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Post by 1dave on Jun 17, 2018 18:10:51 GMT -5
 Figure 1. Temperature fluctuations over the past 17,000 years showing the abrupt cooling during the Younger Dryas. The late Pleistocene cold glacial climate that built immense ice sheets terminated suddenly about 14,500 years ago (1), causing glaciers to melt dramatically. About 12,800 years ago, after about 2000 years of fluctuating climate (2-4), temperatures plunged suddenly (5) and remained cool for 1300 years (6). About 11,500 years ago, the climate again warmed suddenly and the Younger Dryas ended (7). Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/83701/thirteen-years-ago-happened?page=1#ixzz5Ij8vs1jF |
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Post by parfive on Jun 18, 2018 0:30:55 GMT -5
Love the cartoon. Didn’t realize today’s temps same as Little Ice Age.
Wonder why Glacier NP never got the message? : )
ps - Looks like the Upper Midwest could use some o’ that infrastructure package tonight. STAT!
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Post by 1dave on Jun 18, 2018 7:55:35 GMT -5
Another Interpretation:
1 is where humans first began burning wood and fossil fuels 2 is when the fuel supply ran out. 3. they find a new supply
Only humans burning stuff has kept the planet from freezing.
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Post by parfive on Jun 18, 2018 11:34:08 GMT -5
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lookatthat
Cave Dweller 
Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
Posts: 1,360 
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Post by lookatthat on Jun 18, 2018 12:28:55 GMT -5
I'm in Vermont. I get people hollering about Global Warming all the time.
I say, "Of course there's Global Warming! You don't see any glaciers out the window, do you? Because just a few thousand years ago you would have been squashed under thousand of feet of ice!"
Now they call it, "Climate change," as though a changing climate is an anomaly, when actually -- it's the norm over Earth's history.
I'm not saying that to excuse bad land use practices or massive pollution, but this party's been going on long before modern man walked into the room.
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Post by 1dave on Jun 18, 2018 12:58:32 GMT -5
I'm skeptical of the skeptics. The Global Warming Crowd are well known for their Fudging, Fabricating, Prevaricating, and outright LYING. |
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Post by parfive on Jun 18, 2018 13:50:21 GMT -5
No mirrors in your house, eh? : )
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Post by 1dave on Jun 18, 2018 14:27:22 GMT -5
No mirrors in your house, eh? : ) We have known for years that you and I live in different worlds, you with your reality, me with mine. |
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,494
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 18, 2018 19:39:07 GMT -5
Global warming is good as long as you are not in a dry zone. More crops grow in more places. Golden age of Europe occurred in a global warm period however population suffered in dry zones during this period while population thrived in warm humid areas of higher rainfall. With global cooling, lots of folks in northern cold climes die of starvation or in wars over food and fuel. Given my choice I'll take warm over cold any day because I hates the snow, ugly white stuff and would live in shorts if I could. So why sweat global warming?  ? |
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 18, 2018 19:48:28 GMT -5
Figure 1. Temperature fluctuations over the past 17,000 years showing the abrupt cooling during the Younger Dryas. The late Pleistocene cold glacial climate that built immense ice sheets terminated suddenly about 14,500 years ago (1), causing glaciers to melt dramatically. About 12,800 years ago, after about 2000 years of fluctuating climate (2-4), temperatures plunged suddenly (5) and remained cool for 1300 years (6). About 11,500 years ago, the climate again warmed suddenly and the Younger Dryas ended (7). Let's assume for a second that this graph in accurate. Explain how it is that the Greenland ice sheet is suddenly rapidly disappearing despite being much older than this graph.
So if temps are cooler now than between the period of 2,000-10,000 years ago why is the Greenland ice sheet just now almost disappearing? Shouldn't have melted away completely with the significantly higher temps of 2 to 10 thousand years ago? Same applies to the pole ice caps.
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 18, 2018 19:59:37 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 18, 2018 20:14:32 GMT -5
I'm in Vermont. I get people hollering about Global Warming all the time. I say, "Of course there's Global Warming! You don't see any glaciers out the window, do you? Because just a few thousand years ago you would have been squashed under thousand of feet of ice!" Now they call it, "Climate change," as though a changing climate is an anomaly, when actually -- it's the norm over Earth's history. I'm not saying that to excuse bad land use practices or massive pollution, but this party's been going on long before modern man walked into the room. Yes, it is part of Earth's natural history. So what? That does not change the fact that humans are altering the Earth's climate modern day.
Did you ever stop to think what could have led to past cooling and warming events?
Cooling can result from volcanic ash or asteroid impacts blocking out sunlight. Or simply a decline in insulting gases such as carbon dioxide and methane.
Warming would occur with increased volcanic activity spewing out insulating gases but not ash, mass die offs leading to increased methane and more sunlight reaching the surface. Especially if there was less vegetation, which would not only allow more ground absorption on solar radiation but also increased insulating gases.
Go way back in history and there was a lot more volcanic activity for one, which as pointed out can cycle temps. Compared to then we have very little temperature altering volcanic activity these days. And even though the Earth has various examples of major asteroid impacts in the distant past what impact event have we had in recent history? That's right, NONE!!!!
Humans are simply replacing volcanoes as far as insulating gases go. And humans play other roles as well such as creating asphalt roads that are well known for increasing temperatures. This is why in a city the temperature will be hotter than the surrounding area where there is less asphalt. And humans have also done other things that contribute to global warming such as clear cutting or forests, that decreases uptake of insulting gases and exposes the ground to more solar radiation, and polluting the oceans and lakes leading to algae blooms that increase water temperature through increases solar radiation absorption. On top of that there is cleat evidence that manmade CFCs and some other manmade chemicals do in fact destroy the ozone layer, which filters out some solar radiation.
Seems to me that many humans simply wish to ignore the facts because they do not want to change their habits. Unfortunately this is a big part of human nature and people don't tend to wake up to the reality until it is too late.
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Post by parfive on Jun 18, 2018 23:25:38 GMT -5
Mel loves his hot air. So do my pals Clausius & Clapeyron.
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lookatthat
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Post by lookatthat on Jun 19, 2018 9:39:35 GMT -5
It's true that people don't want to change their habits. Try to get people to recycle in a manner that actually makes environmental and economic sense, ha!
Or this -- I have received packets of paper from government and private offices where there was a printed 2-line statement about conserving paper. They were the only two lines on the paper.
and It's an Inconvenient Truth that Al Gore has a much, much larger carbon footprint than even your average American.
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nemesis21
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since August 2017
Posts: 88 
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Post by nemesis21 on Jun 19, 2018 13:22:13 GMT -5
I don't think any climate scientist would argue with you about temperatures being warmer/colder than they are today in the distant past. Yes, those temperatures were very likely naturally occurring events(sorry Atlantis believers). However, the current rate of change is a troubling aspect if you consider how correlated these temperature spikes are with mass extinction events.
Even if you think we are not the cause of the CO2 increases or climatic variability, you should be worried about the consequences. If anything that graph should make you more worried about how much the temperature can change and what you might expect the consequences to be in a world that has an ever-increasing human population.
I would love for you to cite some sources on this. As far as I know, humans began using fire over 100,000 years ago and coal use wasn't utilized until ~1000 BCE and wasn't prevalent until the industrial revolution. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand if you like about climate change, but I would defer to someone who is trained in climate science to interpret data before you. If you don't think the climate is complicated you aren't doing it right.
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Post by grumpybill on Jun 19, 2018 13:41:40 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Jun 19, 2018 14:04:29 GMT -5
I don't think any climate scientist would argue with you about temperatures being warmer/colder than they are today in the distant past. Yes, those temperatures were very likely naturally occurring events(sorry Atlantis believers). However, the current rate of change is a troubling aspect if you consider how correlated these temperature spikes are with mass extinction events. Even if you think we are not the cause of the CO2 increases or climatic variability, you should be worried about the consequences. If anything that graph should make you more worried about how much the temperature can change and what you might expect the consequences to be in a world that has an ever-increasing human population. I would love for you to cite some sources on this. As far as I know, humans began using fire over 100,000 years ago and coal use wasn't utilized until ~1000 BCE and wasn't prevalent until the industrial revolution. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand if you like about climate change, but I would defer to someone who is trained in climate science to interpret data before you. If you don't think the climate is complicated you aren't doing it right. You have no aptitude for humor? I'm just going along with the liberal gag that all earth's problems emanate from the humans.Just do away with the humans and Mother Gaia will be fine. |
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lookatthat
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Post by lookatthat on Jun 19, 2018 15:05:27 GMT -5
Pretty sure the 1, 2, 3 thing was a joke...
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Post by fernwood on Jun 19, 2018 15:08:48 GMT -5
I am one of "those people" who understands that the term climate change is the best way to describe what is happening world wide.
Climate change forced me to move from NW WI to Central WI. Mostly for the good of my horses. The amount of rain and snow made the pastures a muddy mess most of the time. It is where I grew up and had returned to. Lived there for 16 years as a child, moved back, then 13 years before moving where I am now. Lots of clay and mud soil, which retained the moisture.
Now, am experiencing the same thing where I am now. 30" of snow in late April was a record event here. The frequent rains of 3-6" over several days are not the norm. The saving grace for me is that my land here is mostly sand. The 6" of rain naturally goes into the Earth over several days.
There has been many shifts in climates since this Earth was formed. What is happening now is what has happened for many centuries. Yes, it may be an accelerated process due to certain factors, which I will not go into.
I am glad you posted this topic. Everyone has their beliefs on everything. A great discussion.
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Post by mohs on Jun 19, 2018 15:58:15 GMT -5
I did make the argument earlier
That if a super duper volcano erupted in the present day
Leading to a volcanic winter
We humans would be better prepared
Then millenniums past.
Because of our high brainy capacity to burn massive amounts of natural resources to warm ourselves
-- hence releasing vast amounts CO2 greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere--
would have a balancing effect
against that nasty naturally caused winter
And we could all live happily ever after...
mostly
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