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Post by joshuamcduffie on Feb 26, 2020 12:24:10 GMT -5
So, I'm reviewing my January 1976 issue of Lapidary Journal, as one does, and there's an article about tumbling in which the author, June Culp Zeitner. mentions the no wash method of tumbling. Basically you just recharge with finer grit as the larger grit is spent, with no cleanout between stages. The only cleanout seems to be when you get to the polish stage, that one goes as normal. Does anyone have any experience or success running their tumblers this way? It would be a TON easier and a huge time saver, if it worked reliably. Thus far, I've been pretty anal about a thorough cleanout between stages. Any thoughts?
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Feb 26, 2020 13:44:46 GMT -5
You would really have to dial in your grit amounts to not overly grind the rock and create too much mud, in a vibe. From that I would assume the article were about rotary tumbling, which would also require a good bit of slurry thinning and partial removal of slurry from time to time
Edit: not to mention having that stray 220 grit that was hiding in a new fracture coming out in your pre-polish run and destroying your finish!
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braat
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
Posts: 350
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Post by braat on Feb 26, 2020 14:38:27 GMT -5
So, I'm reviewing my January 1976 issue of Lapidary Journal, as one does, and there's an article about tumbling in which the author, June Culp Zeitner. mentions the no wash method of tumbling. Basically you just recharge with finer grit as the larger grit is spent, with no cleanout between stages. The only cleanout seems to be when you get to the polish stage, that one goes as normal. Does anyone have any experience or success running their tumblers this way? It would be a TON easier and a huge time saver, if it worked reliably. Thus far, I've been pretty anal about a thorough cleanout between stages. Any thoughts? I would be doubtful about the results done that way. All it would take is a couple pieces of grit that didn't break down for whatever reasons and any hope of that wet shine everybody wants disappears. But if your shine expectations aren't too high then maybe it's a go? I know from my first couple rotary runs where I let the rocks roll for weeks without adding/doing anything (cause I didn't know any better) some of the rocks did get a sheen on them (cause the grit was breaking down finer and finer) but nothing near what I would now call shiny. At any rate try it and see what happens...
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 26, 2020 15:05:18 GMT -5
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Post by miket on Feb 26, 2020 15:19:40 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious, but I think the biggest issue I would have with it would be the fact that none of my rocks are ready to move on to the next stage at the same time. I'm literally pulling out one or two rocks every couple of weeks and holding them until I have enough to move on. Other than that, I don't know why it wouldn't work- especially after the coarse stage.
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Post by knave on Feb 26, 2020 15:40:19 GMT -5
If they are going back into coarse you wouldn’t have to scrub each rock and the barrel just refill and go. It’s good to check them at least every week in case a rock is softly disappearing. Lol.
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Post by miket on Feb 26, 2020 16:08:23 GMT -5
If they are going back into coarse you wouldn’t have to scrub each rock and the barrel just refill and go. It’s good to check them at least every week in case a rock is softly disappearing. Lol. You just gave away my tumbling method, Evan! Actually, that is what I do. Every week I look at the rocks, move on the ones that are ready and add more in my two rotary tumblers. They're constantly running coarse grit.
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Post by greig on Feb 26, 2020 17:02:21 GMT -5
I tried it a few times. I would suggest cleaning it out before polish. In fact, I would clean it out prior to pre-polish. As for Stage 1 & 2, you can actually just run stage 1 with a bit of extra grit, which will break down and become medium grit for stage 2 on its own. Two problems. The slurry can get too thick as the rocks grind down. If you open up the tumbler without cleaning it, it is difficult to get the barrel clean so the lid closes correctly. Bottom line. There is a reason they suggest you clean out your barrel with every new grit. I don't take shortcuts on good rocks. Tumbling takes a long time, so why take the risk?
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Feb 26, 2020 17:14:36 GMT -5
I stopped scrubbing individual rocks one at a time once I realized that if there aren't pits or cracks for grit to get trapped in a rinse and rub with running water between my fingers was sufficient. If the rock is ready for next stage And it has cracks and holes Then it gets scrubbed Else rinsed Friday night we'll see if I'm full of it or not
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 318
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Post by whyofquartz on Feb 26, 2020 17:58:28 GMT -5
I have some rocks right in right now(they should have come out Sunday) that have been in the same slurry for 80 and 220 grit. actually they are in a 220 slurry that was used to thicken a 80 slurry the was carried over in to a 220 slurry and will probably be used for the next coarse grind(prolly gunta be 60/90 since it is more bang for the buck) too.
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Post by taylor on Feb 26, 2020 18:47:35 GMT -5
Wasn't there a thread about someone starting with 80 and just letting them roll until they were done?
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scottyh
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2007
Posts: 181
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Post by scottyh on Mar 4, 2020 21:37:20 GMT -5
If you are running large barrels then you can just run the last rough stage for 4 weeks then go straight to polish. When I say large barrels i mean 40 pounders. I have done this successfully in the past. The only proviso is that the rock has to be perfect and ready to go. I did many rounds of 60 grit until I had a 40 pound drum load. I then cleaned them and loaded them up with a normal charge of 60 grit and rolled them for about a month then did a clean followed by a borax burnish followed by a polish run and finished them with a final burnish. The results were pretty good.
Cheers Scott
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Mar 4, 2020 21:47:15 GMT -5
If you are running large barrels then you can just run the last rough stage for 4 weeks then go straight to polish. When I say large barrels i mean 40 pounders. [...] The results were pretty good. I believe it. Sometimes I wonder if I could skip medium grit altogether... Haven't been bold enough to try though
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Post by rmf on Mar 4, 2020 22:13:35 GMT -5
I knew a guy that did commercial tumbling in steel drums. His small drum was 300# of rock. He only tumbled with 46/70 split. For me that does not work well due to plastic and rubber drums usually have some coarse grit left which ruins the polish in the end. His worked well because of the steel drums and the fact he tumbled them for 30 days in coarse grit.
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Post by parfive on Mar 5, 2020 2:22:55 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder if I could skip medium grit altogether... Haven't been bold enough to try though Next batch, check your weight loss percentage for the 500 run. You’ll probably find that is more than sufficient to clean up your 60/90 product* and a week in 120/220 is wasted. * Under a loupe, there are no scratches, just a matte finish.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2020 6:27:03 GMT -5
Consider the possible teaspoon/tablespoon batch of coarser grit wedged in a corner or packed in some of the rocks that may release later in say step 3 and scratch your stuff up.
Nothing wrong with pouring slurry off the top in step 1 and adding water and SiC over and over for weeks.
Steps 2-3-4 (and 5 if done) only require 1 clean out each and one dose of abrasive. Step one usually requires 6 to 15 SiC additions and numerous slurry removals or clean outs.
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Post by HankRocks on Mar 5, 2020 7:49:08 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder if I could skip medium grit altogether... Haven't been bold enough to try though Next batch, check your weight loss percentage for the 500 run. You’ll probably find that is more than sufficient to clean up your 60/90 product* and a week in 120/220 is wasted. * Under a loupe, there are no scratches, just a matte finish. I have been going directly from 46/70 SiC to 600 SiC for over a year now. It has not affected the polish on the finished product. I only use 220 SiC in the Vib Lap. Another note, the saved slurry I add to the 600 SiC run most likely has a few SiC grit particles larger than 600. In my mind that's no big deal as they will break down quickly and be at 600 in 2 or 3 days. That goes against conventional tumbling wisdom. The only only concern I have for contamination is between the 600 SiC run and the AO pre-polish run, either 80 or 500 depending on the rocks in the batch. I do a soap run after the 600 SiC and the slurry I use for the AO prepolish is saved AO slurry. It's interesting to see how gray the soap water is after the SiC to AO wash run. That and my AO saved slurry is still very light colored.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2020 10:22:03 GMT -5
I don't know why the pace was set to run SiC 220 between the coarse SiC run and the finer 500/600 SiC run HankRocks. I find that SiC 500 step removes a lot of material in the rotary. Even the damage done by SiC 10 after not letting it break down.
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Post by parfive on Mar 5, 2020 11:27:51 GMT -5
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Post by HankRocks on Mar 5, 2020 11:33:17 GMT -5
I don't know why the pace was set to run SiC 220 between the coarse SiC run and the finer 500/600 SiC run HankRocks . I find that SiC 500 step removes a lot of material in the rotary. Even the damage done by SiC 10 after not letting it break down. I have another theory. By the time the rocks get to the 600 SiC run they should be smoother with ground down surfaces. The 600 grit should provide a 1000 times more particles to do the cutting than the coarse grit, they may be smaller, but there are a lot more of them all working with more and better rock contact surfaces. Therefore still a lot of material removed. For a load of rougher rocks the 600 is not going to work as well, the 30 SiC or the 46/70 will be more effective.
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