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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 21, 2019 8:05:26 GMT -5
I am getting ready to order an overdue set of wheels for the Genie. I keep my 80 grit wheel on a separate machine so that leaves an open spot on the genie. I would like to hear from folks that use nova or equivalent wheels beyond the 3000 wheel. I really want to know if 14,000 is the logical step or is skipping right to 50,000 feasible. I already have a 50,000 nova resin bond disc that I can spin onto the end of the shaft. I also have canvas and leather spin on discs for aluminum oxide and diamond pastes.
Thanks
Chuck
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Post by stardiamond on Oct 21, 2019 9:14:48 GMT -5
8 inch 600 and 1200 on my star diamond machine and then 8,000 and 14,000 on my Genie with 50,000 and 100,000 diamond paste on pads.
I'm not sure what the next step was after 1200 when bought my Genie but believe it was 8,000. I had two slots open on the arbor and filled one with the 14,000 because I got one cheap on ebay. In the last year, I replaced a not used 600 or 1200 with a 325. I really like the 325 because it makes me spend more time before moving on to the 600 and 1200 grits. Going from 220/280 soft with not everything right asks to much of the 600. I use the tray from the left side when using the 325 and use fresh water for the 8,000.
My left side on my Genie is frozen and I'm in no hurry to free it. I bought another right side arbor and have a new 80 grit and 185 grit on it. When the left side wheels are no longer usable I'll mount a 220/280 soft on extra arbor. I have 3 new eight inch wheels to mount on my stardiamond but have not been motivated to disassemble it and replace the wheels. Lots of bolts and spacers.
The right side kit only costs a little over $100.
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Oct 21, 2019 9:28:45 GMT -5
Drummond Island Rocks I don't use a Genie, but my last 2 wheels are 1,200 & 3,000. Some agates are done at 3,000, some I polish with Cerium Oxide on the edge of a hard felt wheel. Because those higher grits exist, I felt that I might get a better polish by going to 8,000, but I'm happy with the polish I get. I get lots of people (including lapidaries) wondering how I get such a good polish. Lynn
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 21, 2019 9:41:43 GMT -5
Chuck, we have an extra right side shaft that we have 8K, 14K and 50K Novas on. The 8K is rarely used (mostly for boulder opal), so I would recommend the 14K. If you want to hit it with 50K after that, a spin on with paste works great. I think that's what rockjunquie does on her machine. |
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 21, 2019 9:50:30 GMT -5
Chuck, we have an extra right side shaft that we have 8K, 14K and 50K Novas on. The 8K is rarely used (mostly for boulder opal), so I would recommend the 14K. If you want to hit it with 50K after that, a spin on with paste works great. I think that's what rockjunquie does on her machine. Thanks. I have a spin on nova resin bond disc that is 50,000 and I have a spin on canvas with 50,000 diamond. I am thinking 14,000 is the right choice. Chuck |
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 21, 2019 9:52:44 GMT -5
Drummond Island Rocks I don't use a Genie, but my last 2 wheels are 1,200 & 3,000. Some agates are done at 3,000, some I polish with Cerium Oxide on the edge of a hard felt wheel. Because those higher grits exist, I felt that I might get a better polish by going to 8,000, but I'm happy with the polish I get. I get lots of people (including lapidaries) wondering how I get such a good polish. Lynn I have seen some really beautiful agates and jaspers just taken to 3000. I have the extra arbor space though so I just want to get an optional wheel for when needed. Chuck |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 21, 2019 10:33:32 GMT -5
I actually do use the 8000 and find that for a lot of stones it makes a difference before moving on to 14k. TNTMOM, gave me that tip and we all know her polishes are the best.
I had the 100k nova disc and intensely disliked it. I use a spray on leather now. For the 50k, I use paste on felt, though I may change that to canvas or leather soon.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 21, 2019 11:34:22 GMT -5
I actually do use the 8000 and find that for a lot of stones it makes a difference before moving on to 14k. TNTMOM, gave me that tip and we all know her polishes are the best. I had the 100k nova disc and intensely disliked it. I use a spray on leather now. For the 50k, I use paste on felt, though I may change that to canvas or leather soon.
Ugh, Was hoping the 8000 could be skipped. I could go 8000 nova as my last 6" wheel and then try to find a spin on nova resin bond in 14,000. Those nova discs are getting hard to find. Chuck |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 21, 2019 11:48:56 GMT -5
Kingsley North is out of the 14K, but the Rock Peddler has them:
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Oct 21, 2019 11:50:48 GMT -5
Like rockunquie said, I also like the 8K then the 14K. For your final you might also want a 50K on felt - with plenty of extender fluid for soft or flaky stones. You can also run it drier and faster if you need more heat for whatever you're working.
Having your 80 grit on a separate machine is a good setup. If mine was on a separate machine I could add a soft 220 option. We both already have the extra adapters with the 8K, 14K, and 50K Novas so we can use whatever works best for any given rock.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 21, 2019 11:51:00 GMT -5
Kingsley North is out of the 14K, but the Rock Peddler has them: Thanks. I thought the price looked great on that link then realized it was the 4" disc. They do also have the 5.5" disc for $77. Chuck |
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,064 
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 21, 2019 17:52:49 GMT -5
Maybe some of you can explain one of my polishing problems. My routine sanding/polishing course is 80/220 hard, 280/600/1200/3000/8000 soft. On the majority of quartz stones I find that 14K ruins the polish and I have to go back to earlier wheels to restore it. From 8K I can usually improve my polish with various oxides or diamond compounds on felt. But 14K seems to be a problem rather than a solution for me.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Oct 21, 2019 18:27:23 GMT -5
Maybe some of you can explain one of my polishing problems. My routine sanding/polishing course is 80/220 hard, 280/600/1200/3000/8000 soft. On the majority of quartz stones I find that 14K ruins the polish and I have to go back to earlier wheels to restore it. From 8K I can usually improve my polish with various oxides or diamond compounds on felt. But 14K seems to be a problem rather than a solution for me.
Sounds strange. I can't say that I've seen that, but the next time I'm cutting two cabs from the same slab I'll definitely check it out. Are you seeing the difference with your eyes alone or with magnification?
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 21, 2019 18:40:00 GMT -5
Kingsley North is out of the 14K, but the Rock Peddler has them: Thanks. I thought the price looked great on that link then realized it was the 4" disc. They do also have the 5.5" disc for $77. Chuck Woops! Wrong link -- sorry! |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 21, 2019 18:42:26 GMT -5
Maybe some of you can explain one of my polishing problems. My routine sanding/polishing course is 80/220 hard, 280/600/1200/3000/8000 soft. On the majority of quartz stones I find that 14K ruins the polish and I have to go back to earlier wheels to restore it. From 8K I can usually improve my polish with various oxides or diamond compounds on felt. But 14K seems to be a problem rather than a solution for me. I have noticed that on occasion. I will sometimes hit the 8,000 before the 14,000 and that happens. I have never had it happen going from 3,000 to 14,000 that I can remember. Not sure why that is. |
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Post by stardiamond on Oct 21, 2019 18:45:35 GMT -5
I'm not a student of lapidary; I make cabs. I've had the same thing happen to me. Certain material looks better with a lower grit polish. I've also found that I might need to spend more time on the steps.
I had a cab that had a really nice polish and I needed to recut it. I repeated all the steps from 600 and the polish sucked.
I went back to 600 through 100,000 and the original polish was back
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,064
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 21, 2019 18:55:10 GMT -5
Maybe some of you can explain one of my polishing problems. My routine sanding/polishing course is 80/220 hard, 280/600/1200/3000/8000 soft. On the majority of quartz stones I find that 14K ruins the polish and I have to go back to earlier wheels to restore it. From 8K I can usually improve my polish with various oxides or diamond compounds on felt. But 14K seems to be a problem rather than a solution for me. Sounds strange. I can't say that I've seen that, but the next time I'm cutting two cabs from the same slab I'll definitely check it out. Are you seeing the difference with your eyes alone or with magnification?
Eyes alone. The polish seems to revert to about the 1200 level or worse. Weird. |
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,064
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 21, 2019 18:56:53 GMT -5
Maybe some of you can explain one of my polishing problems. My routine sanding/polishing course is 80/220 hard, 280/600/1200/3000/8000 soft. On the majority of quartz stones I find that 14K ruins the polish and I have to go back to earlier wheels to restore it. From 8K I can usually improve my polish with various oxides or diamond compounds on felt. But 14K seems to be a problem rather than a solution for me. I have noticed that on occasion. I will sometimes hit the 8,000 before the 14,000 and that happens. I have never had it happen going from 3,000 to 14,000 that I can remember. Not sure why that is. I'll try skipping the 8K and go directly to 14K. Thanks for the tip. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Oct 21, 2019 21:13:01 GMT -5
Some rocks seem to like 8K and not 14K - some the other way 'round. My best guess is that it relates to the size of the internal crystal lattices of some stones, or the size of the sedimentary particles that make up other types. Seems logical that there could be issues if the grit size on the wheel is close enough to the size of some internal structure in the stone. Maybe a bit like undercutting on a really microscopic scale.
We probably need someone on here like the folks who detailed the subsurface damage done by coarse-grit wheels to give us a definitive answer.
I always just fall back on what I was told before I worked up the nerve to start cutting. "When you're done, if it's smooth and shiny then you did it right."
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,064
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 21, 2019 23:36:19 GMT -5
Some rocks seem to like 8K and not 14K - some the other way 'round. My best guess is that it relates to the size of the internal crystal lattices of some stones, or the size of the sedimentary particles that make up other types. Seems logical that there could be issues if the grit size on the wheel is close enough to the size of some internal structure in the stone. Maybe a bit like undercutting on a really microscopic scale.
We probably need someone on here like the folks who detailed the subsurface damage done by coarse-grit wheels to give us a definitive answer.
I always just fall back on what I was told before I worked up the nerve to start cutting. "When you're done, if it's smooth and shiny then you did it right."
I agree Vince. It's interesting that 8K seems to be a troublemaker when faceting corundum for instance. It develops orange peel so you generally have to skip it and go to a finer grit to get a good polish. In most cases I find 8K yields a pretty darned good polish for cabs if previous steps are completed carefully. I find some stones differ, as you say. Subsurface damage is interesting and could be the cause. You're probably referring to the Sandia Corp. tests on polishing that were done a couple of decades ago. I used to have a link and when I can find a moment I'll try to find and post it. We just had our house fumigated for termites and it'll take a couple of weeks to get everything back to "normal". What a hassle! |
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