hardroks
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2008
Posts: 5
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Post by hardroks on May 29, 2017 18:37:23 GMT -5
I use a high-speed sander for sanding slabs, nodules, ect. but the vacuum setup doesn't always get all the dust. its a small amount that's missed, but I'd like to put together something better. I use a shop vac now. I do all the sanding and polishing in my basement. anyone have suggestions on how to build a DIY( namely cheap easy to make) h/vac that could be directed outside. budget is a priority.
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Post by gmitch067 on May 29, 2017 20:02:56 GMT -5
I use a high-speed sander for sanding slabs, nodules, ect. but the vacuum setup doesn't always get all the dust. its a small amount that's missed, but I'd like to put together something better. I use a shop vac now. I do all the sanding and polishing in my basement. anyone have suggestions on how to build a DIY( namely cheap easy to make) h/vac that could be directed outside. budget is a priority. I am also interested in this topic. As I do my sanding - and while doing dremel cuts/grinding- I produce a lot of dust and debris - even though I dip my work in a water bath frequently during the process. I have my shop vac hose close-in to catch the cloud but it is very inefficient - a lot of rock dust gets by and sugar-coats everything in my garage... NOT Good (I worry about contaminating my work space). My shop vac motor (which exhausts out the drum side) has a filter bag covering it (inside the drum) but it is probably not a good particle filter. During the day I can open my garage door and use a shop fan to direct the air flow across my work table to the outside. This certainly helps. During the evening hours- here in suburbia- The noise produced would disturb the neighbors…No! No! (Must Not disturb their Waaaa!). I close the garage door and rely solely on the shop vac and my 3M 2097/P100 particulate filter half face respirator to allow me to continue. If there is a better way to do this… I also want to know. Please!!! Note: The garage is still used to park the car. After doing my rock work, I must stow the equipment and collapse the table - it takes about 5 minutes to get the place cleared out and ready for parking. Any hVac solution must also be portable/collapsible/stow-able. Here is my Daughter having fun... Note how much smoke goes to the shop vac hose... very little! The vac does better when hooked directly to the small sander... (She is using 80 grit on the 5" wheel - 220 grit on the belt)
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on May 30, 2017 2:23:01 GMT -5
Full marks on the PPE I think a key contributor to the dust is the speed. I had just the same from a dremel; now I use a pendant bit from a small bench grinder and just keep dipping it so the cut face is wet. That will do until I get a small tap drip-running continuously.
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Post by gmitch067 on May 30, 2017 9:46:42 GMT -5
I am not acquainted with a "pendant " bit. 'Just tried to look it up but got numerous hits detailing a wide range of jewelry making equipment and their attachments. Could you please point me in the right direction? If it cuts down in the dust... then that is a plus!
The only thing I can come up with for hardroks to get rid of dust while working in the basement is a small high speed fan (table fan) duct-taped to a clothes drier collapsible hose (maybe 2-3 hoses inline) stretching from his work area to the basement window (if there is one)... or to an allergy grade air conditioner filter (if the basement is totally enclosed without vents to the outside). The other end of the collapsible hose would draw an intake from just above where the grinding is being done. (see why I never became a Mechanical Engineer like my Pop wanted?? LOL!)
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Post by johnjsgems on May 30, 2017 11:35:15 GMT -5
I had a friend that carved dry with a Dremel. He made a low cost dust filter with a salvaged oven exhaust hood with A/C filters in front. He demonstrated carving at shows with it and no visible dust went through. Used residential hoods are very cheap or free if you catch someone remodeling. You could duct it outside as well.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 30, 2017 11:44:14 GMT -5
I had a friend that carved dry with a Dremel. He made a low cost dust filter with a salvaged oven exhaust hood with A/C filters in front. He demonstrated carving at shows with it and no visible dust went through. Used residential hoods are very cheap or free if you catch someone remodeling. You could duct it outside as well. years ago I bought the 2 hp harborfreight dust collector to suck dust and chips when using my wood lathe. I didn't like the amount of fine dust that went through the bags. so I got rid of them put a dryer vent in the wall of my garage and blew it outside. worked good except in the winter when it blew all the heat out. it was a little loud but not as much as a shop vac.
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Post by gmitch067 on May 30, 2017 15:07:25 GMT -5
How far above the work area does the oven exhaust hood (or dust collector) need to be - to be effective? As you can see from the pics above, I do not have a fixed work bench large enough to devote to a grinding area - I must use a small folding table out away from the garage wall.
I guess I could put an exhaust hood on a pulley arrangement that can be lowered from the overhead during grinding, and then retract it back up so it clears the top of the car at night. if the filter(s) can not handle the load, I could use a collapsible exhaust hose to reach the wall.
Thank you for the good advice! I hope Hardroks finds this as useful as well.
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on May 30, 2017 15:14:04 GMT -5
I am not acquainted with a "pendant " bit. 'Just tried to look it up but got numerous hits detailing a wide range of jewelry making equipment and their attachments. Could you please point me in the right direction? If it cuts down in the dust... then that is a plus! Flex shaft ... my bad Yeah I borrowed the term from jewellery making: next best thing Dremels are just too fast and don't have the required torque Micro bench grinders can run slow and slower with low inertia / have variable speed & you can wet the cutting disk / shaft without fear of frying unless you're making a really bad job of it.
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Post by gmitch067 on May 30, 2017 15:23:22 GMT -5
I LIKE that! Gotta do some research on 115VAC - 60Hz models before I jump in and buy one. Thank you++!
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 30, 2017 22:15:52 GMT -5
I am not acquainted with a "pendant " bit. 'Just tried to look it up but got numerous hits detailing a wide range of jewelry making equipment and their attachments. Could you please point me in the right direction? If it cuts down in the dust... then that is a plus! Flex shaft ... my bad Yeah I borrowed the term from jewellery making: next best thing Dremels are just too fast and don't have the required torque Micro bench grinders can run slow and slower with low inertia / have variable speed & you can wet the cutting disk / shaft without fear of frying unless you're making a really bad job of it. that looks suspiciously like the hf model www.harborfreight.com/bench-grinder-with-flex-shaft-43533.html
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Post by morerockspleaz on May 31, 2017 7:49:29 GMT -5
I second or third the exhaust fan. I use fans, open door, although not always practical a leaf blower at the end of the work session. Of course everything has to with stand the force of the leaf blower. Mask absolutely. Ventilation a must.
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Post by johnjsgems on May 31, 2017 9:04:38 GMT -5
He built a wooden box that held the exhaust fan vertical with air filters in front of the fan. The duct opening pushed air out the back. I think he had two air filters but the pleated filters would catch more dust. The boxed fan unit was placed on the table alongside where he worked so very portable.
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Post by morerockspleaz on May 31, 2017 14:12:21 GMT -5
That's a great idea with the exhaust fans and filters. Hmm thinking I could do that myself. Nice.
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Post by youp50 on May 31, 2017 20:21:11 GMT -5
How far above the work area does the oven exhaust hood (or dust collector) need to be - to be effective? As you can see from the pics above, I do not have a fixed work bench large enough to devote to a grinding area - I must use a small folding table out away from the garage wall. I guess I could put an exhaust hood on a pulley arrangement that can be lowered from the overhead during grinding, and then retract it back up so it clears the top of the car at night. if the filter(s) can not handle the load, I could use a collapsible exhaust hose to reach the wall. Thank you for the good advice! I hope Hardroks finds this as useful as well. Look around for a magnifying glass and circular florescent light thing, I have one that clamps to the work bench. One should be able to attach a flex hose Redgreen style (Ductape).
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Post by gmitch067 on May 31, 2017 21:02:50 GMT -5
Interesting idea Youp50. That is a good way to direct light on your work at the same time as getting the ventilation intake close enough to draw away the dust. One problem though... I do my grinding over a water bath - dipping my work in frequently. As it is, I must stop every 15 minutes to wash off my face shield. Imagine what the round fluorescent light and magnifier is going to look like! LOL!
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Post by youp50 on Jun 1, 2017 3:08:16 GMT -5
I would remove the light and use the arm to hold and place the suction hose where needed. The if the model you get is like mine, the arm is too weak too hold a hose and the light/magnifier at the same time.
The trouble with a shop vac is they are meant to pull a vacuum through a small hose. When one hooks up a vac to a larger hose they may not move the volume of air needed to evacuate the dust. I would try to find a used/usable ventilation fan from a furnace. By design they run quiet and move lots of air. Using one in the heating and cooling season creates another set of problems. It would probably be best to suck through a HEPA filter before exhausting back into the work space. The part of silica dust that gets you is small. The filter could be removing visible dust and let by the killer dust that is too small to see.
I would find a local HVAC(Heating Ventilation And Cooling) person and explain my needs and willingness to barter gemstone jewelry... They likely discard what you need on a weekly basis.
It pleases me to see your daughter decked out in adequate PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). Now you need to deal with the residual dust.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jun 1, 2017 8:28:28 GMT -5
I didn't know about the silica particle sizes (!!!). The HEPA filter is certainly a good idea- and looks to be too important to ignore.
A small/quick solution to my, and Hardroks, problem just got more complicated at the fan end of the setup, with the setup becoming less portable and collapsible. The fan and particle/HEPA filters will have to be wall mounted (ideally ducted to the outside - then HEPA filter not necessary). The fan's intake hose (collapsible dryer hose going from the workstation to the fan) can still be portable - dangling from the overhead and directed by the spring loaded magnifier/light arm clamped to the work table.
It looks like my nighttime grinding and cutting will have to cease until I get this problem ironed out. Even so, my Daughter and I will still wear the PPE gear, and utilize a shop fan to blow across the table and out the garage door. Thank you+++
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Post by gmitch067 on Jun 2, 2017 23:02:11 GMT -5
Hi Hardroks from Wisconsin... 'Just wanted you to know that this thread's topic is still being worked on - to what I hope will be a workable solution. I will be posting this project in another area of this Forum (where Projects are posted with lots of pretty pictures to prove their veracity. LOL!)... BUT... I will notify you first in this (YOUR) thread where to view my work - or more accurately OUR work - as most of my ideas were guided by the other member's advice and inputs (thank you all!). I do not work fast and I am not all that handy with tools, so it might take a few days/weeks to develop it into a working solution... But Hey... We are Rock Tumblers!!! Patience is part of the hobby! I am putting some pieces and parts together to create an overhead stove vent hood that is mounted to a portable frame. The frame/vent hood will sit atop my small work table and catch the dust cloud as I work below. It will then exhaust through a HEPA filter back into the closed garage or basement. I bought the vent/fan unit at the nearby Lowes - expensive... ~$100... But I wanted one that had a good high airflow driven by a very quiet fan (140 CFM). The fan is designed for continuous operation and utilizes a rotating squirrel cage of blades instead of a noisy propeller. I figure that (especially in an enclosed room like a basement) running the vent unit for a half hour AFTER working with the rocks will be enough time to cycle the room's air through the HEPA filter to remove any harmful silica dust ( ). To test all this out... My frame is one of my geriatric walkers (SEE... old men are good for something!). The vent/fan unit will attach to the underside of the walker's seat - for now with bungee cords. That will put the vent/fan unit about 2 ft above my dremel grinding area. The vent/fan unit exhausts to a 6" hose port, on which I plan on mounting a sheet metal pre-fab thingie that has a 6" hose fitting on one end and a 12"x6" rectangular opening on the end (like you see in floors with heater vent openings - no grill work though). (NOTE: LOTS of Duct Tape, tie wraps, and bungee cords will be harmed during this creation!!! 'Can't destroy my walker though... I might need it later!) I ordered a HEPA filter from Amazon (~$33) that had one side dimension of ~12" and a length of ~16" - a little scissor work and duct tape will create a couple of filters to go on the exhaust (one will be a spare). The filter comes with a thin charcoal activated pre-filter that gets the heavy stuff first. There were cheaper replacement filters for various commercial HEPA filter air purifiers on the market, but they did not fit the exhaust opening and would cut down on the surface coverage - which would probably cut the 140 CFM airflow down a little (I think the HEPA filter alone might do that too, but it is a necessary evil). Question to members: Should I ditch the charcoal pre-filter in favor of using a regular HVAC allergen air filter (cut down to size) as a pre-filter before the HEPA filter? (or... will that cut down in the overall CFM to much?) The vent/fan even has a light fixture that I can utilize 2 energy efficient bulbs in. There is a plastic light cover that will protect the bulbs and can be easily cleaned of rock splatter. I still have to figure out the electrical connections though... lots of wires to hook up, users manual to read, and switches to purchase still. I DID purchase a 3-prong 16-gauge 75 ft. extension cord that I can chop off the female end and wire up as a power cord (I would not make it in the construction industry! LOL!). More to follow... with time...
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Jun 3, 2017 0:45:27 GMT -5
Inhalation of rock dust should be taken very seriously. Rock dust containing silica can cause silicosis. I've know of two people who have died from it. It's a nasty way to go! It's best to have a water drip system on any rock grinding being done. Keeping it plenty wet will help but it should be noted that inhaling water mist that contains rock dust can still be harmful. Wear a professional grade dust mask like the ones auto body shop guys use when doing body filler sanding. (These are the ones I use www.zoro.com/3m-disposable-respirator-n95-universal-pk20-8210plus/i/G3205781/?q=3M+8210plus ). And use mechanical ventilation (vented through a filter to the outdoors if possible). If using a shop vac, the larger the horse power and CFM rating, and the larger the diameter of the hose the better. And inside the shop vac also use the optional filtration bags made for drywall dust collection. And if you're still noticing rock dust accumulating in your shop you may want to look into getting a small air filtration system like the ones used in small woodworking shops. woodworker.com/search.asp?search=air+filtrationLarry C.
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Post by spiceman on Jun 3, 2017 17:18:13 GMT -5
I applied for a job on a new technology, that's what they said. HVAC the system would spray a fine mist of foam to seal all little gaps. It sounds like a good idea but don't know how the company is doing or did. About 6 years ago.
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