jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 6:35:26 GMT -5
On the subject of diamonds. If they do last forever(no pun). They better be cleaned off the rocks well. If one comes loose from a rock during finishing....
Grit breaking down is a fortunate thing. Big SiC particles that may scratch rocks will eventually break down.
ETA I know many tumbling folks are very particular about cleanliness.
I must say that I am not. Not by choice but by necessity. Pockets in coral for instance has held hundreds of coarse SiC particles after coarse grind. Too many to pick out. And they mostly fall out in subsequent steps as most of them get jarred loose in the vibe due the vibration. Apparently broken down to oblivion.
I run AO 80 in the vibe(and rotary) after coarse in rotary. Perhaps the coarse AO 80 cleans up any scratches/pits from SiC 30 particles breaking loose.
What if say 200 SiC 46 particles are thrown in at polish ? Is that enough particles to scratch your rocks noticeably ? You would think yes. I only remember one batch of rocks that had scratches after polish and never understood why or what caused them. How many 46 particles does it take - 1 - 2 - 10 - 50 ? How many particles are stuck in your rocks ? Most rocks have pits and cracks. That is a reality.
Me personally, think that the best way to clean rocks coming out of course grind in the rotary is a tablespoon or two of AO 80 in the vibe w/Borax. Or 220, no matter. BECAUSE, you are attacking wedged particles with the mechanical forces of a vibe and laying down the the first finish step at the same time using very little grit and Borax for the soap. Using just soap in the vibe may accomplish the same thing. Why not kill two birds with one stone.
Call it a rock cleaning with finer grit. Do a clean out, and rerun the same grit if you feel it is necessary.
I also think that running coarse SiC in the rotary on the last grit addition for a longer duration of say 2-5 days after it is already broken down beats any clean out we could possibly accomplish. That is equivalent to your rocks being cleaned for 2-5 days. Very intense, let the tumbler do the work. Just clean the cap well during the last run to make sure no large particles are wedged at the seal. All tumblers have a seal.
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 2, 2017 8:36:18 GMT -5
@shotgunner, Y'all don't have BC powder in Cali? Or did you think I meant BC's buoyancy control devises 😂 down here in the south we take our rock gut aspirin powder with a little moonshine 🙊 kills what ails ya! Tip of the day: don't ever walk into a southerners house and drink clear liquid from a Mason jar. It ain't water!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 8:40:09 GMT -5
@shotgunner, Y'all don't have BC powder in Cali? Or did you think I meant BC's buoyancy control devises 😂 down here in the south we take our rock gut aspirin powder with a little moonshine 🙊 kills what ails ya! Tip of the day: don't ever walk into a southerners house and drink clear liquid from a Mason jar. It ain't water! Tame that boy Mel. Lay it on him.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 9:13:30 GMT -5
Any particular ebay vendors you've worked with before that sell this? I'll run the experiment and see what happens. Dave, here is a listing for 100 grams(almost 1/4 pound or 500 carats) of India made diamonds for $20 ppd. I like the way they are shaped in the photo. Description is nebulous though, it seems to infer they can be purchased in sizes of 60 to 200 grit. Or is that a mix ? I could not find a place that says you can insist on only 60 grit...need 60 grit.(prefer 30 or 46 grit for coarse). Anyway, the price is cheap for retail purchase. They are being shipped all the way from India... Recapturing 60 grit is trickier than recapturing 30 grit.(assuming the diamonds do not break down further in the tumbler...) If they were 30 grit I would jump on them. Still looking for other deals. Have a feeling that these in 60 grit would flat out chop your rocks up in a hurry. Question is, will they break down. You would be surprised how little 1/4 pound of diamonds is. www.ebay.com/itm/100g-99-99-Diamond-Powder-Polishing-size-from-60-to200Any-Grit-Mesh-500ct-green-/322393622990?hash=item4b102849ce:g:wbEAAOSwneRXQobT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:02:36 GMT -5
@shotgunner, Y'all don't have BC powder in Cali? Or did you think I meant BC's buoyancy control devises 😂 down here in the south we take our rock gut aspirin powder with a little moonshine 🙊 kills what ails ya! Tip of the day: don't ever walk into a southerners house and drink clear liquid from a Mason jar. It ain't water! We prolly have it here. I'm just previously ignorant of said product! Mel, I love moonshiners. But, why can't I drink from a mason jar. It might not want water??!?!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 10:20:55 GMT -5
@shotgunner, Y'all don't have BC powder in Cali? Or did you think I meant BC's buoyancy control devises 😂 down here in the south we take our rock gut aspirin powder with a little moonshine 🙊 kills what ails ya! Tip of the day: don't ever walk into a southerners house and drink clear liquid from a Mason jar. It ain't water! We prolly have it here. I'm just previously ignorant of said product! Mel, I love moonshiners. But, why can't I drink from a mason jar. It might not want water??!?!
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:44:43 GMT -5
We prolly have it here. I'm just previously ignorant of said product! Mel, I love moonshiners. But, why can't I drink from a mason jar. It might not want water??!?! How do you take such bitter powder? Smoke it? Snort it? Freebase?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:49:59 GMT -5
I see we can buy it locally.
Ill be sticking to ibuprofen pills. Ughh
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 11:07:39 GMT -5
How do you take such bitter powder? Smoke it? Snort it? Freebase? Lots of people dump package in water and chug it. Aspirin not friendly on taste buds. But it is fast acting-no doubt. Been around in the south a long time. Plus, an aspirin pill can cook a hole in a sensitive stomach. Consider diamond. If it does not break down, it could be a serious pollutant in the finishing stages of tumbling. Comments ? Never thought about that. SiC will break down, diamond may not. Could reap havoc in finishing stones...
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 2, 2017 11:07:42 GMT -5
I see we can buy it locally. Ill be sticking to ibuprofen pills. Ughh Seems Jim knows about the stuff 😂😂 @shotgunner, you pour the powder to the back of your throat (Do Not Breath) then pour liquid of choice in and swallow quickly! To much and there goes the lining of your stomach BUT if you prefer moonshine to water don't think a little ole powder will matter 🙊💋
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 2, 2017 11:13:20 GMT -5
I've had about 12 lbs of rough (really rough) in my rotary tumbler now for 3 days with a very course grit (I'm not at home to check but thinking 35/40 grit range) the tumbling action still sounds good but I haven't any patience so thinking about opening her up today just to take a peak! Got my 10" MK303 blade in late yesterday so putting her on today as well and sawing through my Saint Martin findings!! It's like Christmas again an again!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 11:14:53 GMT -5
Ha, good point. Moonshine VS aspirin = rock vs paper
DO NOT BREATH bc powder !!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 11:16:01 GMT -5
Exercise patience. Let em grind and grind. add fresh SiC as warranted.
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 2, 2017 12:33:21 GMT -5
I will jamesp, I'm home now and my grit is 36! I have plenty to do today so I'll just let em keep rollin!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2017 12:47:55 GMT -5
I will jamesp, I'm home now and my grit is 36! I have plenty to do today so I'll just let em keep rollin! 36 is perfect. Anxiously waiting for their completion.
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vera
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
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Post by vera on Feb 4, 2017 16:18:16 GMT -5
James, I love your experiments! The only thing I question on your theory of the diamonds remaining the same size as when initially introduced concerns the fact that they will be grinding themselves down. For many centuries diamond cutters used diamonds to cut other diamonds, so won't the diamonds grind themselves to smaller sizes?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2017 2:58:10 GMT -5
James, I love your experiments! The only thing I question on your theory of the diamonds remaining the same size as when initially introduced concerns the fact that they will be grinding themselves down. For many centuries diamond cutters used diamonds to cut other diamonds, so won't the diamonds grind themselves to smaller sizes? This probably won't be a concern vera. Assume pressure = cutting force quartz will scratch quartz. Only if a fair amount of pressure is applied. diamond will scratch diamond. Only if a fair amount of pressure is applied. If you fill a tumbler with 100% quartz with no hard abrasive the quartz will change shape very little. For the same reason, there is not much pressure in a tumbler to make stones of equal Mohs value cut each other. Dito with diamonds. Check out Vicker hardness below. 100 quartz will scratch 21 fluorite easily, little pressure required. 100/21 = quartz is 5 times harder than fluorite.(according to Vicker test) 1600 diamond will scratch 100 quartz easily, also little pressure is required. 1600/100 = diamond is 16 times harder than quartz.(according to Vicker test) Vicker Scale of Actual Hardness: 1: Talc 3: Gypsum 9:Calcite 21: Fluorite 48: Apatite 72: Orthoclase 100: Quartz 200: Topaz 400: Corundum 1600: Diamond Vicker's test is not an exact representation of hardness but it is closer than Mohs. Diamond is 4 times harder than corundum. Corundum is about the same hardness as our silicon carbide grit. The question still remains, is there enough pressure in the tumbler for the diamonds to cut quartz faster than silicon carbide. The sharper the diamond the better. Sharpness is important for low pressure cutting such as that found in a rotary tumbler. So above discussion requires sharp materials. AND, if the impact forces in a rotary tumbler can break the diamonds then they will loose their effectiveness quickly. So another potential problem. Hope that (theory) answers your question.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2017 10:16:03 GMT -5
Two pads glued together. Going to run them with fresh SiC 30 for a couple of hours and then 12 hours with rocks at 55 RPM to see how the rubber is affected. They come from the factory molded with a thin coating over the diamonds. Use removes the coating and exposes the diamonds due to wear. This is a guinea pig 100 grit pad. Figuring that the full size pad will cause more rubbing action due to it constantly getting wedged in the rocks(log jamming). Seems that the rocks will constantly be pushing on it. Sliding against it. Note bevel ground with 60 grit bench grinder. To no surprise it knocked some of the diamonds out(see little pits). Hopefully the action of the rocks will expose the diamonds and they will stay put in the rubber matrix. Perhaps adding a bit of coarse SiC will assist removing the rubber to expose diamonds.
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