Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Dec 9, 2017 22:32:40 GMT -5
I've been at this for almost a full four months now. I've had quite a few set backs, lost track of which stage I had one batch in, so I re-ran it which cost me 2 weeks. Then I screwed up and put some softer rocks in a batch in stage 1 and they bruised and chipped really bad, so I pulled a bunch out and set aside for a solo run. Anyways, with all the missteps and delays I'm nervous about how my first batch is going to come out. I know its my first batch and I should be hard on myself. I made a lot of mistakes that even now looking back I see just how silly they were, like starting with Lapis Lazuli, very pretty, very soft (about a 5 on Mohs Scale). I'm looking for a little guidance here, I've been running them for about 8 days now in AO polish. Should I keep them running for a full 2 weeks, or pull them out and see where they are? I don't think leaving them in will cause any issues, but I'm not certain. I also didn't wait long enough on stage 1, so many aren't well shaped. On the bright side, I've got 2 batches that are in polish, one is mostly my flint which progressed very quickly and I'm happy with how it looked when I put it in polish, more so than my first batch. I feel like I'm rambling, this must be a taste of what new fathers feel. I just want to check and make sure all the toes and fingers are accounted for, so to speak.
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Post by grumpybill on Dec 10, 2017 6:23:17 GMT -5
I abandoned my first batch during the 3rd stage after finding and reading this forum. Made some changes and started over. First batch that went through polish came out shiny. Ran it for 9 days. Next batch was disappointing after 10 days, even though I'd added a 1000 stage. 3rd came out looking good at 9 days. Might take my last batch out of the rotary later today, at 8 days. At this point I'm not sure length of time in polish has as much effect as the quality of stones, proper prep of those stones, and attention to detail in the earlier stages.
Even if you're not happy with this batch, you've learned things that will be helpful next time. I've approached all my runs up to this point as learning exercises and experiments.
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zekester55
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 111
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Post by zekester55 on Dec 10, 2017 8:08:46 GMT -5
I'd say check on 'em, that does not hurt anything, and if they need more time, well there is always more of that in front of you. Here's a couple of pointers to help avoid some of the mistakes you've made (learned these lessons myself in blood):
- I label each barrel with masking tape as to what is currently rolling. I also have separate barrels for all of the stages, and each one is labelled so it only ever gets used for that stage. - I put a masking tape label on each tumbler with the date the barrels were last opened. - I have another color of masking tape on each tumbler with the date it was last serviced. - I keep a log, so i can go back and see what was done on any given date. Mine is hand-written in a notebook just for that purpose, and likely not as detailed as it should be.
All of these procedures cost very little in time or money, but add a great deal in keeping me on track, and maintaining peace of mind. Hope they help.
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Dec 10, 2017 9:02:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback! I've read a lot of this before, I just need to APPLY what I've learned.
I think I'll pull them out today. Really hope they look nice and shiny!
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 10, 2017 9:04:59 GMT -5
I put small erasable White Board with magnets on the door of the Beer Frig in the garage. Gave each of the 3 tumblers a column and put in row for the 4 stages, dates and notes go in each as I go. It helps me keep track. In my case, cannot depend on memory.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,184
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Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2017 9:18:17 GMT -5
Glad you got away from the Lapis. Go with the flint and agate to start. It will put a smile on your face.
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Post by gmitch067 on Dec 10, 2017 11:01:17 GMT -5
I understand how you feel Luminin! It doesn't hurt to periodically open up the tumbler and check during the polish stage. I do that about every 3-4 days - just grab a few and wash them off with the garden hose and dry them using my daughter's hair dryer. If there is a slight polish on the rocks after the first 3-4 days, it is a good indicator that you are on the right track... just drop them back into the mix and continue to tumble in the polish stage. If after 3-4 days there is no polish taking, and they feel porous to the touch, throw them back into the polish again anyway. After another 2-3 days they do not look any better, they probably won't take a polish. Go back to the 600-grit or 1000-grit for a week and try the polish again. Still no joy(?)... bag-em and tag-em for another day. (Note: For these hard to polish stones I take a sample rock and try to put a polish on it using a dremel with a polish wheel attachment. I can try different polishes that way to see if one works. To this day, a load of picture jasper, green opals, and the grey bands of the lapis have failed on all counts. Oh well...) I have created an Excel spreadsheet to track my inventories and polishing stages/times. I backup the spreadsheet to a thumb drive, and have had to recover the file once in the last year. With a max of 9 loads running simultaneously I need that spreadsheet to keep me sane. BUT.... I also put a strip of masking tape on each drum/bowl marked with the rock type, stage, and start date.. just in case.
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Dec 10, 2017 11:05:16 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan, gmitch067! That trick with the dremel is something I can do!
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Post by rmf on Dec 10, 2017 11:34:35 GMT -5
I know we all have our own recipes for tumbling. For me tumbling was the last thing I started. the results were too slow and boring having to wait for the reaults. I started cabbing. Then added flat lapping, then slabbing (My favorite due to near immediate reward).
some years ago I got an order for tumbled stones and I started tumbling 12 10# drums (note Lortone calles them 12# drums but you can only put 10# in them to start). I was not able to keep up. I discovered that just taking the lids on and off was costing me 1hr each time I just checked the rocks. I am loath to open a tumbler now until it is done with that stage. I ended up buying a Gemstone vibrating tumbler it holds about 5gal of rock. I was at a show and complained that their vib drums wear out too fast and the president said they were not made to tumble rocks. I suggested they stop marketing them as gemstone tumblers to rock people. however he put me on to some large barrels and I built a rotary tumbler that takes 6 drums. Each drum holds 80# and when I tumble this is where I do my coarse grit and I normally tumble rocks in them for 1 month so they are well rounded. I then pull them out and finish in a vib tumbler. It holds 15 gal of rock and I can do two batches from one batch (6 drums) on the rotary. Now I just have to worry about rounding the stones and once they are in the vib it is no big deal to pop the top and check the stones. Usually I spend more time making sure the amount of water is correct than checking the stones.
Even in a rotary you should not need to polish greater than 7 days. If it takes longer than that the rocks may start beating them selves and you get poorer polish. As for missteps... this is called experience which you recieve just after you need it. this is how we all learn what recipe works best for our equipment, our temperment and our rough.
there is no direct info on if this is rotary or vib so I am assuming rotary. On grit 400 or finer and on polish always add a drop or two (a pinch or smidgen) of soap liquid or powder. It breaks the surface tension and makes the water wetter. It also helps to remove polish from the surface when done. pull out your rocks if they are polished good. If some are polished then you sort out the bad ones and restart them on fine (600) and the repolish. Make sure your barrel is 80% full going into polish. Make sure you have 20 to 25% < 1/2 " they really help in polishing.
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Post by MsAli on Dec 10, 2017 12:44:14 GMT -5
At least your 1st batch is in the polish stage, I'm going on month 2 of my 1st batch in stage 1😣 Patience, patience, patience
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 10, 2017 12:57:59 GMT -5
I know we all have our own recipes for tumbling. For me tumbling was the last thing I started. the results were too slow and boring having to wait for the reaults. I started cabbing. Then added flat lapping, then slabbing (My favorite due to near immediate reward). some years ago I got an order for tumbled stones and I started tumbling 12 10# drums (note Lortone calles them 12# drums but you can only put 10# in them to start). I was not able to keep up. I discovered that just taking the lids on and off was costing me 1hr each time I just checked the rocks. I am loath to open a tumbler now until it is done with that stage. I ended up buying a Gemstone vibrating tumbler it holds about 5gal of rock. I was at a show and complained that their vib drums wear out too fast and the president said they were not made to tumble rocks. I suggested they stop marketing them as gemstone tumblers to rock people. however he put me on to some large barrels and I built a rotary tumbler that takes 6 drums. Each drum holds 80# and when I tumble this is where I do my coarse grit and I normally tumble rocks in them for 1 month so they are well rounded. I then pull them out and finish in a vib tumbler. It holds 15 gal of rock and I can do two batches from one batch (6 drums) on the rotary. Now I just have to worry about rounding the stones and once they are in the vib it is no big deal to pop the top and check the stones. Usually I spend more time making sure the amount of water is correct than checking the stones. Even in a rotary you should not need to polish greater than 7 days. If it takes longer than that the rocks may start beating them selves and you get poorer polish. As for missteps... this is called experience which you recieve just after you need it. this is how we all learn what recipe works best for our equipment, our temperment and our rough. there is no direct info on if this is rotary or vib so I am assuming rotary. On grit 400 or finer and on polish always add a drop or two (a pinch or smidgen) of soap liquid or powder. It breaks the surface tension and makes the water wetter. It also helps to remove polish from the surface when done. pull out your rocks if they are polished good. If some are polished then you sort out the bad ones and restart them on fine (600) and the repolish. Make sure your barrel is 80% full going into polish. Make sure you have 20 to 25% < 1/2 " they really help in polishing. Will you post pictures of tumblers? It sounds like you have quite an operation going there. I can’t imagine cleaning out that volume of rocks. I’d also love to see your finished rocks.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Dec 10, 2017 13:56:00 GMT -5
I know we all have our own recipes for tumbling. For me tumbling was the last thing I started. the results were too slow and boring having to wait for the reaults. I started cabbing. Then added flat lapping, then slabbing (My favorite due to near immediate reward). some years ago I got an order for tumbled stones and I started tumbling 12 10# drums (note Lortone calles them 12# drums but you can only put 10# in them to start). I was not able to keep up. I discovered that just taking the lids on and off was costing me 1hr each time I just checked the rocks. I am loath to open a tumbler now until it is done with that stage. I ended up buying a Gemstone vibrating tumbler it holds about 5gal of rock. I was at a show and complained that their vib drums wear out too fast and the president said they were not made to tumble rocks. I suggested they stop marketing them as gemstone tumblers to rock people. however he put me on to some large barrels and I built a rotary tumbler that takes 6 drums. Each drum holds 80# and when I tumble this is where I do my coarse grit and I normally tumble rocks in them for 1 month so they are well rounded. I then pull them out and finish in a vib tumbler. It holds 15 gal of rock and I can do two batches from one batch (6 drums) on the rotary. Now I just have to worry about rounding the stones and once they are in the vib it is no big deal to pop the top and check the stones. Usually I spend more time making sure the amount of water is correct than checking the stones. Even in a rotary you should not need to polish greater than 7 days. If it takes longer than that the rocks may start beating them selves and you get poorer polish. As for missteps... this is called experience which you recieve just after you need it. this is how we all learn what recipe works best for our equipment, our temperment and our rough. there is no direct info on if this is rotary or vib so I am assuming rotary. On grit 400 or finer and on polish always add a drop or two (a pinch or smidgen) of soap liquid or powder. It breaks the surface tension and makes the water wetter. It also helps to remove polish from the surface when done. pull out your rocks if they are polished good. If some are polished then you sort out the bad ones and restart them on fine (600) and the repolish. Make sure your barrel is 80% full going into polish. Make sure you have 20 to 25% < 1/2 " they really help in polishing. Will you post pictures of tumblers? It sounds like you have quite an operation going there. I can’t imagine cleaning out that volume of rocks. I’d also love to see your finished rocks. I agree with Rob. When I started tumbling, I came on here to learn how to do it. First order of business was to look at pictures of tumbles I liked and wanted to duplicate. Then, I looked at who was producing those tumbles. That accomplished, I went back and read prior posts and asked questions of those I choose to emulate. (Thank you Jugglerguy and Drummond Island Rocks) In no way am I questioning the quality of your work. Definitely sounds like you know what you're doing. It just helps those folks that are learning to see what they are shooting for and might be looking for a mentor.
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Dec 10, 2017 14:33:11 GMT -5
... this is called experience which you recieve just after you need it. That is an excellent, accurate saying! Also, I've read about adding the soap or borax, can't believe I forgot it! MsAli You're doing it better than I did. Stage 1 is supposed to be the longest!
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Post by rmf on Dec 10, 2017 15:33:54 GMT -5
When I made the big rotary tumbler I had purchased a collection and it had 3000 pounds of TN puddingstone. That year I finished 2000pounds of puddingstone (the rest was mud). Now I only tumble when someone really wants a bunch since it costs a lot to run the 3/4 HP motor 7x24. When people come and want me to tumble 2 stones for them I have a good excuse... They need a min of 240 # of rock to get me interested. I will take some Pic tomorrow.
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Post by MsAli on Dec 10, 2017 16:03:31 GMT -5
... this is called experience which you recieve just after you need it. That is an excellent, accurate saying! Also, I've read about adding the soap or borax, can't believe I forgot it! MsAli You're doing it better than I did. Stage 1 is supposed to be the longest! I started out with the Bots which are testing my patience to no end. I made a rookie error and had to readjust my rock/water ratio and now I think I've got that correct. Went back and read more threads and took notes from the masters. Now I am dreaming of another tumbler....the addiction has become real.
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Post by rmf on Dec 11, 2017 18:54:55 GMT -5
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Post by fernwood on Dec 11, 2017 19:50:00 GMT -5
rmfAll I see are what appears to be portions of larger photos. On a 2017 laptop.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 11, 2017 19:51:55 GMT -5
It’s hard to make out exactly what I’m seeing in the pictures because they’re so close, but thanks for trying!
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Post by Garage Rocker on Dec 11, 2017 23:05:28 GMT -5
Ok, you've got some equipment. How about some pictures of rocks? That's what we all come here for.
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Dec 16, 2017 15:10:31 GMT -5
So, just checked on them having made a few changes from last week. To the Exact. Same. Results. No change, at all.
So I'm sitting there staring at them pondering when like a bolt out of the blue I have a thought... "1,200."
That's the grade of "polish" I'm using.
So I start thinking, "that's not a polish grade, that's Pre-Polish."
Do a little searching here on RTH and sure enough. Pre-Polish. No wonder I'm getting no where.
Guess I'll be placing another order to the Rock Shed for the REAL stuff!
I don't know why I never noticed. So for anyone thinking about buying from Polly Plastics on Amazon. Just remember you'll need to buy actual polish elsewhere.
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