hnhstngs
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2018
Posts: 93
|
Post by hnhstngs on Oct 28, 2018 20:59:25 GMT -5
I tried asking this once already but posted to the wrong sub-forum so deleted I that and am trying again. I started this tumbling thing to play with some agates I collected in Oregon last spring. I then found this site and after reading a whole lotta posts quickly realized I was under powered for what I was trying to do. So now I have a QT66, a 45C and a 3A to rough grind with and a UV3 to do all my finishing with. I've also started building up my stash of tumbling material through some great purchases from some online vendors and some members here as well as my first real self-collecting excursion. Many of those rocks though are too big for my tumblers and the ones that aren't don't necessarily have the best shape to start the process with. I've read references to "pre-forming" stones before rough tumbling or "fixing" them after the rough stage to improve the shape and quality of the finished stones. That means a saw of some kind and a grinder. I have an old Bader BIII belt grinder from years ago that I could get running again but I am clueless about saws. I know there are lapidary trim saws and that some folks use tile saws but I don't really know where to go beyond that. What I need is to be able to make simple cuts on stock that's not terribly big to get a better size for tumbling. No slabs in the immediate future (I want to get a good handle on this tumbling business first). Any suggestions?
Oh, and am I understanding right that the motor/base for the UV3 is the same as the UV10? All I might have to do to triple my finish capacity is get another tub?
|
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on Oct 28, 2018 21:06:40 GMT -5
I tried asking this once already but posted to the wrong sub-forum so deleted I that and am trying again. I started this tumbling thing to play with some agates I collected in Oregon last spring. I then found this site and after reading a whole lotta posts quickly realized I was under powered for what I was trying to do. So now I have a QT66, a 45C and a 3A to rough grind with and a UV3 to do all my finishing with. I've also started building up my stash of tumbling material through some great purchases from some online vendors and some members here as well as my first real self-collecting excursion. Many of those rocks though are too big for my tumblers and the ones that aren't don't necessarily have the best shape to start the process with. I've read references to "pre-forming" stones before rough tumbling or "fixing" them after the rough stage to improve the shape and quality of the finished stones. That means a saw of some kind and a grinder. I have an old Bader BIII belt grinder from years ago that I could get running again but I am clueless about saws. I know there are lapidary trim saws and that some folks use tile saws but I don't really know where to go beyond that. What I need is to be able to make simple cuts on stock that's not terribly big to get a better size for tumbling. No slabs in the immediate future (I want to get a good handle on this tumbling business first). Any suggestions? Oh, and am I understanding right that the motor/base for the UV3 is the same as the UV10? All I might have to do to triple my finish capacity is get another tub? So the cheapest route for pre-shaping for tumbling... would be a simple tile saw. I bought a 7'' tile saw on Harbor fright with 2 blades for like $70. A 10'' saw gives a little more versatility but not that much more. Really, unless you have a rock saw - this is about as best as it gets. I don't think the lortone or other branded rock saws that are 7'' etc are much better than a tile saw - for tumble shaping.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Oct 28, 2018 22:11:21 GMT -5
I tried asking this once already but posted to the wrong sub-forum so deleted I that and am trying again. I started this tumbling thing to play with some agates I collected in Oregon last spring. I then found this site and after reading a whole lotta posts quickly realized I was under powered for what I was trying to do. So now I have a QT66, a 45C and a 3A to rough grind with and a UV3 to do all my finishing with. I've also started building up my stash of tumbling material through some great purchases from some online vendors and some members here as well as my first real self-collecting excursion. Many of those rocks though are too big for my tumblers and the ones that aren't don't necessarily have the best shape to start the process with. I've read references to "pre-forming" stones before rough tumbling or "fixing" them after the rough stage to improve the shape and quality of the finished stones. That means a saw of some kind and a grinder. I have an old Bader BIII belt grinder from years ago that I could get running again but I am clueless about saws. I know there are lapidary trim saws and that some folks use tile saws but I don't really know where to go beyond that. What I need is to be able to make simple cuts on stock that's not terribly big to get a better size for tumbling. No slabs in the immediate future (I want to get a good handle on this tumbling business first). Any suggestions? Oh, and am I understanding right that the motor/base for the UV3 is the same as the UV10? All I might have to do to triple my finish capacity is get another tub? So the cheapest route for pre-shaping for tumbling... would be a simple tile saw. I bought a 7'' tile saw on Harbor fright with 2 blades for like $70. A 10'' saw gives a little more versatility but not that much more. Really, unless you have a rock saw - this is about as best as it gets. I don't think the lortone or other branded rock saws that are 7'' etc are much better than a tile saw - for tumble shaping. I agree with Grant here. I, as well as other tumblers, simply use a tile saw to size stuff down. Just know that with a 7" saw, your maximum cutting depth is around 1.5 inches. However, that can be overcome if you roll the rock over the blade. You can also grind the rock against the blade to eliminate protrusions and such. A tile saw may not be ideal, but it's certainly workable.
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Oct 29, 2018 6:01:30 GMT -5
I use a tile saw for slicing, shaping and trimming. The main drawback is that a tile saw throws a LOT of water. Unless you're OK with making a mess in your garage or basement, they're only useful during warm weather.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Oct 29, 2018 7:48:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 29, 2018 8:18:45 GMT -5
This is the way some of us use the tile saw to break down rough for tumbling. The little 7" saw from Harbor Freight is a workhorse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 11:21:33 GMT -5
I use a tile saw for slicing, shaping and trimming. The main drawback is that a tile saw throws a LOT of water. Unless you're OK with making a mess in your garage or basement, they're only useful during warm weather. Agree with the warm weather part. If you want to keep things less messy (and also funnel much of that overspray back into the reservoir) a sheet of plastic or some other barrier will minimize that problem. And as the video from Garage Rocker shows, stand in back of the saw and draw toward you (I learned that the hard way - though getting soaked was rather refreshing on the very hot day, even with goggles and rain poncho, the rock grit wasn't).
|
|
hnhstngs
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2018
Posts: 93
|
Post by hnhstngs on Oct 29, 2018 11:38:26 GMT -5
GR that’s perfect! There’s a Harbor Freight about 20 miles from me. It may be that I get into this in a much bigger way in the future and then something like a combination saw/grinder unit might be more efficient but for now I think a small saw like that would do fine.
Thanks for the link 1dave. I am envious of other people’s mechanical ingenuity (mainly because I have none!). In the vernacular of the times, I am very much a “plug and play” kind of guy.
|
|
hnhstngs
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2018
Posts: 93
|
Post by hnhstngs on Oct 29, 2018 15:34:27 GMT -5
Got the saw (Harbor Freight 7"). Suggestions for a blade?
|
|
|
Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 29, 2018 15:50:34 GMT -5
Got the saw (Harbor Freight 7"). Suggestions for a blade? I usually just grab a tile or glass blade form Lowe's, Home Depot or wherever. I think I pay between $25-$35, depending on which brand. They seem to cut and hold up as well as some of the lapidary blades I've tried, like the MK-225 (Hot Dog) You'll be tumbling the rocks anyway, no need to have the smoothest cut.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Oct 29, 2018 16:34:59 GMT -5
I've recently been using a an MK301 or MK303 (can' recall which) that had been gently used before I bought it. It's held up pretty well thus far, but I also try to cut gently (slowly) with it. If I hadn't been presented with it, I probably wouldn't normally pay that much for a blade to size stuff down. I've also used (and have one on deck) an Ox brand which also has held up pretty well. Still not cheap...somewhere around $45 bought locally. us.oxtools.com/diamond-tools/ox-ultimate-uctt-thin-turbo-diamond-blade-porcelain.htmlI've yet to try the Hot Dog blade that Randy mentioned. That's probably the next blade on the list. Shop around online. Pretty wide disparity in pricing. A couple parting thoughts...be sure to get something to dress the blade with. Some use a red brick, some have used grinding wheels, and others (like me) use an abrasive stone that can be found in tile departments. It's typically used to soften cut edges on tiles. Whatever blade you buy, make sure you get one that is "rated" for cutting porcelain tile (it should say so on the packaging/product listing). Regular old masonry diamond blades may not hold up as well.
|
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on Oct 29, 2018 16:45:00 GMT -5
A couple parting thoughts...be sure to get something to dress the blade with. Some use a red brick, some have used grinding wheels, and others (like me) use an abrasive stone that can be found in tile departments. It's typically used to soften cut edges on tiles. Would you mind expanding on this thought? I have not been doing this (to my understanding of your point) and I'm curious if you can elaborate? What do you mean "dress the blade with"? Thanks, Grant
|
|
|
Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 29, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5
I've recently been using a an MK301 or MK303 (can' recall which) that had been gently used before I bought it. It's held up pretty well thus far, but I also try to cut gently (slowly) with it. Yeah, I guess I'd be classified an 'aggressive' cutter. Probably why I get the cheaper blades.
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Oct 29, 2018 16:51:37 GMT -5
Would you mind expanding on this thought? I have not been doing this (to my understanding of your point) and I'm curious if you can elaborate? What do you mean "dress the blade with"? The edge of a blade will occasionally "glaze over". Symptoms include slow cutting and or needing to push the stone harder. The quick cure is to run the saw through something abrasive ("dressing" the blade). I use a chunk of sandstone.
|
|
goatgrinder
spending too much on rocks
Make mine a man cave
Member since January 2017
Posts: 368
|
Post by goatgrinder on Oct 29, 2018 17:39:43 GMT -5
I use a tile saw for slicing, shaping and trimming. The main drawback is that a tile saw throws a LOT of water. Unless you're OK with making a mess in your garage or basement, they're only useful during warm weather. Okay everybody lets just jump up on the same page here. The box my tile saw came in was for "tile, marble, granite, concrete, and brick"
My tile saw IS a real rock saw. I have treated it as such for about fifteen years now. No problems.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Oct 29, 2018 18:27:47 GMT -5
Would you mind expanding on this thought? I have not been doing this (to my understanding of your point) and I'm curious if you can elaborate? What do you mean "dress the blade with"? The edge of a blade will occasionally "glaze over". Symptoms include slow cutting and or needing to push the stone harder. The quick cure is to run the saw through something abrasive ("dressing" the blade). I use a chunk of sandstone. saxplayer , in addition to what Bill said, the actual "dressing" of the blade is to expose more diamonds as they get worn away. Here's a vid that I found on YouTube that does a pretty good job of explaining the process and what is actually done to the blade with a dressing stone. Oh yeah, I also "swage" my blades. Take a look at this thread here. Unfortunately the links to doc is no longer any good, but I think you'll get an idea of what is being done. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/50208Found Care and Feeding of Rock Saws at another site. Good all around saw and blade info.
|
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on Oct 29, 2018 21:48:12 GMT -5
Wow thank you for the lesson. I had no clue I needed to do this for my blade - just assumed it was time for another blade. I have gone through 3 since May so maybe this will help (wink).
Learn something new everyday. Too bad I can’t teach anything here lol.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Oct 29, 2018 22:01:45 GMT -5
Wow thank you for the lesson. I had no clue I needed to do this for my blade - just assumed it was time for another blade. I have gone through 3 since May so maybe this will help (wink). Learn something new everyday. Too bad I can’t teach anything here lol. If you've done nothing in regards to dressing your blade(s) or swaging them, I can guarantee you'll get more life out of the blades if you start to do so. The dressing is easy. Don't let the swaging scare you. Light taps to get a square edge to eliminate the rounding is all you're looking for. I think you'll be happy in the long run.
|
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on Oct 29, 2018 22:15:01 GMT -5
Wow thank you for the lesson. I had no clue I needed to do this for my blade - just assumed it was time for another blade. I have gone through 3 since May so maybe this will help (wink). Learn something new everyday. Too bad I can’t teach anything here lol. If you've done nothing in regards to dressing your blade(s) or swaging them, I can guarantee you'll get more life out of the blades if you start to do so. The dressing is easy. Don't let the swaging scare you. Light taps to get a square edge to eliminate the rounding is all you're looking for. I think you'll be happy in the long run. I have not but I will now. What should I buy to dress with?
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Oct 29, 2018 22:32:32 GMT -5
If you've done nothing in regards to dressing your blade(s) or swaging them, I can guarantee you'll get more life out of the blades if you start to do so. The dressing is easy. Don't let the swaging scare you. Light taps to get a square edge to eliminate the rounding is all you're looking for. I think you'll be happy in the long run. I have not but I will now. What should I buy to dress with? Some folks simply use a red brick. Here is something on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Raimondi-Diamond-Blade-Resin-Dressing/dp/B000NCVH70I was able to buy a dressing stone at a local lumber supply that was 60 grit. Like my blade, it was Ox brand. I know Home Depot sells something similar, but I can't find it right now. If you go to Home Depot (or similar) go into the tile section and look for stones that tilesetters use for softening cut edges from tile. You can also use something like a 60 grit grinding wheel as well.
|
|