ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 3, 2020 16:08:07 GMT -5
Thank you ingawh , this is using sugar, psyllium, and AO500. Much more shine than I had before.  wow, that looks great! are you using ceramic media? I'm currently trying to adopt some of ingawh 's methods but having a real hard time getting the motion right, in the vibe (lot-o) with the aquarium gravel. it just kind of bogs down. (i had been thinking maybe it was too much (or too little) added stuff (i'm currently trying psyllium, sugar and soap when needed) but I just started up with nothing but the gravel and my rocks to check and nope, it must be the gravel. (I LOVE this gravel, so much more interesting than ceramics and lots of size/shape variation! But it just doesn't give me the rolling motion I feel like I should have. Thinking of trying a mix of gravel and ceramics in this next run.) |
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EricD
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High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 3, 2020 17:36:18 GMT -5
Thank you ingawh , this is using sugar, psyllium, and AO500. Much more shine than I had before. wow, that looks great! are you using ceramic media? I'm currently trying to adopt some of ingawh 's methods but having a real hard time getting the motion right, in the vibe (lot-o) with the aquarium gravel. it just kind of bogs down. (i had been thinking maybe it was too much (or too little) added stuff (i'm currently trying psyllium, sugar and soap when needed) but I just started up with nothing but the gravel and my rocks to check and nope, it must be the gravel. (I LOVE this gravel, so much more interesting than ceramics and lots of size/shape variation! But it just doesn't give me the rolling motion I feel like I should have. Thinking of trying a mix of gravel and ceramics in this next run.) Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should |
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Post by knave on Jul 3, 2020 18:57:13 GMT -5
Ataraktos yes that was using ceramic mostly large
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 4, 2020 9:42:16 GMT -5
wow, that looks great! are you using ceramic media? I'm currently trying to adopt some of ingawh 's methods but having a real hard time getting the motion right, in the vibe (lot-o) with the aquarium gravel. it just kind of bogs down. (i had been thinking maybe it was too much (or too little) added stuff (i'm currently trying psyllium, sugar and soap when needed) but I just started up with nothing but the gravel and my rocks to check and nope, it must be the gravel. (I LOVE this gravel, so much more interesting than ceramics and lots of size/shape variation! But it just doesn't give me the rolling motion I feel like I should have. Thinking of trying a mix of gravel and ceramics in this next run.) Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should ahhhh, i just mixed in half ceramics for this load, should've checked here first! i briefly thought maybe i had a broken spring but a barrel of all ceramics rolls fine. if this mix is still weird, i'll go back to all gravel and try 2 inches from the top. the gravel IS heavy ... if this mix rolls ok, i'll try all gravel, less 2 inches next time. thanks! |
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 6, 2020 13:48:46 GMT -5
wow, that looks great! are you using ceramic media? I'm currently trying to adopt some of ingawh 's methods but having a real hard time getting the motion right, in the vibe (lot-o) with the aquarium gravel. it just kind of bogs down. (i had been thinking maybe it was too much (or too little) added stuff (i'm currently trying psyllium, sugar and soap when needed) but I just started up with nothing but the gravel and my rocks to check and nope, it must be the gravel. (I LOVE this gravel, so much more interesting than ceramics and lots of size/shape variation! But it just doesn't give me the rolling motion I feel like I should have. Thinking of trying a mix of gravel and ceramics in this next run.) Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should Tried the 2 inches on this next batch and with all gravel and wow, running much better. At least to start - thanks! (Kiddo *loves* looking at all the shiny pebbles too, so extra incentive to make the gravel work! =) |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 6, 2020 14:07:22 GMT -5
Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should Tried the 2 inches on this next batch and with all gravel and wow, running much better. At least to start - thanks! (Kiddo *loves* looking at all the shiny pebbles too, so extra incentive to make the gravel work! =) I SMH every time I overload the barrel, but that doesn't keep me from doing it at least one in 5 loads anyway.  |
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 6, 2020 15:06:12 GMT -5
Tried the 2 inches on this next batch and with all gravel and wow, running much better. At least to start - thanks! (Kiddo *loves* looking at all the shiny pebbles too, so extra incentive to make the gravel work! =) I SMH every time I overload the barrel, but that doesn't keep me from doing it at least one in 5 loads anyway. Maybe I've never not overloaded the barrel ... sigh. Should've gotten the double lot-o, LOL. Fill one barrel and then split it between the two! =) Thanks again! |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 6, 2020 18:11:21 GMT -5
I SMH every time I overload the barrel, but that doesn't keep me from doing it at least one in 5 loads anyway. Maybe I've never not overloaded the barrel ... sigh. Should've gotten the double lot-o, LOL. Fill one barrel and then split it between the two! =) Thanks again! Wanna trade? I should have got a single barrel |
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 6, 2020 21:38:52 GMT -5
Maybe I've never not overloaded the barrel ... sigh. Should've gotten the double lot-o, LOL. Fill one barrel and then split it between the two! =) Thanks again! Wanna trade? I should have got a single barrel By the time we ship, Montana to DC and back, probably half-way to purchasing new ones! (I think mine will even out eventually and I'll probably have trouble keeping the single Lot-o fed, just have had a bit of a back-up recently. I honestly don't even know how that happened, as long as I keep things going in the rotary.) I also think, somehow, learning the motor is the same in the double and the single, led me to think I couldn't really overload the single? |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 7, 2020 7:22:04 GMT -5
Wanna trade? I should have got a single barrel By the time we ship, Montana to DC and back, probably half-way to purchasing new ones! (I think mine will even out eventually and I'll probably have trouble keeping the single Lot-o fed, just have had a bit of a back-up recently. I honestly don't even know how that happened, as long as I keep things going in the rotary.) I also think, somehow, learning the motor is the same in the double and the single, led me to think I couldn't really overload the single? It's the shape of the barrel that is overloaded and hinders circulation, not the motor. Once it's overfull instead of just rolling over at the top and cycling back under the rocks are having to be compressed into a bottleneck at the top each time they surface, which greatly slows the cycle and perhaps even stops it sometimes.
The motor can obviously circulate twice what you can load in a single Lot-O, since it handles the twin Lot-O just as easily as a single barrel version. It may be able to handle even 3 or 4 times the load. Add to that if you adjust the "tuning bar" you can greatly increase the vibration, enough to damage rocks/break springs.
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 7, 2020 14:00:06 GMT -5
By the time we ship, Montana to DC and back, probably half-way to purchasing new ones! (I think mine will even out eventually and I'll probably have trouble keeping the single Lot-o fed, just have had a bit of a back-up recently. I honestly don't even know how that happened, as long as I keep things going in the rotary.) I also think, somehow, learning the motor is the same in the double and the single, led me to think I couldn't really overload the single? It's the shape of the barrel that is overloaded and hinders circulation, not the motor. Once it's overfull instead of just rolling over at the top and cycling back under the rocks are having to be compressed into a bottleneck at the top each time they surface, which greatly slows the cycle and perhaps even stops it sometimes.
The motor can obviously circulate twice what you can load in a single Lot-O, since it handles the twin Lot-O just as easily as a single barrel version. It may be able to handle even 3 or 4 times the load. Add to that if you adjust the "tuning bar" you can greatly increase the vibration, enough to damage rocks/break springs.
Lord help me, I hope I never have to fiddle with those tuning bars! Mine has damaged a few rocks as it is and I've been trying to find a way to make it a tad less aggressive. But not all locked together in a big blob! Borax, I've found, will bog down after a while and there's no saving it. Currently trying sugar, psyllium and liquid soap. Whole process reminds me of baking bread and how depending on the weather/humidity, you always have to toy with the recipe! It's bizarre to me though, how I can fill the barrel up much higher with ceramic media than aquarium gravel and still get good motion. My guess is it's something to do with how the vibration transfers through the material. Like with the more angular ceramics, maybe there's more spaces in between, to keep the vibes alive? I don't know, physics and mechanics aren't my strong suit. Aquarium gravel is like a bigger version of those 2mm ceramic polish beads, which, for anyone thinking of buying any, completely DO NOT work in the lot-o. (But with your suggested 2 inches, motion with inga's gravel is good and only slowing down as usual with slurry build-up in 120/220!) |
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jul 7, 2020 17:16:13 GMT -5
"Currently trying sugar, psyllium and liquid soap"
The above mixture would be very hard to adjust, there are too many components involved.
I would suggest wet and drained rocks, sugar to adjust the action to your liking. May only take a tablespoon. 120/220 may take none. Depends on the action before you add anything. Pay attention to how it moves before you add.
Then 1 tablespoon 120/220 SiC, or
1 teaspoon AO500, or
1/2 teaspoon of AO polish
Those are the 3 stages I use in the Lot-O and get stellar results with little tending after the 120/220 mudbath.
The 500 and polish runs rarely need to be checked, maybe once a day if that.
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 9, 2020 17:21:46 GMT -5
"Currently trying sugar, psyllium and liquid soap" The above mixture would be very hard to adjust, there are too many components involved. I would suggest wet and drained rocks, sugar to adjust the action to your liking. May only take a tablespoon. 120/220 may take none. Depends on the action before you add anything. Pay attention to how it moves before you add. Then 1 tablespoon 120/220 SiC, or 1 teaspoon AO500, or 1/2 teaspoon of AO polish Those are the 3 stages I use in the Lot-O and get stellar results with little tending after the 120/220 mudbath. The 500 and polish runs rarely need to be checked, maybe once a day if that. My problem in the past has been chipping, in the lot-o. Like, the vulgarity of language spewed after that little monster dings up stones that spent SO many weeks in course ... hence the sugar AND psyllium (just a smidge, and mostly to adjust if I go overboard with spraying. Overboard can feel like one spray too many). Soap I sometimes add to try to add a bit more grit and go a little longer without a cleanout. With ceramics, it was taking a little under 24 hours before 1 tablespoon of grit was used up. But with gravel, the slurry is smooth after 8-10ish hours. Some people suggest 2 tablespoons of 120/220. I've never been able to make that work. I haven't had any dings, yet, though, using gravel so perhaps I'm being over-cautious. I'll soon get this batch going in 500AO, will see how it does. I'm hoping to get back to the very low maintenance finishing stages with gravel, that I had with ceramics. Minus the dings. |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 9, 2020 20:00:01 GMT -5
"Currently trying sugar, psyllium and liquid soap" The above mixture would be very hard to adjust, there are too many components involved. I would suggest wet and drained rocks, sugar to adjust the action to your liking. May only take a tablespoon. 120/220 may take none. Depends on the action before you add anything. Pay attention to how it moves before you add. Then 1 tablespoon 120/220 SiC, or 1 teaspoon AO500, or 1/2 teaspoon of AO polish Those are the 3 stages I use in the Lot-O and get stellar results with little tending after the 120/220 mudbath. The 500 and polish runs rarely need to be checked, maybe once a day if that. My problem in the past has been chipping, in the lot-o. Like, the vulgarity of language spewed after that little monster dings up stones that spent SO many weeks in course ... hence the sugar AND psyllium (just a smidge, and mostly to adjust if I go overboard with spraying. Overboard can feel like one spray too many). Soap I sometimes add to try to add a bit more grit and go a little longer without a cleanout. With ceramics, it was taking a little under 24 hours before 1 tablespoon of grit was used up. But with gravel, the slurry is smooth after 8-10ish hours. Some people suggest 2 tablespoons of 120/220. I've never been able to make that work. I haven't had any dings, yet, though, using gravel so perhaps I'm being over-cautious. I'll soon get this batch going in 500AO, will see how it does. I'm hoping to get back to the very low maintenance finishing stages with gravel, that I had with ceramics. Minus the dings. Try to limit the amount of larger stones in your barrels. The more large stones you have in a barrel, the more forces (and impacts) they see. If you have a stone that will almost not fit in the barrel, run nothing but that one stone and media. If you have a rock that is 2", run only that one with some smaller ones and media. You see how this goes from here, I'm sure. |
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 12, 2020 10:44:13 GMT -5
My problem in the past has been chipping, in the lot-o. Like, the vulgarity of language spewed after that little monster dings up stones that spent SO many weeks in course ... hence the sugar AND psyllium (just a smidge, and mostly to adjust if I go overboard with spraying. Overboard can feel like one spray too many). Soap I sometimes add to try to add a bit more grit and go a little longer without a cleanout. With ceramics, it was taking a little under 24 hours before 1 tablespoon of grit was used up. But with gravel, the slurry is smooth after 8-10ish hours. Some people suggest 2 tablespoons of 120/220. I've never been able to make that work. I haven't had any dings, yet, though, using gravel so perhaps I'm being over-cautious. I'll soon get this batch going in 500AO, will see how it does. I'm hoping to get back to the very low maintenance finishing stages with gravel, that I had with ceramics. Minus the dings. Try to limit the amount of larger stones in your barrels. The more large stones you have in a barrel, the more forces (and impacts) they see. If you have a stone that will almost not fit in the barrel, run nothing but that one stone and media. If you have a rock that is 2", run only that one with some smaller ones and media. You see how this goes from here, I'm sure. Yeah, nothing huge, I think my motion was a tad violent. Could be my setup/cinder blocks/etc. Good news, though - on to a so-far zero adjustments needed (not even a drop of water) at the half-way point of 500 AO stage, with all gravel and 2 inches of free space! =D |
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jaime
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2020
Posts: 16
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Post by jaime on Jul 22, 2020 1:23:56 GMT -5
wow, that looks great! are you using ceramic media? I'm currently trying to adopt some of ingawh 's methods but having a real hard time getting the motion right, in the vibe (lot-o) with the aquarium gravel. it just kind of bogs down. (i had been thinking maybe it was too much (or too little) added stuff (i'm currently trying psyllium, sugar and soap when needed) but I just started up with nothing but the gravel and my rocks to check and nope, it must be the gravel. (I LOVE this gravel, so much more interesting than ceramics and lots of size/shape variation! But it just doesn't give me the rolling motion I feel like I should have. Thinking of trying a mix of gravel and ceramics in this next run.) Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should I’m in the exact same boat as EricD as far at the bogging down part. Even when I added a few teaspoons of ceramic balls that threw the mix off and the rolling nearly stopped. I’ve tried it with less rocks and have not had luck. I haven’t tried sugar yet. Hopefully I’ll get the hang of it. |
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jul 22, 2020 17:19:16 GMT -5
Try loading the barrel lighter. About 2" from the top of the opening and let me know if that works more like you think it should I’m in the exact same boat as EricD as far at the bogging down part. Even when I added a few teaspoons of ceramic balls that threw the mix off and the rolling nearly stopped. I’ve tried it with less rocks and have not had luck. I haven’t tried sugar yet. Hopefully I’ll get the hang of it. The 2mm ceramic polishing spheres? If so, they seem completely useless for the lot-o! (Anyone know any other uses for them? Right now, I'm planning to use 'em to decorate homemade christmas tree ornaments! ;-) Even bigger, perfectly round things, I'm guessing would behave similarly? My polish beads just rolled and spun in place and nothing could get enough traction to move really. That's what it seemed like, anyway the one time I tried the ceramic spheres (for like 10 minutes, tops). I didn't get the bogging down with just rocks and the oblong ceramic cylinders. Bogging down only started happening when I started trying to thicken my slurry with sugar or borax to avoid chipping. If you're having bogging down issues already, adding sugar probably won't help. Besides the general recipe info earlier in this thread, these other threads might have some info that's useful: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/88524/lot-polish-stage-issueforum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/81321/lot-wood-dowel-helpforum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/75658/change-lot-speed-help |
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rockngranny
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 13
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Post by rockngranny on Aug 25, 2020 16:02:10 GMT -5
Trying to figure out how to start a thread, or find the answer that may have been previously discussed.
With the Covid thing Lortone 4 Step Grits are hard to find ( at a reasonable price).
I see on line that Johnson Bros has a small 4 step kits... they seem to have a different material for steps 3 and 4.
Do they work as well?
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Aug 25, 2020 17:58:16 GMT -5
Trying to figure out how to start a thread, or find the answer that may have been previously discussed. With the Covid thing Lortone 4 Step Grits are hard to find ( at a reasonable price). I see on line that Johnson Bros has a small 4 step kits... they seem to have a different material for steps 3 and 4. Do they work as well? take a look here: The Rock Shed /grit |
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Post by Mel on Sept 24, 2020 13:43:45 GMT -5
Since you guys have way more experience with vibratory tumblers than I, is there any real difference between the Lot-O and the UV Vibe models? I haven't been able to find a source for the Lot-O's in Canada, but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.
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