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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 26, 2020 13:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by knave on Jan 26, 2020 13:47:07 GMT -5
Amazing stuff Chuck. I think I’ve heard you comment you are using more and more ceramics. Someone talked me into small ceramics instead of the large (for Lot-O). What size do you buy, if I may ask?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 26, 2020 13:59:11 GMT -5
Amazing stuff Chuck. I think I’ve heard you comment you are using more and more ceramics. Someone talked me into small ceramics instead of the large (for Lot-O). What size do you buy, if I may ask? Tricky question. After using ceramics for the last 8 years I have everything from fairly new large ones down to itty bitty ones that eventually get so small they fall through the strainer and get tossed. I order ceramics at least twice a year and always get 2 pounds of large and 3 pounds of small. That is my desired ratio but they change size over time. I just make sure what I am tossing in is a good variety of sizes. For normal batches I would say ceramics are not needed in the 120/220 step but I do add ceramics to that step for several specialty batches that I do and that wears the ceramics down way faster then just using them in 500, 1000 and polish stages. Examples of when to use them in 120/220 would be obsidian, glass, saw scraps with large flat areas and cabochon loads. There are also times like this week where I just did not have enough rocks ready. I could have waited a week for more rocks and could have used pea gravel but I prefer ceramics over pea gravel and I like to have some rocks finished every week. Far left is mixed sizes. Second from left is all small. Third from left is 2mm balls. Far right is the mixed ceramics from the batch of rocks in this thread. Ceramics purchased as large and small turn into just about every possible size over time. 2mm ceramic balls shown on the far right. Chuck
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Jan 26, 2020 14:47:45 GMT -5
Firstly, the tumbled stones look amazing! The preforms able to be done in a week makes me want a vibe.
Secondly, I have a question regarding ceramics, since I've started using them in place of plastic more recently. When you have fresh ceramics that have never seen a tumbler, do you put them straight into 500, or do you have some other "conditioning" step for them before they see the rocks? I've seen some new ceramics break or chip, so I toss a handful of fresh ceramics into 120/220 just to get them rounded over. They only ever see 120/220 once and after that are relegated to prepolish and polish. I'm a bit curious how other people are handling these.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 26, 2020 14:53:16 GMT -5
Firstly, the tumbled stones look amazing! The preforms able to be done in a week makes me want a vibe. Secondly, I have a question regarding ceramics, since I've started using them in place of plastic more recently. When you have fresh ceramics that have never seen a tumbler, do you put them straight into 500, or do you have some other "conditioning" step for them before they see the rocks? I've seen some new ceramics break or chip, so I toss a handful of fresh ceramics into 120/220 just to get them rounded over. They only ever see 120/220 once and after that are relegated to prepolish and polish. I'm a bit curious how other people are handling these. Thanks- I always break in new ceramics. I just run them in the vibe for 2 days in 120/220 to knock the edges down. After that I never worry about them again. Chuck
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 26, 2020 15:54:08 GMT -5
Firstly, the tumbled stones look amazing! The preforms able to be done in a week makes me want a vibe. Secondly, I have a question regarding ceramics, since I've started using them in place of plastic more recently. When you have fresh ceramics that have never seen a tumbler, do you put them straight into 500, or do you have some other "conditioning" step for them before they see the rocks? I've seen some new ceramics break or chip, so I toss a handful of fresh ceramics into 120/220 just to get them rounded over. They only ever see 120/220 once and after that are relegated to prepolish and polish. I'm a bit curious how other people are handling these. I use ceramics exclusively in my Bowl Vibes.........each type regulated to specific cycles, never mixed.: For 120/220 thru 500 stages, an angled 1/4" x 5/8" that has a mild abrasive embedded into it. For stages after 500 cycles, an angled 5/32" x 5/16" type without embedded abrasives. Never have "pre-conditioned" any of them.........I keep them stored separately after use (as to keep track of stages), 120/220's, 500's, 800's and 1200's.....pre-polish and polished are mixed occasionally. It may seem to be a little "over-kill", but since I use a clay product thickener for the 120/220, 500 cycles along with silicon carbide compounds, and two different types of AO's for 800's/1200's/pre-polish...... and Cerium Oxides for polishing, it helps prevent any possible contamination that could occur, even though ceramics are very hard and less likely to absorb any compounds, it's just my way to eliminate any "WTF's"....... Hope this helps.....I don't rotary tumble much anymore, and seldom ever used ceramics with that application, since discovering diamond faceting disc's for shaping and rough grinds.......and that vibe's love ceramics...!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 26, 2020 17:48:28 GMT -5
I know you don't usually use ceramics in the 220 stage, but I always have. The reason I do is so that the Lot-O is filled properly. Do you just run the 220 stage not filled up to the top, or do you fill it up and then remove some rocks to make room for ceramics? I need to stop wearing out my ceramics so quickly.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2020 19:59:52 GMT -5
Nice mix. I noticed that rainforest jasper (rhyolite) doesn't look undercut. Mine did. I'm surprised to see you tumble fordite. Something says it wouldn't tumble well.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 26, 2020 23:13:15 GMT -5
Nice mix. I noticed that rainforest jasper (rhyolite) doesn't look undercut. Mine did. I'm surprised to see you tumble fordite. Something says it wouldn't tumble well. The rainforest can be hit or miss. A lot of times the yellow or white areas are soft and undercut. The fordite tumbles decent and the tumbled scraps sell really well at shows when I have them. Chuck
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Post by aDave on Jan 27, 2020 0:03:04 GMT -5
The saw scraps turned out to be a good thing, but I like them all.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 28, 2020 8:51:16 GMT -5
I know you don't usually use ceramics in the 220 stage, but I always have. The reason I do is so that the Lot-O is filled properly. Do you just run the 220 stage not filled up to the top, or do you fill it up and then remove some rocks to make room for ceramics? I need to stop wearing out my ceramics so quickly. I feel like worn out ceramics are just part of the cost of tumbling.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 28, 2020 15:05:45 GMT -5
I know you don't usually use ceramics in the 220 stage, but I always have. The reason I do is so that the Lot-O is filled properly. Do you just run the 220 stage not filled up to the top, or do you fill it up and then remove some rocks to make room for ceramics? I need to stop wearing out my ceramics so quickly. I feel like worn out ceramics are just part of the cost of tumbling. They have been so far for me, but if I can save a buck, I will.
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Jan 29, 2020 18:31:17 GMT -5
(Still getting the hang of the boards, thought I'd posted this last night. Now watch it show up twice!)
Beautiful tumble!
Can I ask - those 2mm ceramics - do you use those in stages other than polish? I have some but haven't used them yet. Just getting started, trying to sort out my preferred filler media and kind of shocked how fast the ceramics wear down! Currently trying some natural aquarium gravel, at least for coarse. I wish I could get my rocks to wear as fast as the ceramics!
Also, the picture with the snowflake obsidian - what are the 4 brown gemstones?
Thanks!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 29, 2020 23:08:30 GMT -5
(Still getting the hang of the boards, thought I'd posted this last night. Now watch it show up twice!) Beautiful tumble! Can I ask - those 2mm ceramics - do you use those in stages other than polish? I have some but haven't used them yet. Just getting started, trying to sort out my preferred filler media and kind of shocked how fast the ceramics wear down! Currently trying some natural aquarium gravel, at least for coarse. I wish I could get my rocks to wear as fast as the ceramics! Also, the picture with the snowflake obsidian - what are the 4 brown gemstones? Thanks! Thank you. The 2mm round ceramics only get used in my polish stage and only on select batches of soft stones. Chuck
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 31, 2020 1:46:06 GMT -5
(Still getting the hang of the boards, thought I'd posted this last night. Now watch it show up twice!) Beautiful tumble! Can I ask - those 2mm ceramics - do you use those in stages other than polish? I have some but haven't used them yet. Just getting started, trying to sort out my preferred filler media and kind of shocked how fast the ceramics wear down! Currently trying some natural aquarium gravel, at least for coarse. I wish I could get my rocks to wear as fast as the ceramics! Also, the picture with the snowflake obsidian - what are the 4 brown gemstones? Thanks! For your stage 1 coarse runs in the rotary, you shouldn’t need any ceramics at all. You want the rocks to grind down and round out, so there’s no need for cushioning the process with ceramics.
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Post by aDave on Jan 31, 2020 2:12:15 GMT -5
For your stage 1 coarse runs in the rotary, you shouldn’t need any ceramics at all. You want the rocks to grind down and round out, so there’s no need for cushioning the process with ceramics. I absolutely agree with this point. ataraktos, IMHO, you should only be grinding rocks in your coarse stage. Get a good mix of sizes and tumble away. I don't want to waste grit on grinding ceramics, so just fill with various sized rough that you want to smooth out. And, as you noted, there is no sense in wasting away ceramics, especially in a stage where they're generally not needed.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,564
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2020 5:45:02 GMT -5
Your polishes are as good as it gets Chuck. I have some obsidians you tumbled and they are amazing.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,711
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 1, 2020 11:06:06 GMT -5
Tumbling "Fordite", glad to hear it can be tumbled... Might try that also.... Nice material you have there buddy!
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Feb 3, 2020 23:05:56 GMT -5
For your stage 1 coarse runs in the rotary, you shouldn’t need any ceramics at all. You want the rocks to grind down and round out, so there’s no need for cushioning the process with ceramics. I absolutely agree with this point. ataraktos, IMHO, you should only be grinding rocks in your coarse stage. Get a good mix of sizes and tumble away. I don't want to waste grit on grinding ceramics, so just fill with various sized rough that you want to smooth out. And, as you noted, there is no sense in wasting away ceramics, especially in a stage where they're generally not needed. You mix of like hardness in coarse? I hadn't wanted to do that, yet ... So yes, with a single type of rough I often don't have much "size variety" without some media ... And then, what do you do as your rough losses volume - just add some new rough and sort out as they are ready to move on or not? I've had some minor chiping problems with fire quartz in coarse, with, well, a lot more filler than you would use! =) Like they were *almost* ready for the next stage and they started to peck at each other a little bit. They're currently in the "time out" bin. I was thinking I needed even more cushion to get at their last flaws without creating more ... But maybe "more cushion" is not the right approach?
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Feb 4, 2020 0:11:10 GMT -5
You mix of like hardness in coarse? I hadn't wanted to do that, yet ... If you keep the hardness the same, yes, you can mix. Things like quartz, amethyst, carnelian, tigers eye, agates, etc can all be thrown placed in the same barrel. As the rough loses volume, either from grinding and/or removing stones for the next step, you can top the barrel up with more rough. I usually continue the coarse grinding stage until I've stockpiled enough to fill the barrel properly for stage 2. Granted that's more straightforward when staying in the limits of reasonable sized stones, and gets trickier with my large stone tumble projects. The trick here is to have way more material on standby, and that's where the addiction starts to uh... take over... the house... I go out and pick up quartz of all sizes to help fill the barrels out. I've tried being a little more picky with that so I'm not tumbling a bunch of filler material I don't care for. That could be specific to the material you're tumbling. Fractures, cleavage planes, etc can be a real pain. I'm not super familiar with this fire quartz, but I've had issues when tumbling more crystalline types of quartz (clear and smokey) where it can chip a lot. It really depends how "picky" you are. I'm fine with a natural, less tumbled look in things like petrified wood and material with druzy pockets. Other materials I strive to eliminate any and all imperfections as much as possible... which translates into spending most of my time in the coarse grinding stage.
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