fivedirections
starting to shine!
Member since December 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by fivedirections on Mar 28, 2022 18:56:49 GMT -5
The way I have been trying to approach this is collecting dabs of the slurry at different time and letting them dry on glass slides. When I find a cord to make the light work in my microscope I cab hopefully see what happens and share images or a report. I hope to see some cool stuff no matter what. Anyone tried that? Great point, without a microscope it would be difficult to quantify small particle breakdown at the AO 500 level. I say this because it is not easy to photograph nor quantify polish quality due to several variables. For what it is worth I illustrated the breakdown of SiC 30 particles using a white background in extreme rotary conditions since SiC 30 is large enough for the human eye to see. We do spend most of our time coarse grinding so why not investigate this step. I would be glad to post my experimental methodology, process and photos if deemed pertinent to this thread. For those interested: The surprising conclusion was severe breakdown of SiC 30 after 12 hours at 60 rpm, well tuned slurry, a 6" barrel, and a broad mix of Mohs 7 rocks averaging 1.5 inches in size. Complete breakdown after 1.5 days/36 hours which taught me I needed to(or should) refresh/add coarse grit on much shorter intervals. To remove the entire batch of used SiC 30 after 12 hours of run time a meticulous separation and screening process was followed. To get an accurate assessment of the abrasive breakdown this was deemed necessary. SiC smaller than 500 is not going to shape rocks anyway so that was the screen cut off size. Fascinating! It is interesting how much of the science of polishing either has remained unknown or is squirelled away in Engeneering Textbooks away from the untrained eye. It seems like this forum would be the place to pool our experience and knowledge and arrive at a popular understanding that would inform future enthusiasts. For example I wonder as the grit breaks down in half and in half again... i wonder at what point do you start to arrive at a sort of Zeno's paradox.... when does smaller not equal sharper anymore. What exactly is going on the last 3-4 days in a rotary if things have broken down to the literal nano level? At that scale is the amount of force applied on a single molecule of Aluminum Oxide going to let it enamel into the molecules of the polished rock? Or is it even driving it past the level of kinetic or even chemical energy and causong quantum effects to bond it somehow? When you consider the fact diving into a swimming pool causes the water to boil and even cause luminescence.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Mar 28, 2022 20:23:14 GMT -5
Great point, without a microscope it would be difficult to quantify small particle breakdown at the AO 500 level. I say this because it is not easy to photograph nor quantify polish quality due to several variables. For what it is worth I illustrated the breakdown of SiC 30 particles using a white background in extreme rotary conditions since SiC 30 is large enough for the human eye to see. We do spend most of our time coarse grinding so why not investigate this step. I would be glad to post my experimental methodology, process and photos if deemed pertinent to this thread. For those interested: The surprising conclusion was severe breakdown of SiC 30 after 12 hours at 60 rpm, well tuned slurry, a 6" barrel, and a broad mix of Mohs 7 rocks averaging 1.5 inches in size. Complete breakdown after 1.5 days/36 hours which taught me I needed to(or should) refresh/add coarse grit on much shorter intervals. To remove the entire batch of used SiC 30 after 12 hours of run time a meticulous separation and screening process was followed. To get an accurate assessment of the abrasive breakdown this was deemed necessary. SiC smaller than 500 is not going to shape rocks anyway so that was the screen cut off size. Fascinating! It is interesting how much of the science of polishing either has remained unknown or is squirelled away in Engeneering Textbooks away from the untrained eye. It seems like this forum would be the place to pool our experience and knowledge and arrive at a popular understanding that would inform future enthusiasts. For example I wonder as the grit breaks down in half and in half again... i wonder at what point do you start to arrive at a sort of Zeno's paradox.... when does smaller not equal sharper anymore. What exactly is going on the last 3-4 days in a rotary if things have broken down to the literal nano level? At that scale is the amount of force applied on a single molecule of Aluminum Oxide going to let it enamel into the molecules of the polished rock? Or is it even driving it past the level of kinetic or even chemical energy and causong quantum effects to bond it somehow? When you consider the fact diving into a swimming pool causes the water to boil and even cause luminescence. Tumbling with abrasives is easily the most complicated form of abrading fivedirections. A fixed abrasive wheel is just that, it's abrasive stays the same from start to finish. Granted it is fairly simple to add abrasives, a solution and tumbles but to realize that the abrasive changes sizes to benefit a final finish is complex and subject to many variables. Selecting the proper abrasives slurry and media for different target tumbles is another whole volume. Our abrasives have already been specified by past specialists. It is a tricky process to quantify.
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,983
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Post by victor1941 on Mar 29, 2022 13:55:15 GMT -5
I am interested in what works in my UV-18 vibe and really think each machine will have it's own solution for change in grit size. An experiment with changing variables is a great way to describe the polishing process because it can be both interesting and rewarding when so many unknowns are manipulated for a good end product.
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Post by Rockindad on Mar 29, 2022 17:20:21 GMT -5
Fascinating! It is interesting how much of the science of polishing either has remained unknown or is squirelled away in Engeneering Textbooks away from the untrained eye. It seems like this forum would be the place to pool our experience and knowledge and arrive at a popular understanding that would inform future enthusiasts. For example I wonder as the grit breaks down in half and in half again... i wonder at what point do you start to arrive at a sort of Zeno's paradox.... when does smaller not equal sharper anymore. What exactly is going on the last 3-4 days in a rotary if things have broken down to the literal nano level? At that scale is the amount of force applied on a single molecule of Aluminum Oxide going to let it enamel into the molecules of the polished rock? Or is it even driving it past the level of kinetic or even chemical energy and causong quantum effects to bond it somehow? When you consider the fact diving into a swimming pool causes the water to boil and even cause luminescence. Tumbling with abrasives is easily the most complicated form of abrading fivedirections . A fixed abrasive wheel is just that, it's abrasive stays the same from start to finish. Granted it is fairly simple to add abrasives, a solution and tumbles but to realize that the abrasive changes sizes to benefit a final finish is complex and subject to many variables. Selecting the proper abrasives slurry and media for different target tumbles is another whole volume. Our abrasives have already been specified by past specialists. It is a tricky process to quantify. fivedirectionsWe did the microscope/slide routine and while interesting we were not really measuring particle size with any degree of accuracy. This obviously becomes harder as you move to progressively smaller grits. I used to do a lot of woodworking and the finishing process that is involved with that carried over into this hobby. I have seen pieces that were wonderfully crafted only to have a bad prep/finish job ruin them. Sandpaper is the same as the fixed abrasive wheels we have in this hobby. Knowing what grits to use to bridge the gaps in an effort to make the scratches finer and finer apply equally to wood and stone. Part of the fun (maybe in a maddening way) of tumbling is not knowing exactly where your grit is at any given moment. Experience is the best teacher as you will get a feel for what your individual setup is capable of doing and in what timeline.
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