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Post by stephan on Nov 24, 2018 22:13:25 GMT -5
Let this be a lesson: don't use red or purple Sharpie to mark your cabs -- especially if you are going to change your mind later. A few ago, I started marking out my slabs in red Sharpie, so that the outlines would be easier to see when I was grinding. The problem is that red ink, for some reason, penetrates deep into the stone -- more than 3mm, sometimes. When is fine, if you have a thick slab and you don't change your mind, because the marks will be cut away as you dome. If you change your mind, you're screwed though. This piece, prior to being cabbed was already soaked in acetone, to liitle effect. Which is odd, because in the lab, red Sharpie is a problem because it has no resistance whatever to any solvent... even 50% alcohol, so I figured that it would be easy. Wrong. I guess I'll try soaking it again. I'm not confident that it'll work, because in the 6 years this piece sat, the ink probably set, if anything. If it doesn't work, I guess I have a choice: nastier solvents, or grinding through the ink. Luckily, I have a thick slab, but I hate to lose the little druzy/fortification spot. This probably does not exactly qualify as a wabi-sabi element. Other than that, I love it. Sigh. First World problems. DSC_0999_Ocean jasper with Sharpie mark by Stephan Telm, on Flickr So after much advice and guessing by other lapidarists, I decided to go with a destaining-type protocol, that fit in with what a lot people were saying. I did, however, bump up the concentrations and polarity of solvents. In the end, I went with 90% isopropanol and 10% glacial acetic acid. After three weeks, with periodic heating, I'd say I'm 99.5% of the way there. There is still a bit of pink, but at this point, you have to look for it. As a bonus, the druzy areas cleaned up nicely as well. DSC_1259_Ocean jasper cab destained by Stephan Telm, on Flickr
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Post by Pat on Nov 24, 2018 22:55:06 GMT -5
Which acetone did you soak it in? Hardware variety, or nail polish remover?
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Post by MsAli on Nov 24, 2018 22:55:56 GMT -5
This is why I use a thick pencil😂 Try mixing toothpaste and baking soda
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Post by pauls on Nov 24, 2018 23:10:35 GMT -5
Try bleach, or just sit it in the sun, red dye fades rapidly in sunlight.
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Post by stephan on Nov 24, 2018 23:10:58 GMT -5
Which acetone did you soak it in? Hardware variety, or nail polish remover? 100% lab-grade acetone.
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Post by stephan on Nov 24, 2018 23:18:21 GMT -5
This is why I use a thick pencil😂 Try mixing toothpaste and baking soda Can't hurt. I'll give it a try.
As for, the pencil, I couldn't see the lines when I was grinding. Now that I do mostly freeforms, and just sketch a general outline, it might work. That, and a ultra-fine black marker doesn't seem to penetrate too far. It's just the red and purple ones, for some reason. Weird chromatography. I bet a chemist could explain it.
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Post by stephan on Nov 24, 2018 23:20:23 GMT -5
Try bleach, or just sit it in the sun, red dye fades rapidly in sunlight. Sun didn't work. It doesn't penetrate the stone. I seriously have 1-2mm to grind away still, depending on what part of the dome we're talking about. I'll try the bleach, if the other solutions don't work.
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Post by Pat on Nov 24, 2018 23:37:02 GMT -5
I use an aluminum stone marking pencil. It’s like an aluminum nail.
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Post by stephan on Nov 25, 2018 2:43:32 GMT -5
I use an aluminum stone marking pencil. It’s like an aluminum nail. I do have a scribe.... somewhere.
Again, it would work now with freeforms, but I was trying to find something I could see through the swarf when I was attempting calibrated shapes. Also, I'm more patient now, and rinse the stone with a squirt bottle now, so that I can see what I'm doing. Usually. Some are awfully mussy. The sad part is that OJ is not one of those muddy ones. The ironic part is that the muddy ones are usually red. <SIGH>.
All great suggestions, and lesson learned.
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Post by vegasjames on Nov 25, 2018 2:58:40 GMT -5
I sometimes use aluminum wire on darker stones to mark them but otherwise generally use colored pencils from the .99 Store. They are kind of a waxy pencil.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 3:49:12 GMT -5
I've never found acetone does a good job on sharpie marks. 99-100% isopropyl alcohol usually works better, but yeah, it can soak down into the stone and be impossible to get out - I've had it happen with other ink colors. Sunlight with enough UV is going to turn any translucent bluish tones in Polka Dot agate opaque white without getting rid of the pink. I've used aluminum wire and acrylic paint pens, which hold up under water spray during sanding without penetrating into the stone.
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mossyrockhound
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2011
Posts: 1,278
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Post by mossyrockhound on Nov 25, 2018 17:21:55 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. I usually mark out my cabs just before trimming & grinding so I haven't had this problem. I'm a little surprised that polkadot agate absorbed the ink as it is one of the harder agates.
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Post by stephan on Nov 25, 2018 23:09:55 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. I usually mark out my cabs just before trimming & grinding so I haven't had this problem. I'm a little surprised that polkadot agate absorbed the ink as it is one of the harder agates. It's actually Ocean jasper, but, yeah, same deal.
And yeah, this one was marked out probably at least a week before the initial cut. I used to go to the club and cab, and then when I came home channel the excitement into marking the next week's candidates (and usually not get to all of them).
I'm half-thinking about picking the brains of the chemists at work. They can probably come up with a nasty solvent mix that'll take care of it. And, if not, I can always set it on fire. Mwah ha ha ha!
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Post by spiceman on Nov 25, 2018 23:14:03 GMT -5
WD40 might be worth a try. It removes tar, bugs along with many other things. If the red is a pigment ink, good luck. Not many solves will touch pigment ink. Since you can't rub the surface.
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Post by stephan on Nov 26, 2018 0:30:04 GMT -5
The odd thing is, it doesn't soak into glass at all, and about 20% alcohol will make it run. 50% will remove it completely.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 26, 2018 1:49:23 GMT -5
While I've never used red Sharpies for marking stones I do use black and from time to time change my mind or mark one off center and need to remove the ink. I've found that Lacquer Thinner works much better than acetone for removing black Sharpie ink. Let the stone soak submerged overnight in lacquer thinner (NOT paint thinner)in a sealed solvent resistant container at room temperature. This has always worked better as the first course of action. The times I've tried a different weaker solvent like acetone first the ink becomes more difficult to remove. But a lengthy soaking in lacquer thinner usually will unless it's just too soft or porous of a material and the ink is set too deeply into the surface.
Larry C.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Nov 27, 2018 17:03:22 GMT -5
I feel your pain. I read a post once about coloring all over the surface of your cab, and then grinding it off, twice, at each grit, to get a good shine. The author of the post used sharpie so I did too. On a lace agate. You wouldn't believe how deeply that sharpie wicked into the stone. Totally ruined it. Now I use pencil!!!
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Post by stephan on Nov 28, 2018 8:48:09 GMT -5
I've found that Lacquer Thinner works much better than acetone for removing black Sharpie ink. Let the stone soak submerged overnight in lacquer thinner (NOT paint thinner)in a sealed solvent resistant container at room temperature. This has always worked better as the first course of action. The times I've tried a different weaker solvent like acetone first the ink becomes more difficult to remove. But a lengthy soaking in lacquer thinner usually will unless it's just too soft or porous of a material and the ink is set too deeply into the surface. Larry C. I guess that would be your chemist-created mix of nasty solvents. In the meantime, 100% isopropanol seems to be working gradually. While not "stronger" than acetone, per se, it is more polar.
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Post by stephan on Nov 28, 2018 8:54:00 GMT -5
I feel your pain. I read a post once about coloring all over the surface of your cab, and then grinding it off, twice, at each grit, to get a good shine. The author of the post used sharpie so I did too. On a lace agate. You wouldn't believe how deeply that sharpie wicked into the stone. Totally ruined it. Now I use pencil!!! I've done that, too. I was taught to mark up the tops of cabs to find scratches, and had it penetrate deep into a porous stone (which I don't think is the problem here with high quality OJ). After that, I found metallic silver Sharpie really doesn't penetrate. It also holds up well enough to mark cabs, and is visible on dark stones. To play it safe, though, I might go with the waxy colored pencil method suggested by vegasjames.
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Post by stephan on Dec 15, 2018 20:17:41 GMT -5
Success, I think
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