mikeyrocks
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Post by mikeyrocks on Dec 27, 2016 0:37:38 GMT -5
Hello Folks, Happy Holidays to all. I have a four of the old Viking vibra tumblers I am trying to get going with larger barrels. I have one with an original 25 lb barrel, that I have been able to get to tumble 5 times now. Required lots of tweaking and effort to pull that off. I am making my belts with 3/16" round urethane belts. I have made a tumble barrel from a 5 gal propane bottle made as one illustrated in an older post from here on RTH. My big problem is getting the Viking to work at all with the propane tank sitting on it even when only 1/2 full. Other thoughts or design ideas for larger barrels for these units are greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any advice or assistance.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 27, 2016 6:11:54 GMT -5
"My big problem is getting the Viking to work at all with the propane tank sitting on it even when only 1/2 full."
The title says the belts are slipping. Is that the problem ?
Making belts for a 3600 RPM motor turning small diameter pulleys would be a concern. Making belts sounds like you have a connection in them. Seems like a bad idea to have a connection on this set up.
The length of the belt is critical. It's stretch to grip properly critical. That machine notorious for eating one piece belts. I just put a new motor in mine due to dry bearings. It stopped eating belts. no idea why.
Have you tried ordering stock belts from Diamond Pacific ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 27, 2016 6:16:03 GMT -5
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Post by MrP on Dec 27, 2016 7:47:36 GMT -5
Hello Folks, Happy Holidays to all. I have a four of the old Viking vibra tumblers I am trying to get going with larger barrels. I have one with an original 25 lb barrel, that I have been able to get to tumble 5 times now. Required lots of tweaking and effort to pull that off. I am making my belts with 3/16" round urethane belts. I have made a tumble barrel from a 5 gal propane bottle made as one illustrated in an older post from here on RTH. My big problem is getting the Viking to work at all with the propane tank sitting on it even when only 1/2 full. Other thoughts or design ideas for larger barrels for these units are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any advice or assistance. mikeyrocks I think there is a difference in the spring setup with the 25# and 35# Viking Tumbler. A 5 gallon tank is way too large for your machine. I made my first tub by cutting apart and rewelding a 20# tank. The second tank is a 10#, 2.5 gal, cylinder that is very close to the size of the first one. That tank is all my 35 lb tumbler will handle and I had to put a new set of springs to get it to work right.
As far as the belts, James seems to be able to make the cheap ones work but I could not so I bought the right ones and have had no problems now. I am not running mine now but had run it 24/7 for 6-8 months straight with no problem.........................MrP
Got it
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mikeyrocks
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Member since November 2014
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Post by mikeyrocks on Dec 27, 2016 10:28:00 GMT -5
Quote.... Making belts for a 3600 RPM motor turning small diameter pulleys would be a concern. Making belts sounds like you have a connection in them. Seems like a bad idea to have a connection on this set
jamesp .... I believe a good while back I mentioned getting bulk urethane belt material from Mc Master Carr industrial supply. 3/16" is about 75 cents per foot and I make my own by heating the ends and joining them that way. Rubber o rings and vacuum cleaner belts are no good for this purpose. I decided not to give DP $6 or $10 per belt unless I had to. Especially when I needed at least ten belts. The other indicator I had about the belts was seeing how one of the old ones joint was coming apart and only had been half fused together.
MrP .... I had planned on checking with DP about springs when they arrive at their building at the Desert Gardens show in a week or so. No I did not know there were different weight models made and it makes sense the difference would be the springs. At least two of my springs have been bent or damaged and I changed them out with others. I do notice some were dipped in red coating and others were dipped in a blue coating. Perhaps they were color coated? I'll ask at DP and report back on that and whatever else I find.
Thank you both for the assistance in this and I'll update my findings as they come in.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 27, 2016 11:06:26 GMT -5
If your belts are slipping you may consider the factory belts designed for the application. Dito if your belts are breaking.
More importantly:
The factory belt material is designed to pull down on the top section with a given tension. The belt tension effects the vibration. Belt length, stretchability has a lot to do with pulling the top down to the springs and effecting the vibration. I would not think of making my own belts for that machine. They run too fast for a joint IMO. Go with one piece molded belt. Just saying and friendly advise.
O-rings have many different durometer ratings and some are designed to be used as drive belts. Then they are called drive belts. But look just like o-rings. Another subject.
Friend told me about a 50 pack of o-rings and they do well enough at $30. They are darn tight and a bit of a challenge to thread on the pulley. When one breaks the vibration way changes because the pull down is half with one belt. It is not long before the 2nd belt breaks. But they seem to have the correct pull down force.
Please keep informed and good luck. Photos of 25 pounder if you get a chance.
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mikeyrocks
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Post by mikeyrocks on Dec 27, 2016 12:33:17 GMT -5
I suspect the DP belts might have a welded or fused joint but I won't know until I can buy one and examine it. Yes one piece molded belts would have less problem than joined belts but I'm not yet convinced they are necessary here. I am in the midst of setting up 4 or 5 units that haven't been used in years. They have 3 different styles of pillow block bearings, etc. I'm working the kinks out of them and trying to push them to their limits at the same time. 10 new pillow block bearings arrive in a few days. The motors have been checked and serviced for starters. I've welded and fused different plastics over the years so I have some experience in that area. Yes urethanes have different durameters...something I am researching in the urethanes for two different projects. One lining tumble barrels and the other using for resin bonding diamond grit. Slow going research for me because my backround is not chemistry and I have too many projects going. It does keep life interesting though in my retirement. Your point on the belts having to pull down and hold the top on while it is jumping and vibrating around is really on point. I had not been taking that vibration into account in the equation. I am having some good success with the belts so it's not all slippage and breaking by any means. I've also found that two of the aluminum belt pulleys had a thin sidewall from being run without the pulleys being lined up correctly. This was a related slippage problem cause that was not immediately noticeable. (It reduces the belt surface contact area on the belt sidewalls) These are a new area of equipment for me and I'm just trying to get up to speed on them.
The other equipment areas are rock saws, trim, slab and chop or drop saws... 3 and 4 ft vibrating and rotating flat laps...and a very large rotating barrel tumbler, cabbing machines. I also do my own auto repairs and rebuilding and some mining. I like odd, interesting machinery and seeing how different folks designed it, and produced it. I especially like to see the different approaches folks used to solve the same problem. All fascinating. Much like rocks and minerals, all similar, no two identical, never boring.
I'm due for some photo tutoring and how to move them more easily and get them posted to various places so there will be photos in the future.
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Post by MrP on Dec 27, 2016 12:57:15 GMT -5
jamesp mikeyrocks I have a new set of belts so I checked them and they are fused or bonded or welded, not sure how they do it.
I do know that which ever way it is it does not break...............................MrP
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 27, 2016 13:23:00 GMT -5
Worn pulleys and out of alignment pulleys will cause belts to wear faster.
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mikeyrocks
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Post by mikeyrocks on Dec 27, 2016 13:52:06 GMT -5
Thank you for checking MrP. Good to know ... then I am on a fairly good track with the economy approach; my belts are under a dollar each.
I've rechecked the machines and one is marked as a VT-40 but no discernible markings on the rest of them that are obvious. After looking at the springs I am not seeing any obvious thickness differences so far. I'll have to put a caliper to them when I have a chance. Also Diamond Pacific will be here soon so I can inquirer about replacements and capacities. They still sell the large barrels for them; a bit spendy .... $400 the last I checked.
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mikeyrocks
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Member since November 2014
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Post by mikeyrocks on Dec 30, 2016 12:42:32 GMT -5
I was able to speak with Don from Diamond Pacific this morning and found out a bit more about the Vibra Sonic units they are designed for a 4 lb to a 28 lb load. There is a 50 lb capacity barrel for about $238 that fits the regular bases ... that VSV-50 barrel comes with a set of overload springs that are used in conjunction with the original springs to boost the capacity to the 50 lb range. The VSV-50 barrel is a complete poly barrel and not aluminum/poly lined. I'll ask more of him about these units when he arrives in Quartzsite in a few days. I am looking for more specific information about the red and blue coatings on the springs and the size units they are intended for.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2016 14:41:58 GMT -5
It seems that 50 pounds would about bottom out the 14 pound springs. Makes good sense. I had heard that Viking has a spring that fits inside the original spring. Poly barrel sounds interesting. Wonder if they make a tall poly barrel rated 14 pounds.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 30, 2016 14:54:15 GMT -5
Oh come on James , with all those gizmos you have come up with , I'm sure you could engineer something . Could one be made from pvc , or would it wear fast ?
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Post by MrP on Dec 30, 2016 16:25:00 GMT -5
It seems that 50 pounds would about bottom out the 14 pound springs. Makes good sense. I had heard that Viking has a spring that fits inside the original spring. Poly barrel sounds interesting. Wonder if they make a tall poly barrel rated 14 pounds. jamesp Mine has the spring in the spring. Didn't know they made a 50lb machine....................................MrP
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2016 16:40:11 GMT -5
It seems that 50 pounds would about bottom out the 14 pound springs. Makes good sense. I had heard that Viking has a spring that fits inside the original spring. Poly barrel sounds interesting. Wonder if they make a tall poly barrel rated 14 pounds. jamesp Mine has the spring in the spring. Didn't know they made a 50lb machine....................................MrP Dual spring eh ? Mine look very old as if original. Maybe they changed to double springs along the way ? Didn't you replace your springs ? Originals were double too ? Seems like the big hopper is 35 pounds.
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Post by MrP on Dec 30, 2016 17:42:50 GMT -5
jamesp Mine has the spring in the spring. Didn't know they made a 50lb machine....................................MrP Dual spring eh ? Mine look very old as if original. Maybe they changed to double springs along the way ? Didn't you replace your springs ? Originals were double too ? Seems like the big hopper is 35 pounds. jamesp Yes I replaced with the same as was on it. Heavy spring with a lighter spring inside. Mine had the 2 small tubs with it when I bought it. There were 2 extra tubs with it but both of them were missing 1 foot. A bolt must have came loose while it was running.........................MrP
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2016 18:10:02 GMT -5
MrPMine looks as if it never had two springs. But sure could have. Welding that broken foot should be tricky. Would cook the urethane. No matter, you made your own tub. A reminder to make sure nuts are tight. My base plate has 2 studs, far left and far right. For 14 pound hopper anyway. They sell two 4 pound tubs that mount on the base plate. Would think it would take 4 studs for them. Maybe there is another base plate for the dual 4 pound set up.
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Post by MrP on Dec 30, 2016 19:20:38 GMT -5
jamesp Yes my plate has 4 grade 8 cap head bolts in it. Took the center ones out so I could run a full width tub..............................MrP
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mikeyrocks
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Member since November 2014
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Post by mikeyrocks on Jan 13, 2017 21:36:51 GMT -5
After a 14 day delay the 50 lb hopper finally arrived in Quartzsite late this afternoon. They weren't in the first two loads from California as expected. The barrel is approx $240 and the base plate to cradle it about the same money. (total is approx $475) So I'll be loading it shortly with a load to run overnight. The 5 gal propane tank barrel I made when loaded with rocks turned out to weigh 85 lbs and I am presuming it was a bit too much weight for the two single belt pulley setup in the design. With replacing all eight springs ... the platform supported the 85 lb load OK. The difficulty seemed to be in belt slippage. I'll be making a set of steel double pulleys that will bring the belt total to 4 belts and believe that will help get better traction and action for the load. I'll post an update after that modification is worked out and tested.
I'll do photos after I get some help learning how to do that thru friends tutoring me.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2017 22:01:12 GMT -5
Don't want to sound repetitive. Still concerned about home made belts from a length standpoint too. Mine have to be stretched pretty tight to get into the pulley grooves. So they are tightly wrapped. If I were asked to make belts I would have to cut them to the exact length for that given durometer rubber-to get the right tension. Low belt tension may = slippage. Thoughts ?
I am pretty sure I can not make my belts slip even if I pushed down on the hopper plate with a good bit of my body weight. But the counterweights are only set on 1.1, so not much off-balance.
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