Prov
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2020
Posts: 116
|
Post by Prov on Oct 25, 2020 18:46:28 GMT -5
Yeah, one thing you'll pick up quick in this hobby is that there's no single "right" way to do things.
Everyone has their own approach. As long as your method is getting the results you want, you're doing it right!
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Oct 25, 2020 23:58:01 GMT -5
I have never added grit to a batch once started. I do however retain some old slurry in the barrel after the pour out, maybe .5" in a 12 lb barrel.
|
|
kaartje
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2020
Posts: 24
|
Post by kaartje on Oct 26, 2020 16:57:40 GMT -5
Yeah, one thing you'll pick up quick in this hobby is that there's no single "right" way to do things. Everyone has their own approach. As long as your method is getting the results you want, you're doing it right! Thats true! Only my results are not zo great ,so i am happy with all the options that you guys give to me!
|
|
kaartje
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2020
Posts: 24
|
Post by kaartje on Oct 26, 2020 16:59:53 GMT -5
I have never added grit to a batch once started. I do however retain some old slurry in the barrel after the pour out, maybe .5" in a 12 lb barrel. I like the idea that you are re use the grit/ slurry!
|
|
|
Post by HankRocks on Oct 26, 2020 18:50:26 GMT -5
I have never added grit to a batch once started. I do however retain some old slurry in the barrel after the pour out, maybe .5" in a 12 lb barrel. I like the idea that you are re use the grit/ slurry! I dry cake my slurry in the pour-off/wash off buckets. Once the slurry is dry it get broken up and used in my coarse runs at about 2 to 3 cups per 15 pound barrel. Also do a re-charge every 3 days, in a 9 or 12 day coarse run. The re-charge gives me a chance to check the rock level, if a bit low I might add a few more. I have also started using a "hammer" rock, usually about 1/2 to 1 pound. I found while tumbling one of my large rocks that the other rocks seemed to grind a bit quicker. Did not do a detailed study, just my impression. Please note that the hammer is used in my 15 pound barrels, 3 and 6 pound barrels will most likely behave differently with a rock that big. "There are many paths to the Truth"
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Oct 26, 2020 22:52:40 GMT -5
Well, in thinking about it more, I do it less than 50% of the time in 12lb barrels. In 20lb, maybe 50%. In the 40lb, probably 90% and 1"to 1.5". It's to help produce good slurry thickness, not to save on grit. I also do not retain any prior slurry when changing to a finer grit.
|
|
thebeef
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2020
Posts: 62
|
Post by thebeef on Oct 27, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5
My method is probably a little different than most people . . . When I open the barrel after a week in Stage 1 Course, I want to see super thick pudding slurry with the rocks hugging each other and need to scrape out the barrel for Cleanout. That way I know that the grit has done as much as it can do in a week. To get this super thick slurry at cleanout, I start with a 3/4 full barrel of rocks with plenty of grit and a Small amount of water filled to halfway up the rocks, or even less.
Love to see that Pudding . . . But you gotta eat your meat.
|
|
|
Post by Mel on Oct 28, 2020 10:18:22 GMT -5
I thought a few more people would have chimed in on this one. I'm curious too as to how many people do a clean out after the first week and restart with fresh clean material, or just add more grit to the existing slurry and continue. I think it comes down to experience and knowing your material. Harder stones (agates) which are known to take weeks, I would think just open it up, add fresh grit and run another week. Other softer material I would expect would need to be evaluated to see if another week of coarse is necessary. I like the idea of just adding fresh grit to the existing slurry... I agree. After reading many posts from jamesp on the subject of tumbling, I just recharge with fresh grit, no clean out until the next stage (then full cleaning and repeat). I just scoop out some rocks, clean 'em and evaluate, then add more grit and set it on its way. I found it works even better (maybe this is just me thinking it does, but I'll take it!) without a full clean out. I think the slurry produces better results because the grit gets a chance to totally break down through repeated runs. Plus it saves time and a messy clean up job weekly.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Oct 28, 2020 14:58:22 GMT -5
Let's say I've run a week in 12lb barrel in course grit and ready to process. I hold my hand to prevent rocks from coming out and pour out the slurry into the waste bucket. Then I pour in water quickly to keep rocks wet. Then I empty the barrel into a metal strainer over a big bucket. Now I pour water over the rocks to rinse them off. But...I'm not doing this to clean them per se in prep for next batch, I'm ONLY washing them enough to be in order to inspect them as to which category each rock now goes: 1) throw away, 2) need to cleave or saw apart, 3) ready for next finer grit, or 4) needs to go back in this coarse stage.
I can often see quickly that a rock is in category 4 as so many need weeks if not months in coarse grit over and over. For rocks like that, I don't even bothering rinsing them off well, I immediately put them back in the barrel. In some cases they are partially covered with slimy slurry and I don't care as this just serves to help the slurry form nicely on the next batch. Of course, some rocks being inspected have to dry first to see if they still have cracks such that they also need to go in 4 instead of 3. Such rocks have to be rinsed well to make sure no cracks are overlooked.
What I want to emphasize is I have NEVER taken a toothbrush or any other brush to the rocks, or barrels, and cleaned them thoroughly between grit sizes as part of a cleaning step so often published. The one exception to this is if a rock has a crevice and some other rock or piece of ceramic got jammed down in there. I will take a pick and pry it out. Another exception is if there is unused grit around the top of the barrel that might screw up the next finer grit. I don't bother with this until I am about to start a run in 600 or 1,000 and then I do wash that top edge which also requires not only washing the barrel thoroughly but also splashing water up into it to really get any potential grit particles out. And of course, prior to polish, I scrub everything down super carefully.
As others so often note, this hobby is an art form because there are so many variables. When I first got into it, I thought such comments were silly as it's all numbers--RPMs, water level, grit size and amount, rocks Mohs, barrel size, etc.--but here I am years later and I do think it's an art form now. There is just so much to know and play with. Last night, I was wondering why my results seem to have been increasing for the better a lot in one barrel lately--few broken rocks and really nice processing and slurries better than usual. It took a long time but finally noticed barrel seemed to be rotating slower than it should. I measured and it was 14.5 RPMs instead of target 18 or so. Why? Finally figured out that the drive pulley on motor given to me had worn down as was that cheap cast zinc. The belt was sitting low in the pulley. Since this was only a 1.5" pulley that greatly diminished speed of driven pulley on barrel shaft. So--I just learned by accident that a slower RPM on this 20lb steel barrel with the material in it I've been processing lately really helped. You learn from screwups, successes, and weird things like that. So although I'm going to replace that worn pulley (the belt was actually bottoming out into it--not good) I'm also going to take steps to continue that barrel at that slower RPM.
I can't even imagine the knowledge to be accumulated in doing this for 20 years or more. Only 6 years so far for me.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 29, 2020 6:10:06 GMT -5
I thought a few more people would have chimed in on this one. I'm curious too as to how many people do a clean out after the first week and restart with fresh clean material, or just add more grit to the existing slurry and continue. I think it comes down to experience and knowing your material. Harder stones (agates) which are known to take weeks, I would think just open it up, add fresh grit and run another week. Other softer material I would expect would need to be evaluated to see if another week of coarse is necessary. I like the idea of just adding fresh grit to the existing slurry... I agree. After reading many posts from jamesp on the subject of tumbling, I just recharge with fresh grit, no clean out until the next stage (then full cleaning and repeat). I just scoop out some rocks, clean 'em and evaluate, then add more grit and set it on its way. I found it works even better (maybe this is just me thinking it does, but I'll take it!) without a full clean out. I think the slurry produces better results because the grit gets a chance to totally break down through repeated runs. Plus it saves time and a messy clean up job weekly. Why not Mel from Yuma & Spokane. (If the slurry has gotten too thick some of it needs to be poured off and water added to thin it to a nice consistency.) Saves doing a total clean out so often, maybe every 2 weeks instead of 1 week. Or no clean outs. Unused grit is more likely to get used up this way. Easy to do half doses every few days if speeding the grind. A good procedure for step 1 saving time and energy. If doing a higher speed 72rpm(6 inch barrel) step 1 tumble I prefer to do clean outs every 2 to 3 days and add a measured amount of fresh clay/fresh grit each clean out. At such speeds the slurry needs to be a measured thickness from the very start to avoid bruising. Especially if running glass. I may even use 150% to 200% grit dose. My experiments show doubling the grit doubles the grind speed but the slurry must have just the right consistency requiring the slurry thickener to be dosed accurately along with complete clean outs to avoid overdosing with abrasive.
|
|
gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
|
Post by gatorflash1 on Oct 29, 2020 9:14:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure that everyone tumbles rocks differently. If that is so it may because of the different types of tumblers used, different size tumblers, and different types of rocks being tumbled. We all probably use the same steps when tumbling and tweak them to the type of equipment we use and rocks we tumble.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Oct 29, 2020 13:56:37 GMT -5
One thing that doesn't help is if someone asks a question in this forum and it's not clear if they are rotary or vibe, and if the answers are about rotary or vibe. I try to remember to ID myself in that way if not obvious from my post. Also, some people do hand polishing against a wheel and if they don't mention that in talking about this or that material or polish, one can get on wrong track too.
I see in your post above that there is some info you ID written between your image and the "Member since..." line. I need to find out how to do that and put in that I do rotary only or something like that.
|
|
|
Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 29, 2020 18:23:56 GMT -5
One thing that doesn't help is if someone asks a question in this forum and it's not clear if they are rotary or vibe, and if the answers are about rotary or vibe. I try to remember to ID myself in that way if not obvious from my post. Also, some people do hand polishing against a wheel and if they don't mention that in talking about this or that material or polish, one can get on wrong track too. I see in your post above that there is some info you ID written between your image and the "Member since..." line. I need to find out how to do that and put in that I do rotary only or something like that. To add info under your avatar photo, go to your home page. Click on profile, then edit profile (white button in upper right). Next click on personal. Scroll down a little, and you'll see four white boxes labeled Location, Website Name, Website URL and Most Recent Status. You can put anything you want in Location. Your actual location or something else. I tried to put something other than a website name in the next box, but nothing happened. It allowed me to put something in Website URL, but it did turn it yellow/orange. Recent Status will also allow anything. There's probably length restrictions on all of these, won't know until you try. You cannot change the Member Since date.
You could also add info to your signature line, that goes at the bottom of every post you make. Some folks just do their name, so they don't have to add it to every post.
Make sure you click Save Personal Settings at the bottom so your changes are saved.
One person on this forum had all their various lapidary equipment listed - saws by name and size, tumblers rotary or vibe. Sort of like car forums where members list all their different vehicles, maybe add a photo. (This is usually done in the signature line.) You get the idea.
On my signature line I have a photo strip with my previous (none now ) fur babies.
Now that you know where to go, just get in there and poke around!
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Oct 29, 2020 21:06:17 GMT -5
Now that you know where to go, just get in there and poke around! My life’s work.
|
|
|
Post by Mel on Oct 30, 2020 11:53:23 GMT -5
I agree. After reading many posts from jamesp on the subject of tumbling, I just recharge with fresh grit, no clean out until the next stage (then full cleaning and repeat).\ Why not Mel from Yuma & Spokane . (If the slurry has gotten too thick some of it needs to be poured off and water added to thin it to a nice consistency.) Saves doing a total clean out so often, maybe every 2 weeks instead of 1 week. Or no clean outs. After the kaolin/misers discussion, I figured recharge rather than full cleanup is worth a shot. So far it's working great. I still want to get some clay and play around with that too, just haven't gotten that far. Too many irons in the fire; especially since I just got my vibe yesterday
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 30, 2020 17:42:23 GMT -5
Why not Mel from Yuma & Spokane . (If the slurry has gotten too thick some of it needs to be poured off and water added to thin it to a nice consistency.) Saves doing a total clean out so often, maybe every 2 weeks instead of 1 week. Or no clean outs. After the kaolin/misers discussion, I figured recharge rather than full cleanup is worth a shot. So far it's working great. I still want to get some clay and play around with that too, just haven't gotten that far. Too many irons in the fire; especially since I just got my vibe yesterday Never mess with a lady and her new vibe ! Broke a rib laughing about the diamonds in a saw blade.
|
|
|
Post by Mel on Oct 30, 2020 23:08:22 GMT -5
After the kaolin/misers discussion, I figured recharge rather than full cleanup is worth a shot. So far it's working great. I still want to get some clay and play around with that too, just haven't gotten that far. Too many irons in the fire; especially since I just got my vibe yesterday Never mess with a lady and her new vibe ! Broke a rib laughing about the diamonds in a saw blade. Now you got ME laughing. My husband made the same joke. Sheeesh
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 31, 2020 5:54:04 GMT -5
Never mess with a lady and her new vibe ! Broke a rib laughing about the diamonds in a saw blade. Now you got ME laughing. My husband made the same joke. Sheeesh Husband is lucky man. My wife doesn't have a serious bone in her body. I am Joe Analytical and she gives me hell. However there are plenty of buttons to push to make her seriously angry lol. Rock tumbling is using a machine to shape with stepped sizes of SiC and finish with stepped sizes of aluminum oxide. Or alternate abrasives. Abrasive menus can vary greatly. Machines can vary greatly. Slurries can vary greatly. Not much else to it. Congrats on the vibe acquisition. When I got my vibe I rounded up a batch of already polished agates and ran them several times from 120 to 220 grit to polish. In other words un-polish them and re-polish them several times till I got the hang of it. Poor vibe has been run a lot testing machine adjustments/slurries/durations/different abrasives/amounts of abrasives by un-polishing and re-polishing the same batch. The alternative is to wait a long time for a batch from the rotary to be ready.
|
|
|
Post by arghvark on Nov 1, 2020 9:04:54 GMT -5
As you're seeing, there are about as many ways to do it as there are recipes for meatloaf. 😁
I don't see where you mention the size of your rotary tumbler.
I found that it would take about 2 weeks to completely exhaust grit (typically 80 grit) in 3 lb barrels, whereas in 6lb barrels with 46/70 it takes about 5 days using some "slurry optimization".
At the end of the appropriate time for the given barrel size, I do full clean out. It's just easier for me because I sort after each round to decide which stones are ready to move on.
And as mentioned by others, lots of what I tumble (hard and very rough) takes months before I want to move them on.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Nov 2, 2020 15:02:14 GMT -5
rockpickerforever, thanks for that help. I have started to explore some of those settings. How did you get the line "Just plain lazy" to appear below your photo?
The sayings and photos by signatures I find annoying and distracting. They just take up space that a reader has to wade through and one has to see them over and over and over and over and over and over. Once would be enough. Would be neat if we could turn them off but I have looked at tried and no go. I have 48 years of fur children and share your love of them but I don't want to force people to have to see mine a thousand times. I know I'm probably in the minority on this. If I could only train my 11 lb dachschund to direct some of that limitless energy into helping me tumble rocks!
|
|