|
|
Post by johnw on Feb 9, 2019 13:30:47 GMT -5
given time is infinite and the event as we theorize it took place at a point in time. That is not necessarily true. Scientists are still quarreling A LOT about that one.  It could have taken a place at a point in time, or it could have been the beginning of time itself, meaning: there could have been something before the Big bang, or there was no "before" to be anything in there. Nobody really knows. Your comment needs to be tweaked a bit to acknowledge time is infinite. There is no such thing as the beginning of time, it has always been. Now, over at The Big Crazy's Pastry Shop we tell youngsters a story about the Universe and we start our story by saying "Once upon a Time" one of the many black holes that exist in the Universe imploded on itself and expelled matter in every direction and we are part of all that matter and this rock we live on is called the Earth. When asked what is a black hole is we tell them they are like a big vacuum that sucks everything into themselves until it cannot take anymore and then it implodes upon itself and scatters all the matter everywhere and we have what is called a galaxy, and, if you look up into the sky you can see many, many galaxies that are generally swirling around a black hole and it will eventually suck them up and spit them out again. And so it has been and always will be. Cute story, but if you dissect the basic elements it makes infinite sense. A steady state of continuous evolution. The part that is decidedly hard to grasp is how did it all start and since we have not yet developed physics to support that answer, we must, are you ready, take it on faith as being so........... Cheers, johnw |
|
Kai
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2018
Posts: 331
|
Post by Kai on Feb 9, 2019 15:22:59 GMT -5
...and precisely because we have not yet developed physics enough to answer this question in either one or the other way, you cannot claim with 100% certainty that time has always been. It might have not. We don't know that. We may believe it, but we can't know.
|
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Feb 9, 2019 15:45:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by johnw on Feb 9, 2019 18:29:45 GMT -5
...and precisely because we have not yet developed physics enough to answer this question in either one or the other way, you cannot claim with 100% certainty that time has always been. It might have not. We don't know that. We may believe it, but we can't know. Look at it another way...........time is something we are living with in a Universe that is infinite. Time cannot be stopped because it is. One second before the Big Bang there was time. It is illogical to say, oops, we just had a big bang so we are now going to start recording time. Our Big Bang started 13.8 billion years ago and we see with awe what resulted. Thru out the infinite Universe, Big Bang's aka Black Holes spew out planets and stars in that area of the Universe and the process continues and never ends. It is know as a steady state of constant evolution and cannot be refuted. Anyone want to challenge this? Cheers, johnw |
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
|
Post by gemfeller on Feb 9, 2019 18:53:38 GMT -5
...and precisely because we have not yet developed physics enough to answer this question in either one or the other way, you cannot claim with 100% certainty that time has always been. It might have not. We don't know that. We may believe it, but we can't know. Look at it another way...........time is something we are living with in a Universe that is infinite. Time cannot be stopped because it is. One second before the Big Bang there was time. It is illogical to say, oops, we just had a big bang so we are now going to start recording time. Our Big Bang started 13.8 billion years ago and we see with awe what resulted. Thru out the infinite Universe, Big Bang's aka Black Holes spew out planets and stars in that area of the Universe and the process continues and never ends. It is know as a steady state of constant evolution and cannot be refuted. Anyone want to challenge this? Cheers, johnw I won't challenge it but I think if you can prove the above thesis mathematically you'll win a Nobel Prize -- maybe two or three. I'll be waiting to see you on stage in Oslo. |
|
|
|
Post by johnw on Feb 9, 2019 19:19:59 GMT -5
parfive Profound, thanks for sharing and now brought to you as a vision of the singularity event that will occur when the galaxies collide and trigger the black hole reaction that is at the center of the Milky Way, here they be: “The Singularity Visual, one-millionth of a second before collapse”.  All the planets, suns and stars from the Milky Way and Andomeda Galaxy being compressed in a Black Hole exaactly one millionth of a second before the Big Bang. Awesome.......Cheers, johnw
|
|
|
|
Post by johnw on Feb 9, 2019 19:47:13 GMT -5
Kai Look at it another way...........time is something we are living with in a Universe that is infinite. Time cannot be stopped because it is. One second before the Big Bang there was time. It is illogical to say, oops, we just had a big bang so we are now going to start recording time. Our Big Bang started 13.8 billion years ago and we see with awe what resulted. Thru out the infinite Universe, Big Bang's aka Black Holes spew out planets and stars in that area of the Universe and the process continues and never ends. It is know as a steady state of constant evolution and cannot be refuted. Anyone want to challenge this? Cheers, johnw I won't challenge it but I think if you can prove the above thesis mathematically you'll win a Nobel Prize -- maybe two or three. I'll be waiting to see you on stage in Oslo. I welcome you to join me. Cheers, johnw |
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Feb 9, 2019 21:23:29 GMT -5
given time is infinite and the event as we theorize it took place at a point in time. That is not necessarily true. Scientists are still quarreling A LOT about that one. It could have taken a place at a point in time, or it could have been the beginning of time itself, meaning: there could have been something before the Big bang, or there was no "before" to be anything in there. Nobody really knows. But we have OPINIONS which are far more important than mere facts. |
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Feb 9, 2019 21:27:31 GMT -5
johnw - sorry, I have been to a funeral the last couple of days. It looks to me like we have gone as far as we can with this subject. What is time? How can anything be without beginning or end? Here everything has a beginning and an end.
|
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Feb 9, 2019 23:38:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Feb 10, 2019 0:22:27 GMT -5
How?
It obeys gravitational forces.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnw on Feb 10, 2019 1:45:06 GMT -5
1dave Hi Dave, this has been an interesting discussion and we have had some fine conversations to support opinions on this basic of all questions being "how did it all start." I have made my opinion on this subject known since it is what I can believe and make infinite sense of and "see" how it could be. Other people have concepts and beliefs and so they should since each have their own path to follow. We could go on as long as we need, but since you started this thread and now want to end it. I believe it fitting that it end like so. Α Ω
|
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Feb 10, 2019 5:11:17 GMT -5
johnw as always this thread will continue as long as any RTHer wants it to. 50 years ago when the possibility of black holes first came up they were described as "singularities," the same terminology previously used to describe the big bang. That is when I first started "preaching" about us being inside a black hole.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Feb 12, 2019 13:50:16 GMT -5
Since the subject of galactic collisions has been featured in this thread, I thought I'd remind you folks that we'll all have time for a second cup of coffee before that cataclysmic event. While he Milky Way's on a direct collision course with Andromeda, the Large Magellanic Cloud is a bigger threat. But it won't happen for a while so I think we can relax for the moment. What's most interesting to me is the new data collected by Gaia. www.space.com/43267-milky-way-andromeda-collision-later.html |
|
|
|
Post by mohs on Feb 12, 2019 14:39:10 GMT -5
i got the pot on
|
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Feb 12, 2019 15:16:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Feb 12, 2019 15:28:02 GMT -5
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Feb 12, 2019 15:42:31 GMT -5
If Planck's Quantum Theory is right (and it seems to work in a practical way), interstellar space may not even exist. Einstein rejected what he called "spooky action at a distance" (Quantum Entanglement), but it has now been experimentally proven. It pressents some very interesting potential consequences. Check out Nova's segment "Einstein's Quantum Dillema" at this link: www.pbs.org/show/nova/ |
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,625
|
Post by RWA3006 on Mar 16, 2019 15:22:08 GMT -5
1dave Hi Dave, this has been an interesting discussion and we have had some fine conversations to support opinions on this basic of all questions being "how did it all start." I have made my opinion on this subject known since it is what I can believe and make infinite sense of and "see" how it could be. Other people have concepts and beliefs and so they should since each have their own path to follow. We could go on as long as we need, but since you started this thread and now want to end it. I believe it fitting that it end like so. Α Ω I look at the date of this post and with poignant feelings wonder if our friend found answers to questions this thread asked? I suppose when we step from time into eternity we might learn a thing or two. |
|
|
|
Post by mohs on Mar 16, 2019 15:41:55 GMT -5
well rw That's a fuzzy wuzzy question Being that we have mostly figured out the physical universe (which is quite an accomplishment) What i mean... is the gross physicalness of it Yet knowing the H2O formula Doesn’t much help a drowning mankind ha Philosophy as been that study of preparing for the end At least that what many classics teach What else can we do ? Being that I’m seeing the end speeding up fast I sort of hope for instant illumination  and if its just lights out ? then I'm prepared for that to ithink m  stly Of course the more interesting question is: What did I do between the 2 eternities? Even more important … How as certain metaphysical beliefs condition behavior? Free will and all that... I want to believe my hearts intention is pretty good Yet some of this over thinking can really be frustrating I try not to let any of it petrify into a dogma Maybe that where I'm wrong? Guess I’ll find out on the other side /// ___________________________________________________ I think I might need to add little more clarification To my gross physicality statement I think it great that science as laid out so much the shape of the earth, plate tectonic, strong origin of the universe, the rise of life, unbelievable pictures of the cosmos, quantum mechanic ectt/ that all awesome mind blowing and adds to the sense of wonder and special ness of consciousness Nonetheless ya kind would hope for something more O I don’t know,,,maybe some huge crystal pyramid Out in the middle of endless space With symbols embossed on its that says: Your getting hot
Keep on searching Just some sign of higher destiny design Yet HomoFaber Is deathly good at technology! Without a doubt -consciousness of some sort Is going to outlast the death of the universe Who knows? We may be the perfect crystal; pyramids builders symbolically speaking... |
|
stly 
