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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 18, 2018 16:26:16 GMT -5
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Sept 18, 2018 16:49:53 GMT -5
I'm curious about the vacuum method too but not even sure what we're talking about. Does it require a chamber device or something like a vacuum sealed bag? He sets the slab or preform in a plastic tray, paints it with Hxtal, and puts it in a vacuum chamber. A vacuum pump removes the air from the chamber. He has a glass bell jar and silicone seal on a flat base hooked up to the pump. Release the vacuum & the Hxtal gets pulled into the pores & fractures. He removes the tray from the chamber & does the next slab(s). It's easier to stack multiple trays under the bell jar because it sits on a platform, as opposed to having to reach into a deep steel pot. My chamber is a steel pot with a silicone seal around the rim, & a thick glass plate for a lid. I've used it with Cactus Juice to stabilize porous stones such as chalk Turquoise & Chrysocolla. I picked up a bell jar at a thrift store & will make a base for it. Lynn |
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
Member is Online
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 18, 2018 20:04:06 GMT -5
Couple of question for zarguy or anyone else who uses Hxtal - first of all how exacting are you when mixing? I'm reading the instruction sheet that goes with it and it is highly recommending using a digital scale because the stuff is "very particular" about it's mixture ratio and "measuring by volume is very inexact." Secondly and sorry if I missed anything about this in the earlier conversation but how well does this stuff work on general stabilization? IE: if I do the heat method and apply it over some tiffany stone that is too soft in places to work with, can I expect stabilizing type results like with Opticon? I use the Michael Hoover method and find mixing isn't too critical. I've had two problems however; using too much or too little hardener. With too much the HXTAL hardens too quickly and can't penetrate as deeply as it can if it hardens slowly. But too little hardener prevents it from setting up properly. It remains permanently sticky. The old HXAL can be removed by soaking it in acetone for a couple of days. I haven't tried using more hardener but that might work. The ideal mix should require at least a week to harden so it can really soak in while still fluid. Vacuum will help but my vacuum chamber needs an overhaul so I haven't tried it yet. My measurements aren't very precise. I use an eye-dropper which sometimes is a little too "generous." (If you use that method be SURE to have separate droppers for Part A and Part B). A little practice will soon give you an idea of the proper amounts. I mix it on a small sheet of aluminum foil with a flat toothpick. Re Cost: it looks very expensive but if you need to stabilize a lot of slabs the stuff really goes a long way. I spread it generously using an old popsicle stick and I've really been surprised at how little is used per slab to get good results. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 27, 2018 11:15:38 GMT -5
I finally bit the bullet and ordered some. I will try doing preforms in a mason jar vacuum sealer first. Later, maybe I'll get a proper vacuum sealer. But, I'm sure a slab size one will be pretty steep.
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Sept 27, 2018 11:36:47 GMT -5
Congrats. I hope your experience is as successful as mine.
Don't forget the heat lamp variation as well. It's the only way I've used HxTal so far.
Check out thrift stores for thick glass bowls that may double as bell jars.
Lynn
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 27, 2018 11:39:37 GMT -5
Congrats. I hope your experience is as successful as mine. Don't forget the heat lamp variation as well. It's the only way I've used HxTal so far. Check out thrift stores for thick glass bowls that may double as bell jars. Lynn Thanks! |
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Post by sophia13 on Sept 27, 2018 22:23:35 GMT -5
Silly question. What material is most suitable for stabilization? I have seen some flaky, some with open cracks and some that seemed fine when I slabbed but after a day crumbled into small pieces that I didn't expect? Thanks for any reply.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 28, 2018 9:30:26 GMT -5
Any stone that has hairline fractures or has areas that may be soft and porous and may undercut are good candidates. A stone that has so many cracks and fractures that will detract from the appearance of the stone, even if it is stabilized, would not be a good candidate, imo. I only use Hxtal on stones that are worth spending the time and the cost of the Hxtal on them. Dino bone is a good example. Sometimes there are fractures in the stone and voids in the cells that detract from the overall appearance when it is polished, but once treated is difficult to tell where they were. If a crack is too large and it is filled, you will still see where the crack was. Depending on the type of stone and the pattern, it may or may not be worthwhile to treat it. It's kind of a personal call. I usually will treat stones that are more valuable and harder to get a hold of. It makes no sense to me to treat a common, readily available stone.
As always, if you treat a stone and sell it, you must disclose that the stone has been treated.
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 29, 2018 15:23:29 GMT -5
I got the hxtal really fast!! I expected to wait longer. But, it did ship from NC. Why I had to pay 14.00 for shipping is beyond me. It was packaged well, though. I have already done a test of it.
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Sept 29, 2018 15:41:44 GMT -5
Why I had to pay 14.00 for shipping is beyond me. It was packaged well, though. Yeah I got a little 'rubbed' about that too when they could have slipped it in a SFRB for half that cost but I think maybe they have to use UPS or FedEx because of the liquid chemical nature of the product? USPS is touchy about stuff like that... I don't know. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 29, 2018 16:14:54 GMT -5
Why I had to pay 14.00 for shipping is beyond me. It was packaged well, though. Yeah I got a little 'rubbed' about that too when they could have slipped it in a SFRB for half that cost but I think maybe they have to use UPS or FedEx because of the liquid chemical nature of the product? USPS is touchy about stuff like that... I don't know. That's what I figured, too. It probably had to go ground. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 29, 2018 16:15:50 GMT -5
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karin
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2020
Posts: 1
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Post by karin on May 29, 2020 14:51:08 GMT -5
So I am curious - I have acquired a larger dino piece that is clearly fratured... Will Hxtal using heat work/penetrate far into the rock?
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Post by rockjunquie on May 29, 2020 14:58:00 GMT -5
So I am curious - I have acquired a larger dino piece that is clearly fratured... Will Hxtal using heat work/penetrate far into the rock? Welcome! Is it a slab or chunk? Hxtal does penetrate well. Not sure how deep it would go into a big chunk. Also, it will not fill voids. It will fill fine fractures, but not wide cracks. |
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Post by knave on May 29, 2020 19:38:05 GMT -5
Very interesting reading. I enjoyed your thread as well rockjunquie. Thank you. |
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rockincatlady
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2021
Posts: 2
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Post by rockincatlady on Mar 15, 2023 19:29:10 GMT -5
This has been so helpful!!! I purchased hxytal and have been afraid to use it. I have several dino cabs as well as A LOT of extremely large PW slabs waiting to be polished. I'm so happy I read this!!
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