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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 1, 2018 16:36:09 GMT -5
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jun 1, 2018 16:44:39 GMT -5
I have absolutely no idea .... but what a great gift! Luck you.
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Post by fernwood on Jun 1, 2018 17:02:34 GMT -5
Wow. It sure looks like it to me. I used to have some bracelets from that material. They had a waxy feel to them.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 1, 2018 17:14:12 GMT -5
wampidytoo, what do you think? You are the jade man.
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Post by MsAli on Jun 1, 2018 17:15:26 GMT -5
Holy cow! I would say it is. I wonder why they considered it a "cast off"
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 1, 2018 17:24:31 GMT -5
Holy cow! I would say it is. I wonder why they considered it a "cast off" It has a couple veins in it to work around. It may not have suited the design in mind. They aren't bad, at at all. It certainly will not be a problem for me. There are maybe 100 cabs in this. I love the way the light penetrates it. I wish I knew more about jade. I don't know if this is jadeite or nephrite.
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Post by MsAli on Jun 1, 2018 17:46:21 GMT -5
Holy cow! I would say it is. I wonder why they considered it a "cast off" It has a couple veins in it to work around. It may not have suited the design in mind. They aren't bad, at at all. It certainly will not be a problem for me. There are maybe 100 cabs in this. I love the way the light penetrates it. I wish I knew more about jade. I don't know if this is jadeite or nephrite. I am sure someone here will be able to help with that All I know and it is from what I read, nephrite is softer than jadeite and scratches pretty easily with a knife. I cannot wait to see you work your magic with it.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jun 1, 2018 18:18:45 GMT -5
Maybe Kurt kk would be able help you on this one.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 1, 2018 18:29:22 GMT -5
Maybe Kurt kk would be able help you on this one. Good idea!
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 18:31:08 GMT -5
Well, Mutton Fat is traditionally a nephrite. There is white jadeite, too. You need to look at it in high magnification (you should be able to see some texture in there, as opposed to glass). Or you can just slice it and start cabbing - if you cab normally, you'll get the orange peel at some point to confirm. At that size and polished shape, I wonder whether it had been pre-formed and polished for cutting a seal?
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minerken
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Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Jun 1, 2018 18:41:50 GMT -5
Hope this doesn't start an argument. Nephrite jade is not actually a mineral but a catch all term for the actinolite /tremolite solid solution series. It kind of goes like this think of a teeter tot on one end the mineral composition is rich in magnesium and the other end is of the teeter tot is high in iron. The whiter the material the more Mg and the greener to black is higher in iron. What happens is the iron and magnesium are comparable in size (molecules) and one can readily substitute for the other depending on which element is predominate in the environment that it was formed. So in reality mutton jade is tremolite and black jade is actinolite then there is all the stuff in the middle which the color can vary from light green to a dark green. Nephrite is a generally accepted term for this series but not really scientific. I have also heard it explained that nephrite was this nebulous area between tremolite and actionlite i.e. the black and white. Jadeite is a whole different animal.
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Post by kk on Jun 1, 2018 18:47:29 GMT -5
Ahh, yes Mutton fat has a slight yellow tint to it as opposed to pure white and is not that expensive in comparison. Don't know about the orange peel, but even with waxing for finish, it still usually does not have a mirror finish. Looking at your pictures, it is likely a nephrite similar to Hetian Jade. But as a block that size would cost in the millions, it could be presumed to come from Indonesia. Its the kind that I bought a few years ago, and will be looking for again next month with the yellow rind.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 1, 2018 18:59:40 GMT -5
Ahh, yes Mutton fat has a slight yellow tint to it as opposed to pure white and is not that expensive in comparison. Don't know about the orange peel, but even with waxing for finish, it still usually does not have a mirror finish. Looking at your pictures, it is likely a nephrite similar to Hetian Jade. But as a block that size would cost in the millions, it could be presumed to come from Indonesia. Its the kind that I bought a few years ago, and will be looking for again next month with the yellow rind. Yes, it is nephrite. I just scratched it. It does have a very slight yellow tint. She just flew over from China and got this in China. I would be surprised if it were from Indonesia, but I'm sure she didn't give me a million dollar block of rock, either.
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Post by kk on Jun 1, 2018 19:05:42 GMT -5
Once you start cabing, look for the rough edges. Any little breakaway (rough edge) will give you a clearer picture about its nature. Glossular structure reveals Jadeite, and fibrous means nephrite. Quite easily seen by any person not too familiar with the material, but not foolproof.
If I remember right, the industry wants to make actinolite a separate class of jade, and GIA made moves to do so a few years back. But, Have not heard of that since.
By the way, any colour in jade means presence of other substances. "pure jade" is colorlessness!
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Post by kk on Jun 1, 2018 19:18:16 GMT -5
[quote author=" kk" timestamp="1527896849" source="/post/999249/thread" It does have a very slight yellow tint. She just flew over from China and got this in China. I would be surprised if it were from Indonesia, but I'm sure she didn't give me a million dollar block of rock, either. Don't be. China is not only cheating the world with fakes. When it comes to jade, the biggest market is within their own country and miss-representation is the norm rather than the exception. The most expensive jade within China is Hetian, and they find less than ten pounds a year these days, yet approximately ten tons of it enters the market every year under that name. Another is "Tian Huang"; that thing is not even jade but rather a sort of soapstone, long mined out in China itself. For that particular material, you paid about 5$ a pound 12 years ago in Indonesia. Today, if you are lucky, you can have some for about 8000$ a pound because of the chinese market. And everything is labeled, certified and sold as coming from within China.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 2, 2018 7:42:06 GMT -5
[quote author=" kk " timestamp="1527896849" source="/post/999249/thread" It does have a very slight yellow tint. She just flew over from China and got this in China. I would be surprised if it were from Indonesia, but I'm sure she didn't give me a million dollar block of rock, either. Don't be. China is not only cheating the world with fakes. When it comes to jade, the biggest market is within their own country and miss-representation is the norm rather than the exception. The most expensive jade within China is Hetian, and they find less than ten pounds a year these days, yet approximately ten tons of it enters the market every year under that name. Another is "Tian Huang"; that thing is not even jade but rather a sort of soapstone, long mined out in China itself. For that particular material, you paid about 5$ a pound 12 years ago in Indonesia. Today, if you are lucky, you can have some for about 8000$ a pound because of the chinese market. And everything is labeled, certified and sold as coming from within China. Kurt, I know it is bad form to ask, but what is it worth as Indonesian? I need to know what to sell the cabs for. I am not trying to insult her, but I am pretty ignorant and would like to convey to her the appropriate appreciation aside from it being very thoughtful - as she knows I am a lapidary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 13:25:24 GMT -5
Wow, kk I knew that Hetian was very expensive, but had no idea that so little is being mined. Certainly there isn't enough to explain the amount of "Hetian" advertised all over the Internet, let alone what is displayed in shops in and out of China. Some Japanese jades similarly don't seem to provide enough to explain what is on the market. rockjunquie Perhaps this link on alibaba might give an idea. Not quite the same as yours (seems to have a greenish cast, rather than yellowish). There are also white "Mutton Fat" nephrite supplied from southern Siberia and Canada (more from the former). Price guides aren't much help, as prices are all over the place. Not sure which labs would be able to identify the country of origin, or whether knowing that would be worth the cost of a report.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,549
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Post by RWA3006 on Jun 2, 2018 15:54:47 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, you might want to measure its specific gravity to confirm what it is. One of the things that catches my eye is it appears quite homogeneous compared to much of the mutton fat I've seen during my stay in China. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were the real deal. I have an approximately 80 pound boulder of the stuff and testing confirmed it to be mostly tremolite. It looks very similar to your photos. The glow from the flashlight is almost identical to mine.
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Post by kk on Jun 2, 2018 18:56:55 GMT -5
There is precious little one can do about origin once it has entered the market. That's why I always called my Lizard piece, Hetian, but mentioned at the same time that I belief it to come from Indonesia. In the raw form, its simply the price, and available quantity, that is a sure guideline. If I can afford it, its sure that its not from the advertised location.
As for price: I'm afraid I'm not in the know about those things at all. Price it, like you would any other jade.
I got a client (student) whose mother and grandmother are obsessed with wearing Hetian, and have seen them wearing quite a few pieces over the years. Yet I know them not to be rich enough to be having so many real pieces despite of knowing people in the field. They always go gaga when I wear the lizard and want to hold the piece. In general, I can feel people staring at me when I'm running around with it. Chinese a well known to like green, but Hetian takes it to another level.
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minerken
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Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Jun 2, 2018 22:54:32 GMT -5
rockjunquie This from the IGA may be helpful I don’t know but I found it very interesting Siberian green nephrite first entered the China market in the early 1990s through the border trading town of Dongning in Heilongjiang Province, China. There are more than a hundred nephrite jade dealers doing business in Dongning. Between 2005 and 2011, due to the shortage of rough, the price of white nephrite skyrocketed from $500 to $10,000 a kilo, making it unaffordable for the majority of consumers. This opened the opportunity for large amounts of well-priced green nephrite to be imported into China. Between 2005 and 2008, Siberian green nephrite gained a lot of respect from Chinese consumers. Bangles and beads from the Ospa #7 deposit became a consumer favorite, while material from Gorlygol #10 was used mainly for carvings. The full article www.gia.edu/gia-news-research/nephrite-jade-road-evolution-green-nephrite-market
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