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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 15:46:51 GMT -5
Lots of new cabbers here. I was having a conversation with one and he wasn't aware of the need for the angle cut on the girdle- something that doesn't get talked a lot about. It made me think maybe we need a fresh thread about all the finer points of cabbing. How do you polish the backs with wheels?? What is the proper girdle angle and how do you do it?? What is wrong with sharp tips/corners?? What's up with that bevel cut on the bottom?? How thick a girdle is too thick?? What's too thin?? Etc. I'm sure there are lots more questions people have, so go ahead and ask here. Let's pitch in with our opinions (and the reasons for them) and throw in some tips to get people started. Understand, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe something someone says here will be the proverbial lightbulb for someone.
UPDATE
Our member standles has graciously provided a digest version of this thread to make it easier to find what you are looking for. It is currently a 20 page pdf with links to the different subjects. Thank you so much for this time consuming effort Steven! I'm sure lots of people will find it helpful.
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Post by miket on Apr 18, 2019 15:55:53 GMT -5
I'll be watching this one closely. Someone has already been VERY helpful in giving me tips as I am starting to get into cabbing (you know who you are  )but I know that I have a lot to learn. I really don't have any new questions that I can think of at this moment- I'm sure the first time I try to wrap something that I've made I'll have a ton. Thanks for starting this, Tela! |
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Post by MsAli on Apr 18, 2019 15:57:48 GMT -5
Great idea Tela!
The one thing ive noticed is like most things there are many ways to skin a cat and many opinions on how to do it.
When I went out to take "lessons" I basically was told there are the machines and go for it and Oh you are not doing that right or that looks good, so basically it was a waste of my time and I am still teaching myself.
Some turn out great and others I set aside because it just isnt coming together.
I would like to eventually sell some so I want the best outcome I can get.
My main problem still to this day is a flat spot (i'll upload a pic of an example)
I am a very visual person so I think if anyone has diagrams (@hookedonrocks) and or videos they would like to upload that would be awesome!
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Post by MsAli on Apr 18, 2019 16:02:23 GMT -5
This is my trouble spot. I went back a wheel and it's better but still there and this stuff is so soft  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:06:47 GMT -5
When I first started cabbing, I loved shapes with sharp points- especially after I learned how to do it without dipping into the girdle. I still love geometric shapes and prefer stones with angles. I like to wrap them and I like to cab them. THEN I learned how to do silver smithing. I had this one trillion cut aztec lace that was gorgeous and needed to go in a bezel setting. But, try as I may, I never could get the bezel wire around those angled sharp corners. It was then that I learned the virtue of "easing" the corners. Now when I cut an angle, I keep it sharp until about the third wheel and then knock it down some. Of course, it somewhat depends on the material, too, and how much you want to knock it back. Sometimes I do it on the 220.
I dop. I have short, arthritic fingers and I have long nails that I'd like to keep. So, I do all my cabbing on the stick. I mount it with the front facing out and start shaping on the 80 with it. I have learned how to angle the dop stick for the proper angle on the girdle. If I keep the dopstick oriented the right way, my girdle is fine. I know a lot of people mark their girdle lines, but I just eyeball it while I'm on the 80 grit. I cut down a little more than I need to so I can make sure to get all the scratches out at 220 without thickening up the girdle too much.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:11:25 GMT -5
This is my trouble spot. I went back a wheel and it's better but still there and this stuff is so soft That is classic. You are not doming correctly. When you make your first angled cut up into the middle, go back and knock down the ridge you made, making sure that it too is angled up towards the middle. You are trying to go from a low point near the girdle all the way to the middle. You need an intermediary step to bridge the gap. Then it's ezpz. Just rock the stone to close up the gap. There is a diagram online somewhere. I'll try to find it. |
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romo
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2018
Posts: 104
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Post by romo on Apr 18, 2019 16:15:04 GMT -5
Thank you for starting this! I am also struggling with flat top syndrome and doing flat backs on the wheels along with a host of other things like stabilizers and mixed hardness...the list goes on!
Ali, our rock club gives out a 3 page guide with illustrations to all new cabbers, if I can't find mine I'll grab one and upload on Monday.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:15:15 GMT -5
You see- after the first cut in, you need to make another. This diagram is from a Master. I generally don't make 3 cuts, but 2. But, I like lower domes.  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:18:18 GMT -5
Thank you for starting this! I am also struggling with flat top syndrome and doing flat backs on the wheels along with a host of other things like stabilizers and mixed hardness...the list goes on! Ali, our rock club gives out a 3 page guide with illustrations to all new cabbers, if I can't find mine I'll grab one and upload on Monday. Strictly speaking, you really can not polish a back with a wheel. The center will never polish. UNLESS you rock the stone, but then you won't have a flat bottom anymore. You need to use a flat lap, or settle for a less than perfect polish. If anyone else knows how- then please share. I was always under the understanding that you can't polish a flat with a round wheel. |
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 18, 2019 16:24:49 GMT -5
Awesome rockjunquie! Will be sitting on this thread like a sponge. Al |
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:27:09 GMT -5
Awesome rockjunquie ! Will be sitting on this thread like a sponge. Al I hope some pros chime in with some tips! You're never too old or smart to learn something new. |
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 18, 2019 16:34:01 GMT -5
Before I started cabbing and before anyone had heard of etsy, My wife bought a lot of cabs from many people on ebay including some of the best cabbers. I found there is a lot of variation in technique and quality of work. Looking at the best work, it gave me a standard that I needed to come close to.
I know my strengths; using interesting material, design and centering the dome. My weaknesses are edges and girdles and paying attention to detail. I miss scratches until the cab is polished. My girdles were a lot better years ago. I should know my own technique. Either it will take a while to get back to speed after a long layoff or being too impatient.
I have very sensitive fingers and have more control without a dop. I started using a dop because dopless cabbing is hard on the fingers. When I was working, I had a week between sessions for my fingers to heal. Superglue has been working out well. I'm thinking of double dopping. Shape the preform, dop and cut the dome, remove the dop and work on the edges/girdle, redop sand and polish.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 16:39:18 GMT -5
How serendipitous- I just got a message from a client who said she wished the back of the stone was polished. I don't polish the backs- obviously. I'd like to start, but I don't want to have to use another machine to do it. I am strapped for room as it is.
For you guys who polish your backs- how do you do it and with what?
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 18, 2019 16:49:54 GMT -5
How serendipitous- I just got a message from a client who said she wished the back of the stone was polished. I don't polish the backs- obviously. I'd like to start, but I don't want to have to use another machine to do it. I am strapped for room as it is. For you guys who polish your backs- how do you do it and with what? Okay, here is a question I have wondered about. Please no one take offense by how this is worded. Are there any "real" cab makers (as in actually using a cabbing machine) who finish their cabs in a vibratory tumbler to have polished backs? Yes I am aware that some people shape the stones via other methods and use a vibe to finish, so just responses to the above please. Thanks, Al |
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Post by Starguy on Apr 18, 2019 16:53:24 GMT -5
Tela’s angle description diagram is perfect. I never polish the back of a cab. The only way to polish a flat surface is with a facetting machine or a flat lap. It takes a lot of time to polish flats.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller 
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,650 
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 18, 2019 17:02:29 GMT -5
How serendipitous- I just got a message from a client who said she wished the back of the stone was polished. I don't polish the backs- obviously. I'd like to start, but I don't want to have to use another machine to do it. I am strapped for room as it is. For you guys who polish your backs- how do you do it and with what? Tela, I have a pal who does it by hand and he makes it look easy. He just uses wet/dry silicon sand paper and places it on a flat plate of granite that's about 8" square. Then he places the stone on it and uses a back and forth motion, alternating direction between grits so he can make sure scratches are gone. He uses a little water on it and takes it to 1500 grit and finishes on a buffer wheel. It's a bit harder to do with smaller cabs because there's less to hang onto. |
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Post by Starguy on Apr 18, 2019 17:08:53 GMT -5
This is the only cab I have ever tried to polish the back of. It is a star sapphire from Burgdorf Idaho. The crystal structure was so cool I couldn’t help myself. It took a couple hours with a faceting machine to get it to this point. It still doesn’t have a very good polish.  Hear are some Idaho garnet cabs. The tops are finished to 50k grit. The backs only have a 100 grit finish  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 17:14:13 GMT -5
How serendipitous- I just got a message from a client who said she wished the back of the stone was polished. I don't polish the backs- obviously. I'd like to start, but I don't want to have to use another machine to do it. I am strapped for room as it is. For you guys who polish your backs- how do you do it and with what? Tela, I have a pal who does it by hand and he makes it look easy. He just uses wet/dry silicon sand paper and places it on a flat plate of granite that's about 8" square. Then he places the stone on it and uses a back and forth motion, alternating direction between grits so he can make sure scratches are gone. He uses a little water on it and takes it to 1500 grit and finishes on a buffer wheel. It's a bit harder to do with smaller cabs because there's less to hang onto. If this was strictly a hobby, I'd do that, but I would have to charge so much more for my time that no one would ever buy! LOL! I can't imagine doing that 9 or 10 times a day. Well, less cause I couldn't cab as much as I do if I had to stop and do that. |
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,650
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 18, 2019 17:23:12 GMT -5
Tela, I have a pal who does it by hand and he makes it look easy. He just uses wet/dry silicon sand paper and places it on a flat plate of granite that's about 8" square. Then he places the stone on it and uses a back and forth motion, alternating direction between grits so he can make sure scratches are gone. He uses a little water on it and takes it to 1500 grit and finishes on a buffer wheel. It's a bit harder to do with smaller cabs because there's less to hang onto. If this was strictly a hobby, I'd do that, but I would have to charge so much more for my time that no one would ever buy! LOL! I can't imagine doing that 9 or 10 times a day. Well, less cause I couldn't cab as much as I do if I had to stop and do that. You might be surprised how fast I've seen this guy do it with agate and jasper. Harder stuff would be tedious, but I ought to break out the paraphernalia and time myself. Might make a good tutorial when I get time to do it. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 18, 2019 17:24:38 GMT -5
If this was strictly a hobby, I'd do that, but I would have to charge so much more for my time that no one would ever buy! LOL! I can't imagine doing that 9 or 10 times a day. Well, less cause I couldn't cab as much as I do if I had to stop and do that. You might be surprised how fast I've seen this guy do it with agate and jasper. Harder stuff would be tedious, but I ought to break out the paraphernalia and time myself. Might make a good tutorial when I get time to do it. I've done similar with silver and copper sheet. I could try it for some really nice cabs and see how long it takes. |
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)but I know that I have a lot to learn.
