jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 13:17:12 GMT -5
1dave challenged me to try softer abrasives on softer stones. Could not resist. I had called a garnet abrasive company for a sample a good while back. They sent me this 1/2 gallon sample. It is garnet grit 260 to 320 mixed. It is actually used in the water filtration industry. Whatever. Starting fluorite yesterday at 9AM looked like this basically straight out of coarse grind. Here is the fluorite after 26 hours in the vibe. It is still running. Hopefully polish will continue to improve. Probably waiting on the AO 14,000 to break down further. There is more. I am stunned by the garnet. It removed the polish off of all Mohs 7 media and stones like coral and softer obsidian in several hours. That tells how aggressive it is. Garnet is feisty no doubt. But it is no comparison to aluminum oxide, it is far harder and far tougher. So it breaks down quicker that AO. That being said, running say 60% Mohs 7 stones with garnet 300 breaks it down much quicker and imparts a finish to target stones much quicker. You need Mohs 7 or ceramic media to break down the abrasive. THE SOFT ROCK WILL NOT BREAK IT DOWN. Without breakdown you must do many steps of abrasives. I am not trying to speed the process. I am trying to get the job done fast to reduce the chance of frosting the soft stones. The longer those soft stones stay in the vibe the higher the risk of frosting. That simple. In addition to the garnet which easily chops off the coarse grind marks off of soft fluorite and maybe obsidian in a few hours AO 14,000 was added at the start. So this run was done with a blend of abrasives. Coarser garnet 300 and much harder AO 14,000. Soft coarse abrasive and hard polish abrasive. Basically coarse grinding and then polishing toward the end at the same time. AO 14,000 is almost indestructible. It is there when the garnet is disintegrated. Pumice was also added but it is doubtful that it had much abrasive effect, but helps make a protective slurry to prevent frosting. Another bonus, the Mohs 7 stones mixed in are getting a fine polish. Probably due to the aO 14,000. The obsidian is lagging. Maybe by the end of the day or tomorrow the obsidian will polish. The recipe is on the other fluorite tread.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 13:19:44 GMT -5
Here is recipe and notes on yesterday's fluorite post for 14 pounds in Vibe Started 9AM 10/17 2 tbsp garnet 300 2 tbsp 0-1/2 pumice 1 tbsp AO 14,000 1 tbsp Borax Will garnet 300 remove Mohs 7 shine and if how long. How long to remove polish from polished glass. Will garnet 300 remove bruises on added bruised obsidian Garnet 300 breakdown time Will AO 14,000 survive to polish. Polish reusable so how long does it last. Seperation test to see if garnet 300 is rounded or disintegrated. Brown medium 4 hour slurry, Mohs 7 still loosing polish to worse than matte, both heated and not heated flat Polished glass totally with dead flat finish. Obsidian totally flat no reflection Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/80747/fluorite-obsidian-mohs-ao-synopsis#ixzz4vswBh19Q
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 13:27:06 GMT -5
Tumbled overseas. Happy stones.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 13:37:57 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 13:40:47 GMT -5
The fluorite goes thru some real ugly phases on it's way to polish. It may not polish to perfection under any conditions.
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Post by captbob on Oct 18, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
Place IS just too darn quiet without him. Someone needs to make sure to dust the spiderwebs off now and then. Do have a question, where are you getting your fluorite rough?
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Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 18, 2017 15:57:11 GMT -5
Watching and waiting, jamesp. My Photoshop jokes may just have lit a fire under you. No holds barred with this experiment.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 18, 2017 17:44:14 GMT -5
James, how nice of you to serve Randy his crow in a pie, lol. Chances are good it has been cooked to the recommended temperature for poultry, 165 degrees internal temperature, lol.
According to an old (June 9, 2009) National Geographic post Crow Meat Comes Back -- Boosts Sexual Potency? -
James, maybe you are doing him a favor? lol.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 18:19:50 GMT -5
James, how nice of you to serve Randy his crow in a pie, lol. Chances are good it has been cooked to the recommended temperature for poultry, 165 degrees internal temperature, lol.
According to an old (June 9, 2009) National Geographic post Crow Meat Comes Back -- Boosts Sexual Potency? -
James, maybe you are doing him a favor? lol.
Not kidding with you Jean, my next door neighbors growing up in suburbia Atlanta were from S. Georgia. Kinda well-to-do country folks. She, the wife had a chicken wire trap in the backyard with a stick to prop it and sting tied to deck. She baited with bread and would pull the string/stick and catch starlings. And she made STARLING PIE ! Gag on a maggot. <gag> <gag> lol. They were country folks. And apparently that is what they do. Starling about as nasty as a critter can get. Always eating out of garbage in the big city. Doubt Randy has any problems w/his libido being a mere youngster. Wife probably carries a stick to keep him down.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 18:27:18 GMT -5
Place IS just too darn quiet without him. Someone needs to make sure to dust the spiderwebs off now and then. Do have a question, where are you getting your fluorite rough? Remember stonemaster499 ? He sent it to me Bob. It was from Madagascar, stonemaster owned a rock/tumbling operation there. He wanted red clay to experiment with. He said Madagascar is about all red clay. I swapped clay for fluorite. and by the way those pieces I tumbled were some of the best in a whole MFRB. There is way better fluorite out there. Maybe in Madagascar. China and Ceylon are supposed to have fine fluorite. Or buying crystals often gives you AAA w/no fractures but costly. Agree about Cliff. He kept things stimulated lol.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 18:33:05 GMT -5
Watching and waiting, jamesp. My Photoshop jokes may just have lit a fire under you. No holds barred with this experiment. Heck, I've been hellbent to do some soft stuff Randy. I did a giant long experiment on obsidian long ago on this forum. I really failed at obsidian but learned a whole bunch about abrasives and slurry. I must have called a dozen abrasive companies asking for samples. And picked the engineers brains. They would send 1 to 10 pound bags and cans and even pay the postage. Got 2 whole shelves full of all kinds. Yes, your approach may have built a little fire under my butt. ha
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 20:17:34 GMT -5
Garnet/AO 14,000 mix at 35 hours. Still running. Polish improving on all stones. Agate, white corals, obsidians, fluorite, soft rhyolite. Heated rhyolite by far the dullest of the bunch. But it is harder than fluorite. strange.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 18, 2017 20:55:52 GMT -5
Bet this Mexican calcite will be a challenge. Really soft. Should coarse tumble in a day or two.
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 19, 2017 6:44:52 GMT -5
Calcite would lend itself to being polished with muratic. Run them on 220 until well rounded, then dip them for a bit in the acid. They will take on a nice shine with an almost waxy feel. Used to use muratic to clean quartz from one of the mines in Ark, stopped collecting there as I do not like working with the acid, and the fumes are bad news.
See the acid-polished calcite at rock shows all the time.
Henry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 19, 2017 8:49:00 GMT -5
Calcite would lend itself to being polished with muratic. Run them on 220 until well rounded, then dip them for a bit in the acid. They will take on a nice shine with an almost waxy feel. Used to use muratic to clean quartz from one of the mines in Ark, stopped collecting there as I do not like working with the acid, and the fumes are bad news. See the acid-polished calcite at rock shows all the time. Henry Calcite being alkaline makes it vulnerable to acid. wow Maybe this calcite has been artificially colored ? Never know these days. Ebay seller says it came from Mexico. Gotta try it with tumbling via vintage lapidary experimentation Henry. If it fails which is likely then maybe the muriatic will get it done. Believe it is too soft to tumble, texture almost like chalk. These chips are really shiny. Maybe they used muriatic on them ? I broke one and it has a shiny face at the break...
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Post by orrum on Oct 19, 2017 9:41:32 GMT -5
Great thread James! Hank that's a good point on muriatic acid! I threw some pretty calcite of various colors into a tumbler with a mix of other stones last year. I let it roll my standard month or so with 60/90 and then checked it. Honestly the calcite was gone!!! LOL Oh well, maybe I get more snd try the acid trick!
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Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 19, 2017 9:52:39 GMT -5
James, how nice of you to serve Randy his crow in a pie, lol. Chances are good it has been cooked to the recommended temperature for poultry, 165 degrees internal temperature, lol.
According to an old (June 9, 2009) National Geographic post Crow Meat Comes Back -- Boosts Sexual Potency? -
James, maybe you are doing him a favor? lol.
Doubt Randy has any problems w/his libido being a mere youngster. Wife probably carries a stick to keep him down. She's not the violent type, Jim. More apt to play the dead possum trick.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 19, 2017 10:45:02 GMT -5
Garnet is variable. Aluminum oxide content variable from 5 to 25%. This garnet abrasive was the high content almandine garnets at 26% Kaolin has aluminum oxide about 30 to 35%. Felspar has a high aluminum oxide content and lots of clay has fairly high felspar content. Hard to say if the aluminum oxide content in these materials is slowing down breakdown times. Al2O3 is common. Hard to find abrasives that are free of aluminum oxide. i believe pumice has little aluminum oxide but it is too soft for obsidian. Maybe if you removed the hard media and ran 100% soft stones the pumice would last longer and get the job done.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 19, 2017 10:51:00 GMT -5
Doubt Randy has any problems w/his libido being a mere youngster. Wife probably carries a stick to keep him down. She's not the violent type, Jim. More apt to play the dead possum trick.
Mine used to yawn. Serious mood kill. Wait a few years, often their interests increase substantially and the chase may reverse. Milk it man. Become a slave master, yeah !
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 19, 2017 11:02:21 GMT -5
Whenever I see irregular pieces of Calcite with a shine I know it,s had an acid bath. I suspect that some folks are also treating clusters with the same bath or they are spraying the acid on, then washing it off. That way they could control the degree of etching. Have a lot of Calcite from the Mercury Mines between Lajitas and Terlingua collected 25 years ago or so. Most of it does not have a high luster and could use a light bath to shine it up. Have debated doing that but have hesitated as I am not sure I would sell it as natural. Probably would use the word "enhanced with acid". A lot of the Calcite crystal from Terlingua have the phantoms, kind of nice.
Good luck with Calcite tumbling, 220 and check every 6 hours or so, maybe a good bit of clay.
Henry
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