jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2017 13:33:20 GMT -5
The rocks on the outside of the circle were probably done in the vibe in 48 hours using AO 80 and agate media. Fast polish. The center stone without a polish was also done 48 hours but with AO 220 and smaller glass media. I would have figured the AO 220 would have reached polish sooner.; looks like it is 4 to 6 days out. Blaming the softer/smaller glass media. The blue glass was the media for the not polished stone: So I will rerun the AO 220. This time using the two outside stones out of the rotary in course grit. And using the agate media. Same run, only the media changed. I will record time to polish. Guessing it will be less than 48 hours. Two outside stones. Same beginning point as unpolished stone above. IMO, the harder Mohs 7 media is primarily responsible for faster breakdown of the AO 220. Verses the Mohs 5 glass. Other factors could be that the glass is smaller and lighter in weight.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2017 13:49:13 GMT -5
It does not stop there.
Agate/quartz media weighs 165 pounds per cubic foot
Cheap ceramic media weighs 65 pounds per cubic foot
Expensive ceramic media weighs 130 pounds per cubic foot
Denser ceramic media is used for faster action on parts being de-burred and improved surface finish. The quartz/agate media is more dense than the densest ceramic media.
ROYSON LW LIGHT WEIGHT CERAMIC MEDIA USED WHEN THE HIGHER DENSITY OF REGULAR CERAMIC MEDIA WILL BEND OR WARP A PART. GOOD CUTTING ACTION. LEAVES PART WITH A GOOD FINISH. 65 LBS. PER CUBIC FOOT.
ROYSON SC A SILICON CARBIDE BASED FORMULATION CONTAINING NO ALUMINUM OXIDE. GOOD CUTTING ACTION WITH A LONG LIFE. RECOMMENDED FOR PARTS THAT CAN NOT HAVE ANY ALUMINUM OXIDE IMPREGNATION. 95 LBS PER CUBIC FOOT.
ROYSON HDP A NON ABRASIVE, HIGH DENSITY FORMULATION USED FOR BURNISHING AND BRIGHTENING PARTS. VERY LONG LASTING. REQUIRES A BREAK IN PERIOD FOR BEST FINISHES. USED FOR MICROSURFACING. 120 LBS. PER CUBIC FOOT.
ROYSON HDC A HIGH DENSITY FORMULATION USED FOR BURR REMOVAL AND IMPROVEMENT OF SURFACE FINISH. GOOD WEAR RATE. LEAVES THE PART WITH SMOOTH BRIGHT SURFACE. 130 LBS. PER CUBIC FOOT
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
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Post by ubermenehune on Nov 14, 2017 14:04:32 GMT -5
I've performed similar experiments using ceramic tile (not as dense of ceramic tumbling media), obsidian, and common opal. None of which performed as well as agate media or ceramics from the Rock Shed.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2017 18:31:27 GMT -5
I've performed similar experiments using ceramic tile (not as dense of ceramic tumbling media), obsidian, and common opal. None of which performed as well as agate media or ceramics from the Rock Shed. OK then, and obsidian is basically glass. Ceramic media is harder than agate, but that may not make much difference as the agate is probably hard enough to break down AO w/little effort. It looks like a company is going to send me about a 20 pound sample of super dense ceramic media, cylinders with 30 degree angles. They price it by the 1000 pounds, and I believe it is very pricey at $7.50 per pound in those large quantities. It is a bit on the small side for my liking. I would have preferred 3/8" diameter and 5/8" long. Getting 5/16 X 9/16 long. I bought 100 pounds of #4 grit almandine abrasive garnets. Filled my 14 pound vibe hopper and it weighed 22 pounds due to the 3.8 grams/cu.cm. density. Problem with them is they were too small at BB size. Bigger media hammers harder than small media. The media size is a big player in a vibe when it comes to breaking grit down. I would think someone has come up with a ratio. Like media should weigh 1/4 of the average rock you are tumbling or something like that. It looks like you had better luck with the higher Mohs hardness materials.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2017 10:58:28 GMT -5
16 hours in with agate media and AO 220 and am way ahead of 48 hours with glass media and AO 220. I know now not to use glass for media in the vibe.
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aimeesrockworks
spending too much on rocks
I really do look like my avatar... it kinda freaks me out.
Member since December 2010
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Post by aimeesrockworks on Nov 16, 2017 11:05:18 GMT -5
Only on one cup of coffee, so forgive the possibly silly question.... Are you saying the harder media is working better because it breaks down the grit/polish faster? Or because it's heavier than the glass so it has a better motion in the barrel?
I was always under the impression that a softer material in a tumbler would simply disappear if tumbled with a harder (i.e. I shouldn't put obsidian in with agate) but I've currently gotten the closest to good polished obsidian after giving up and tossing in a few chunks with a mix of agate, jasper and aquarium gravel.
(Now I'll go check on that obsidian in the polish and it will probably be frosted... just to prove me wrong.)
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 16, 2017 13:45:35 GMT -5
Only on one cup of coffee, so forgive the possibly silly question.... Are you saying the harder media is working better because it breaks down the grit/polish faster? Or because it's heavier than the glass so it has a better motion in the barrel? I was always under the impression that a softer material in a tumbler would simply disappear if tumbled with a harder (i.e. I shouldn't put obsidian in with agate) but I've currently gotten the closest to good polished obsidian after giving up and tossing in a few chunks with a mix of agate, jasper and aquarium gravel. (Now I'll go check on that obsidian in the polish and it will probably be frosted... just to prove me wrong.) I am absolutely certain that the harder media breaks down the abrasive faster. That means you do not have to wait so long for your abrasive to break down which equates to faster transfer of polishing finish to your rocks. Size of the media and density of the media plays a roll too. But not as much as hardness of media. If you were using BB sized hard media or BB sized super dense hard media then it may take a long time to break the abrasive down too. On the other hand if your media is too large then you may bruise sensitive rocks; so there is a fine line. I don't know what the perfect size ratio is - rock size to media size. I am guessing that the tumbling stores sell a close to perfect size ceramic media for average sized rocks. My agate media averages 3/4 inch, my rocks average 1.25 to 2 inches if that means anything. Most ceramic media is 5/16 X 9/16 or 3/8 X 5/8(bevelled cylinders) for rock tumbling. Keep in mind most ceramic media is Mohs 9, agate media is Mohs 7. But agate is twice as dense as most ceramic media. So agate is good because it is so dense and pretty darn hard. average grade ceramic media weighs 80 pounds per cubic foot agate weighs 160 pounds per cubic foot
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 16, 2017 13:48:51 GMT -5
Check out AO 220 after 28 hours w/agate media. The other rocks were done 48 hours in AO 80 w/agate media. The AO 220 is a wicked polish. center two rocks after 28 hours in AO 220 and agate media: above 2 rocks after 16 hours in AO 220 and agate media, outside 2 rocks w/poor polish: the yellow moss
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aimeesrockworks
spending too much on rocks
I really do look like my avatar... it kinda freaks me out.
Member since December 2010
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Post by aimeesrockworks on Nov 16, 2017 15:52:27 GMT -5
So you never even put in any polish? Whoa.
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Post by MsAli on Nov 16, 2017 18:16:56 GMT -5
The yellow moss is beautiful
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 6:32:45 GMT -5
So you never even put in any polish? Whoa. No polish Aimee. Coarse aluminum oxide can break down to polish in the vibe. Or darn near it. AO 22 and AO 80 does well, sometimes needs a short polish run. Seems to require a powerful vibe. The AO 220 did not have to break down near as much but does not need a polish run. The test here was to see if the AO 220 would remove the rough surface from the SiC 30 in the rotary. And to not have so far to go before it made polish like the larger AO 80 particles have to go. Goal accomplished, 1) cleaned up the SiC 30 and 2) made to polish quicker than AO 80. Looks like a good 2 step tumble for even a gentle vibe. I debated whether to get AO 180 or AO 220. 10 pounds of white fused AO 220 for $24 ppd. www.ebay.com/itm/10-LBS-White-Fused-Alumina-Aluminum-Oxide-220-Grit-Sand-Blasting/111849277529?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 6:37:21 GMT -5
The yellow moss is beautiful The left side of that moss is crystalline quartz Ali. Good test rock for comparison. I was curious to see if the quartz polished equal to the moss agate side. No noticeable difference.
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Post by MsAli on Nov 17, 2017 10:44:03 GMT -5
The yellow moss is beautiful The left side of that moss is crystalline quartz Ali. Good test rock for comparison. I was curious to see if the quartz polished equal to the moss agate side. No noticeable difference. From the picture it doesn't look like there is any difference.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 14:31:32 GMT -5
The left side of that moss is crystalline quartz Ali. Good test rock for comparison. I was curious to see if the quartz polished equal to the moss agate side. No noticeable difference. From the picture it doesn't look like there is any difference. Probably shouldn't be any difference since they are so similar in hardness. The white quartz is more bruise sensitive, something else to keep an eye on with those bigger rocks. Just dropped a baseball size Texas pet wood in the vibe with about 15 Rio's and corals using the AO 220 from the rotary. Hoping for a quick polish by tomorrow. 2nd test run with AO 220.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 17, 2017 14:55:46 GMT -5
Haven't you got that bunch of hammered tumbles done yet?
On a side note, I like that colored glass you're using as media.
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Post by MsAli on Nov 17, 2017 15:24:19 GMT -5
From the picture it doesn't look like there is any difference. Probably shouldn't be any difference since they are so similar in hardness. The white quartz is more bruise sensitive, something else to keep an eye on with those bigger rocks. Just dropped a baseball size Texas pet wood in the vibe with about 15 Rio's and corals using the AO 220 from the rotary. Hoping for a quick polish by tomorrow. 2nd test run with AO 220. Another dumb question-When you say bruising-what does that mean or look like? More Rios
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 18:30:31 GMT -5
Haven't you got that bunch of hammered tumbles done yet?
On a side note, I like that colored glass you're using as media. Started most of them today. Ha no more glass media for me. What a waste of time. Will tumble it one day. check out the glass this N Georgia mountain shop has, view is tip of ice berg. Has it broken to tumble size by the barrel.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 18:34:50 GMT -5
Probably shouldn't be any difference since they are so similar in hardness. The white quartz is more bruise sensitive, something else to keep an eye on with those bigger rocks. Just dropped a baseball size Texas pet wood in the vibe with about 15 Rio's and corals using the AO 220 from the rotary. Hoping for a quick polish by tomorrow. 2nd test run with AO 220. Another dumb question-When you say bruising-what does that mean or look like? More Rios
Here is a mild case of bruises. They are usually way worse on the edges, to the point the rock looks like frosted glass. Small barrels rarely frost of bruise. It is my vibe that likes to bruise softer rocks. It does best with agates and other hard rocks. That will damage your eyes
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Post by MsAli on Nov 17, 2017 18:57:21 GMT -5
Another dumb question-When you say bruising-what does that mean or look like? More Rios
Here is a mild case of bruises. They are usually way worse on the edges, to the point the rock looks like frosted glass. Small barrels rarely frost of bruise. It is my vibe that likes to bruise softer rocks. It does best with agates and other hard rocks. That will damage your eyes Thank you for the pictures-it helps me "see" what you are talking about.
My eyes are just fine----
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2017 19:15:23 GMT -5
Here is a mild case of bruises. They are usually way worse on the edges, to the point the rock looks like frosted glass. Small barrels rarely frost of bruise. It is my vibe that likes to bruise softer rocks. It does best with agates and other hard rocks. That will damage your eyes Thank you for the pictures-it helps me "see" what you are talking about.
My eyes are just fine----
I built a big tire tumbler(in the beginning). It bruised rocks incredibly. The rocks would climb up the tire and roll back down, tore up the rocks.
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