guidelines or helpful advise? A very SMART question! The easiest way is while in the hills, collect tumble sized rocks. Many moons ago I cut a chisel diameter hole in a fair sized piece of plexiglass and chiseled looking through it to lower the amount of fracturing. jamesp has it down pat - even to grinding to pre-shape the pieces to reduce the tumbling time.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 26, 2016 10:40:21 GMT -5
I don't break up large quantities of rock, but I have a good method for smaller rocks. Like Dave, I cut a hole in plastic, but I used an old Tupperware sandwich sized box. I put the box upside down over the rock and insert my chisel through the hole. For smallish rocks, the box completely covers the rock and contains all shrapnel.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Nov 26, 2016 10:41:00 GMT -5
Cutting and grinding can make life easier. Some rocks take to hammering, many do not. Well said Rick: If you want to invest a few bucks, I would recommend an angle grinder and a diamond blade. I bought a Porter Cable for about $25 off Amazon, and found a 4" segmented blade at my local hardware store for about $8. You can use that to cut the stones vs. hammering them, and you end up with better shapes for tumbling. Less jagged edges, etc. Unless you like that look, in which case, hammer away...
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 27, 2016 9:42:34 GMT -5
I love "dumb questions", as these are the same things that I think about and wonder about the answers. I have found that some rocks don't like to be smashed and are better to be cut (eg quartz, feldspar, apitite). For those, I use what I have on hand - a tile saw. I can also use the side of the blade on the saw to shape them a little bit. I find that smashing with a sledge or a chisel can sometimes fracture the rock on the inside. When I do smash rock, I do it outside and alternate between simply smacking them and a chisel. I do it on a rock wall that has a large flat rock on the top. Sometimes pieces fly away, but I have gravel path there, so it just adds to the path if I cannot later find the rock. I am sure there are better ways, but have not found them. I have found that I also really don't like smashing rocks with a hammer. I have purchased agates from several sources that were sold as tumbling rough including some Brazilian agate from The Rock Shed that was definitely nice looking material but had deep fractures in most of the stones making the rough grind take extremely long if I didn't want those cracks to show up in my final product. I also had a tile saw on hand and ended up using it to cut out the cracked areas so I could reduce the tumble time. I also don't like the hammer-broken rough so much because the shapes are often wildly irregular, again making shaping take forever in the tumbler. I had been using the tile saw to cut larger chunks of rough down to tumble sized pieces and also to shape them but I guess I was overloading the motor and ended up burning it out. The tile saw was definitely great for making tumble rough while it lasted. I guess I'm back to the old hammer again. This time I'm trying to be more careful with my hammering and using a chisel to direct the force a little better. It seems to be doing an adequate job so far but I really miss my saw.
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Post by 1dave on Nov 27, 2016 10:13:01 GMT -5
I don't break up large quantities of rock, but I have a good method for smaller rocks. Like Dave, I cut a hole in plastic, but I used an old Tupperware sandwich sized box. I put the box upside down over the rock and insert my chisel through the hole. For smallish rocks, the box completely covers the rock and contains all shrapnel. You are definitely smarter than me. Wish I had thought of that!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 27, 2016 12:52:02 GMT -5
I think I got the idea here.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 27, 2016 13:43:57 GMT -5
If you want to invest a few bucks, I would recommend an angle grinder and a diamond blade. I bought a Porter Cable for about $25 off Amazon, and found a 4" segmented blade at my local hardware store for about $8. You can use that to cut the stones vs. hammering them, and you end up with better shapes for tumbling. Less jagged edges, etc. Unless you like that look, in which case, hammer away... How do you do it safely? I bought an angle grinder from Harbor Freight for about $20 and a 4" diamond cup wheel. My first problem was that the thing spins so darn fast and I was really afraid of getting hit by any part of the wheel. I think the grinder I got runs at 11,000 rpm. Based on a photo that jamesp posted here I made a little guard out of sheet metal and a plastic bucket lid so only a small portion of the wheel was exposed. It worked fairly well until the wheel started getting uneven wear. Once it got a little off balance the whole rig started vibrating more and more violently. Eventually my guard shook to pieces and the grinder went completely out of control flapping around on the ground. The only way I could shut it off was to yank the plug. It scared the heck out of me. Unless I can find a safer way to deal with the grinder I'm using other methods for making tumbler feed.
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dottyt
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2016
Posts: 305
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Post by dottyt on Nov 27, 2016 15:06:44 GMT -5
My first problem was that the thing spins so darn fast and I was really afraid of getting hit by any part of the wheel. I think the grinder I got runs at 11,000 rpm. Based on a photo that jamesp posted here I made a little guard out of sheet metal and a plastic bucket lid so only a small portion of the wheel was exposed. It worked fairly well until the wheel started getting uneven wear. Once it got a little off balance the whole rig started vibrating more and more violently. Eventually my guard shook to pieces and the grinder went completely out of control flapping around on the ground. The only way I could shut it off was to yank the plug. It scared the heck out of me. Thank you for posting this! The idea of more shaped stones going into the barrel sounds wonderful and worthwhile, but this is EXACTLY the sort of thing I thought might happen. I really don't see how a long lasting and safer saw or grinder could be manufactured cheaply. Besides that there is a Club not too far away that is supposed to have a well-stocked shop. It makes more sense for me to go there and use their equipment (and have a bit of in person instruction) than to buy my own equipment. Especially since I do not see myself having a lot of rocks or really big rocks in the near future since my schedule prevents field trips. Unfortunately I also can't visit the Club's shop or go to their meetings at this time. However this might change in the future. Till then I will try the Tupperware and chisel idea. I saw a post where someone did this with a largish sized plastic bin, but the smaller sized container would work for the rocks I have and seems easier. Thanks for all the replies!
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 28, 2016 8:51:35 GMT -5
If you want to invest a few bucks, I would recommend an angle grinder and a diamond blade. I bought a Porter Cable for about $25 off Amazon, and found a 4" segmented blade at my local hardware store for about $8. You can use that to cut the stones vs. hammering them, and you end up with better shapes for tumbling. Less jagged edges, etc. Unless you like that look, in which case, hammer away... How do you do it safely? I bought an angle grinder from Harbor Freight for about $20 and a 4" diamond cup wheel. My first problem was that the thing spins so darn fast and I was really afraid of getting hit by any part of the wheel. I think the grinder I got runs at 11,000 rpm. Based on a photo that jamesp posted here I made a little guard out of sheet metal and a plastic bucket lid so only a small portion of the wheel was exposed. It worked fairly well until the wheel started getting uneven wear. Once it got a little off balance the whole rig started vibrating more and more violently. Eventually my guard shook to pieces and the grinder went completely out of control flapping around on the ground. The only way I could shut it off was to yank the plug. It scared the heck out of me. Unless I can find a safer way to deal with the grinder I'm using other methods for making tumbler feed. I have done it a couple of different ways, and free-handing (holding the grinder in one hand and the stone in the other) works OK, but it is REALLY fatiguing, and I would stop short of calling it safe. This weekend, I did some rough grinding with it and think I found a pretty decent sweet-spot. I took the grinder and "mounted" it in the jaws of my workmate at about a 30-degree angle. Then I finagled a rubbermaid bowl under it and filled it with water, just to where it was touching the blade. I wasn't using a cup wheel, I was using a 4" segmented, scintered diamond blade. That isn't NEARLY as aggressive as a cup wheel, so MUCH less fear about chewing off the ends of your fingers. That actually is about the easiest way I have found to do it. I think moving away from the cup wheel will make it a better experience for you.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 28, 2016 9:00:27 GMT -5
My first problem was that the thing spins so darn fast and I was really afraid of getting hit by any part of the wheel. I think the grinder I got runs at 11,000 rpm. Based on a photo that jamesp posted here I made a little guard out of sheet metal and a plastic bucket lid so only a small portion of the wheel was exposed. It worked fairly well until the wheel started getting uneven wear. Once it got a little off balance the whole rig started vibrating more and more violently. Eventually my guard shook to pieces and the grinder went completely out of control flapping around on the ground. The only way I could shut it off was to yank the plug. It scared the heck out of me. Thank you for posting this! The idea of more shaped stones going into the barrel sounds wonderful and worthwhile, but this is EXACTLY the sort of thing I thought might happen. I really don't see how a long lasting and safer saw or grinder could be manufactured cheaply. Besides that there is a Club not too far away that is supposed to have a well-stocked shop. It makes more sense for me to go there and use their equipment (and have a bit of in person instruction) than to buy my own equipment. Especially since I do not see myself having a lot of rocks or really big rocks in the near future since my schedule prevents field trips. Unfortunately I also can't visit the Club's shop or go to their meetings at this time. However this might change in the future. Till then I will try the Tupperware and chisel idea. I saw a post where someone did this with a largish sized plastic bin, but the smaller sized container would work for the rocks I have and seems easier. Thanks for all the replies! Dotty, agree 10000%. If you have access to actual grinding equipment AND people there who know what they're doing, your end result will be happier. I work with tools enough to be cockier than I should be, and I'm willing to try some things that I probably shouldn't. I am not careless when I do it, but I also understand that what I'm doing sometimes rubs up against being dangerous. If you are not comfortable with power tools, putting your fingers in range of a diamond cup wheel spinning at 3,500RPM could end badly. I wouldn't hold anything in my hand and put it up against that with a cup wheel. I'm less afraid about my fingers, and more afraid about losing a grip and having the rock thrown at my face at 95 MPH. With a segmented blade, I feel relatively "safe," and it is plenty aggressive for shaping for the tumbler. If I need to use the cup wheel, that's on a much larger piece that can be laying on the ground. Here is what I'm talking about: www.amazon.com/Bosch-DB441C-Premium-Segmented-Circular/dp/B0026SS6TQ/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1480341577&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=4%22+segmented+bladeAnother thing that you might like would be a Dremel. This is a bit more of an investment, but if you already have one, just get the extension shaft, and then get some diamond burrs/wheels off Amazon or eBay. I have done this as well. If you do that, you can mount the stone in a vise, and then hold a mister bottle in one hand and the wand in the other. I have also done this in a bowl of water. If you can do it outside, you can do some fine grinding dry, but I recommend a good mask if you do.
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Post by 1dave on Nov 28, 2016 9:04:21 GMT -5
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 28, 2016 9:07:27 GMT -5
Now, THAT'S what I'm talking about!!! I don't quite have the space for that rig, but Tommy likey!!!
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 28, 2016 9:07:45 GMT -5
Grinding down rocks like this is a risky proposition in my book. Please be careful. Whatever you end up doing, make sure you control the dust aspect, the effects of which may not be apparent for years but are a lot worse than a bloody finger or hand.
H
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 28, 2016 9:39:24 GMT -5
Grinding down rocks like this is a risky proposition in my book. Please be careful. Whatever you end up doing, make sure you control the dust aspect, the effects of which may not be apparent for years but are a lot worse than a bloody finger or hand. H Hank, couldn't agree more! I'll be the first to admit that I was completely ignorant to this when I started, and did some dremel cutting and grinding down in my basement shop with no safety goggles or mask. Then I read the thread on here about the toxicity of the dust, and I shan't do that again. E. VER. Respirator, safety glasses and hearing protections should be purchased in the same transaction as a grinder. I wear a hat, too, just to protect my bean from any flying debris. This is absolutely an outdoor sport, and if you don't have the safety gear to go with the tools, don't play the game!
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