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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 4, 2020 19:24:23 GMT -5
Question: I ran the UV-18 two days with 120/220 SiC and then rinsed. I've restarted the vibe with the same type of 120/220, same rocks, and same ceramic media. I've noticed this time, the smaller ceramic pieces (most, not all) are "coating" the sides of the barrel rather than tumbling with the rocks. What could have caused them to do this? It doesn't seem to be too wet or too dry and the rocks appear to be tumbling very well. I tried to take a picture...  |
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lparsons
Cave Dweller 
Member since April 2020
Posts: 276 
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Post by lparsons on Oct 4, 2020 19:57:09 GMT -5
I’ve had that to happen too, but my ceramics are vertical rather than horizontal like yours. I’m curious about what causes it too. Maybe the slurry acts like glue and just holds them in place?
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Post by knave on Oct 4, 2020 20:10:49 GMT -5
RocksInNJ, Bill, has the same issue in his UV10. His fix is to use less small ceramics I do believe.
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 4, 2020 20:14:41 GMT -5
I’ve had that to happen too, but my ceramics are vertical rather than horizontal like yours. I’m curious about what causes it too. Maybe the slurry acts like glue and just holds them in place? I just went to look at it a couple minutes ago. I was out in the garage and asked my wife if the "noise level" was less today than it was for the last two days. She and I both thought it was quieter. So, I went to check it and I saw the ceramics weren't riding on the sides any more. They had been riding the sides yesterday afternoon, last night, and again this morning (I'm still checking it a lot! LOL). There seems to be more slurry tonight than there was for the last couple days. So, I figure that's why it's a bit quieter. It doesn't appear to be too wet, as it's not "watery-runny" - there just seems to be more slurry... So, I'll be curious if anyone's figured out what causes the media to do that. Interesting your media was vertical and mine horizontal... |
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 4, 2020 20:16:50 GMT -5
RocksInNJ , Bill, has the same issue in his UV10. His fix is to use less small ceramics I do believe. Thanks knave ! I was taking too long to type my last response while you were posting this! LOL |
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Post by amygdule on Oct 4, 2020 20:28:06 GMT -5
I've seen that happen in my Mini-sonic vibe with the bits and pieces of glass that I use for filler.
They just vibrate out of the flow of action and sit there glued to the sides of the bowl.
Kind of like me, the social outcast, standing on the sidelines while chaos rolls by.
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 4, 2020 20:34:50 GMT -5
I've seen that happen in my Mini-sonic vibe with the bits and pieces of glass that I use for filler. They just vibrate out of the flow of action and sit there glued to the sides of the bowl. Kind of like me, the social outcast, standing on the sidelines while chaos rolls by. Although heartbreaking to me, that was an amazing metaphor! I don't think you're too much of a social outcast on here!  So apparently, smaller media acting this way seems to be a pretty common thing to happen... |
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Post by amygdule on Oct 4, 2020 21:05:48 GMT -5
Thank you Jason  |
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Post by knave on Oct 4, 2020 21:54:43 GMT -5
amygdule I’ve really enjoyed your postings here
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Oct 4, 2020 22:53:37 GMT -5
Jason......the small ceramics tend to stick or float in grinding stages until they get beat-up a bit and the residual stone particles start to increase the slurry thickness......this thickening also starts to cut down the vibe chatter, diminishing the higher pitch rock crashing noise as well.........all of this is very common in a vibe........BTW, from the looks of your slurry photo and recent up-date, it appears you're doing just fine.........!
It's just a tip I got from some RTH folks way back when.......you might consider using a little larger angled ceramic during the grinding stages. Save the little guys for pre-polish/polish stages, something on the order of 1/4" x 5/8"........they work well in my vibes and they wear much better......also, now that you've roughed-up the little ceramics, be advised.....not to use those in the pre-polish/polish stages. Let them continue to get chewed-up........break-in the new stuff during polish. At first it will take a little time to condition them, but after a few polishing cycles they'll be perfect for that application.
I've never carried over any ceramics I've used during rotary tumbling........always started with new or otherwise previous vibe.......but, that's just me. Other's may differ with that routine.
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 5, 2020 6:35:13 GMT -5
Jason......the small ceramics tend to stick or float in grinding stages until they get beat-up a bit and the residual stone particles start to increase the slurry thickness......this thickening also starts to cut down the vibe chatter, diminishing the higher pitch rock crashing noise as well.........all of this is very common in a vibe........BTW, from the looks of your slurry photo and recent up-date, it appears you're doing just fine.........!
It's just a tip I got from some RTH folks way back when.......you might consider using a little larger angled ceramic during the grinding stages. Save the little guys for pre-polish/polish stages, something on the order of 1/4" x 5/8"........they work well in my vibes and they wear much better......also, now that you've roughed-up the little ceramics, be advised.....not to use those in the pre-polish/polish stages. Let them continue to get chewed-up........break-in the new stuff during polish. At first it will take a little time to condition them, but after a few polishing cycles they'll be perfect for that application.
I've never carried over any ceramics I've used during rotary tumbling........always started with new or otherwise previous vibe.......but, that's just me. Other's may differ with that routine.
Thanks for all that info!  I might be a bit out of luck on the ceramics. I had no idea how much to get, and all that I picked up is in the vibe at the moment. I would need to get some more in order to use fresh stuff for the polish stage...which I'm scheduled to move to this afternoon. It makes sense to me to use different media for the different stages... If I have time this morning/afternoon, I might run up to Keystone and grab some more from the Rock Shed. I just have to figure out how to explain another trip up there to the Mrs.! |
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Post by knave on Oct 5, 2020 7:14:10 GMT -5
The cerAmics should do fine moving up along with the rocks. In my opinion. No need to make special trip to TRS.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Oct 5, 2020 7:18:03 GMT -5
I break in all my ceramic in 150/220 grit SiC in the vibe, and run it to polish and then only use it for AO500 and AO polish afterward.
I really really dislike the "small" ceramics... so much so that I threw them in the trash before they were even worn out.
Mainly because I never got as good of a polish with them as I thought I should, and I found I was right... YMMV
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kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
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Post by kyoti on Oct 5, 2020 8:03:58 GMT -5
My ceramics tend to bowl climb as well. I also learned the hard way never to reuse ceramics that have been in rotary coarse grind. Pieces of the grit became embedded in the ceramic media. I didn't realize it until I had ruined a couple of loads of polished rock. Bummer! Lol I'm the queen of rocks ruined in the polish stage.
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 5, 2020 9:08:55 GMT -5
The cerAmics should do fine moving up along with the rocks. In my opinion. No need to make special trip to TRS. I think I'm going to go this route. It's interesting this isn't a "one size fits all" hobby. Different methods work for different people! I break in all my ceramic in 150/220 grit SiC in the vibe, and run it to polish and then only use it for AO500 and AO polish afterward. I really really dislike the "small" ceramics... so much so that I threw them in the trash before they were even worn out. Mainly because I never got as good of a polish with them as I thought I should, and I found I was right... YMMV Not to seem like an idiot here, but reading this, are you saying you're using "new" large sized ceramics each time you start a new load? Or are you saying with that initial load, you run that one to polish and dedicate that media to the 500/polish stages...then have a committed batch of ceramics ONLY for the 120/220 stage? My ceramics tend to bowl climb as well. I also learned the hard way never to reuse ceramics that have been in rotary coarse grind. Pieces of the grit became embedded in the ceramic media. I didn't realize it until I had ruined a couple of loads of polished rock. Bummer! Lol I'm the queen of rocks ruined in the polish stage. That's good to know too! So if I'm following along, and thinking I know what EricD was saying, it looks like I would want: 1. Ceramic Media dedicated to the rough tumble in the rotary (definitely large media, not small) 2. Ceramic Media that has been through the 120/220 - 500 - Polish stages dedicated to ONLY the 500/polish afterward 3. Ceramic Media dedicated to the 120/220 vibe stage Sorry if these are annoying "noob" questions. I really appreciate ALL the help! I'm really finding this whole process rather fascinating...and WHAT a learning curve!!! |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Oct 5, 2020 9:31:37 GMT -5
I don't use ceramic in the rotary. I use small hard gravel or saw scraps because they are free.
I also use the rounded gravel from the rotary in the 120/220 vibe stage, because well, I don't like buying ceramic all the time.
I've only purchased ceramic twice in about a year, (first ever purchase, then the second time to replace the small ones with large), and since I quit running them in 120/220 they are no longer wearing visibly, and I get a really really nice shine.
I do however run my new ceramic in 120/220 in the vibe to break them in, then proceed all the way through polish and keep them for 500 and polish stages only.
I apologize for the vague post to begin with.
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Post by knave on Oct 5, 2020 9:33:41 GMT -5
The 120 break-in is to round the sharp corners of the large ceramic. Little to no ceramic is “needed” in the 120 stage although you still need some smalls. After 120, you can cherry pick the winners, and add maybe 40 - 50% ceramics for the last stages.
With softer material, it is true that already polished ceramic will bring good results faster, however using less polish can speed things up just as much on properly prepped material.
Pre and polish stages won’t have much slurry generated so most folks add sugar (or borax) to help thicken. A pinch of metamucil can assist cleanup as well. Kind of like a floor sweeping media.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Oct 5, 2020 9:46:33 GMT -5
Jason........
With Vibe tumbling, I've found the consensus of experienced user's I follow here at RTH, move the same ceramics along from 120/220 to 500 cycles.....sizes varying depending on the volume and size of the subject stone being processed. Some even consider changing whether they have been grinding with SIC or AO through those stages.
Probably, more than 50% of those sames experienced Vibe folks use only previous pre-polished or polished ceramics for that purpose, to include myself. Some don't add ceramics to those stages. Ceramics are tough and resilient material, but contamination can occur during the grinding stages. I'd rather not take that chance once I've started polishing, particularly if I used SIC during the grinding stages. Besides, most of my ceramics have lost volume through the grinding stages, so I prefer starting polishing stages with a little more beef on my media.
You should be fine transferring your "little" media through the grinding stages for now............eventually, you'll find a preference that works for you. If you are as "anal" as most of us about detail, most likely you'll have (develop) a variety of media sizes and stage worn material on hand for various applications and stone types. It's all part of the fun and Vibe articulation process.........lol
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JBe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 103
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Post by JBe on Oct 5, 2020 10:19:47 GMT -5
I use the small ceramics from TRS in my Lot-O stages 120/220 through polish. New ceramics always go through a 120/220 stage first to take the hard edges off. I typically run 30-50% ceramics depending on the composition of the rock load. I get a good six months of 24/7 tumbling before the ceramics get small enough to start annoying me during cleanouts. I've never used the larger ceramics but I may try it the next lot I buy.
In the 120/220 stage I'll see the ceramics cling to the sides and stack up like you're seeing only when the slurry is too thick/dry. If I catch it before the whole barrel starts to clump together I can usually get everything moving again by adding water. Using a spray bottle and adding a few sprays at a time, letting the water incorporate, and then checking the action helps to keep me from adding too much. I don't typically see the ceramics stick to the walls in other stages unless I ignore it for a few days and it really gets dry.
The 120/220 stage is really the most finicky stage for me to keep the slurry/action where it should be. I'm curious to see if trying the larger ceramics affects this at all.
Before I upgraded from a three pound rotary to the twelve I did try using ceramics in it. I don't feel I gained anything and the courser grit definitely wore the ceramics out faster. If I need smalls in the rough stage in the rotary I'll use pea gravel. It's cheap and plentiful.
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Post by knave on Oct 5, 2020 10:31:03 GMT -5
120 vibe requires diligent attention. Probably 2x/day because so much material removed, affects the slurry consistency.
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