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Post by greig on Feb 19, 2021 22:43:02 GMT -5
If you are going to use diamond on any of them. A few dots of diamond paste dotted around the lap and spread around with your finger with some extender oil is all you need. Add more diamond paste when you need it. Eventually the lap will be charged with enough diamond that you don't need to recharge as often or with as much.
I have diamond paste. Do you use that on leather or just a polish pad? I was sold 2 polish pads - for 3000 and 14000 grit diamond paste. Also, dumb question - what is extender oil? I have motor oil, olive oil, gun oil and many others, but none are "extender". |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 22:46:42 GMT -5
From what I've researched, silicone spray can be used the same as extender fluid...
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Post by greig on Feb 19, 2021 22:52:07 GMT -5
You made a better cab on the second one than I did with the same material. I had high hopes for the material, because the silver was high grade, but the vein just wasn't big enough for my liking.
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 22:58:01 GMT -5
You made a better cab on the second one than I did with the same material. I had high hopes for the material, because the silver was high grade, but the vein just wasn't big enough for my liking. I think you sent me the better slab.  The first cab I was concentrating on the silver because it was so prominent. On the second cab, it was all about the matrix for me. I've still got another cab dopped and ready to go with that second slab. I've gotta try something different for the polish on it this time to see if I can avoid that orange peel... |
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Post by greig on Feb 19, 2021 23:06:46 GMT -5
You made a better cab on the second one than I did with the same material. I had high hopes for the material, because the silver was high grade, but the vein just wasn't big enough for my liking. I think you sent me the better slab. The first cab I was concentrating on the silver because it was so prominent. On the second cab, it was all about the matrix for me. I've still got another cab dopped and ready to go with that second slab. I've gotta try something different for the polish on it this time to see if I can avoid that orange peel... Excuse my ignorance, what is orange peel? Looked fine to me |
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Post by greig on Feb 19, 2021 23:11:51 GMT -5
FYI - I polished up a silver nugget this afternoon for somebody. On spec. I used automotive alloy rim polish and a soft cloth. It took a nice looking nuggie (from my rock tumbler) and made it outstanding. Didn't look real it was so shiny. I don't know if that was a fluke, but am for sure going to try it again. Next time, I will take before and after pictures
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 23:11:59 GMT -5
I think you sent me the better slab. The first cab I was concentrating on the silver because it was so prominent. On the second cab, it was all about the matrix for me. I've still got another cab dopped and ready to go with that second slab. I've gotta try something different for the polish on it this time to see if I can avoid that orange peel... Excuse my ignorance, what is orange peel? Looked fine to me If you look close (zoom in) the surface of the stone became "pitted" and uneven - just like the outer peel is on an orange. I've had that happen on several of my cabs and I'm struggling with understanding how and when it happens. Basically, it doesn't have that glass-like surface that I'm shooting for on my cabs...like the "experts" get on theirs. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 23:12:49 GMT -5
FYI - I polished up a silver nugget this afternoon for somebody. On spec. I used automotive alloy rim polish and a soft cloth. It took a nice looking nuggie (from my rock tumbler) and made it outstanding. Didn't look real it was so shiny. I don't know if that was a fluke, but am for sure going to try it again. Next time, I will take before and after pictures I wondered if something like that would work on this ore!  |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 19, 2021 23:26:56 GMT -5
Linde A was a proprietary polish made by Union Carbide. It's no longer available. You can look for aluminum Oxide 'A' which is usually .3 micron. That's what we use. I have no idea if The Rock Shed's polish is the same size or not. You'd have to ask them.
There's also a 'B' and a 'C'. The B is .02 micron which is used for things like telescope lenses and such. Overkill for polishing rocks. The C is 1.0 micron, I believe.
I would use the same proportions for all the oxides. You can always adjust amounts to suit your results.
If you're making a slurry, I would use a small amount (a couple, three teaspoons maybe) in a small dish and just add enough water until you get the right consistency. If it dries out, just add more water again. There's really no magic formulas for any of it and you can adjust it until you get what works best for you. I'm a cerium girl and Vince likes Alumina. Go figure ...
I have never used oxalic acid with a polish. I think I need to pull out my book and see what he says about that. They made a lot of concoctions back then and I've never really had a need to get that "mad scientist" to polish a stone.
Rons Rocks on Ebay has real Linde A. I just bought some. 
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 19, 2021 23:31:55 GMT -5
If you are going to use diamond on any of them. A few dots of diamond paste dotted around the lap and spread around with your finger with some extender oil is all you need. Add more diamond paste when you need it. Eventually the lap will be charged with enough diamond that you don't need to recharge as often or with as much.
I have diamond paste. Do you use that on leather or just a polish pad? I was sold 2 polish pads - for 3000 and 14000 grit diamond paste. Also, dumb question - what is extender oil? I have motor oil, olive oil, gun oil and many others, but none are "extender". Any really thin oil like sewing machine oil will work. Basically it allows the diamond to be distributed more evenly over the lap and prevents clumping of the diamond so you don't get a big old gouge in your stone. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 23:33:01 GMT -5
Linde A was a proprietary polish made by Union Carbide. It's no longer available. You can look for aluminum Oxide 'A' which is usually .3 micron. That's what we use. I have no idea if The Rock Shed's polish is the same size or not. You'd have to ask them.
There's also a 'B' and a 'C'. The B is .02 micron which is used for things like telescope lenses and such. Overkill for polishing rocks. The C is 1.0 micron, I believe.
I would use the same proportions for all the oxides. You can always adjust amounts to suit your results.
If you're making a slurry, I would use a small amount (a couple, three teaspoons maybe) in a small dish and just add enough water until you get the right consistency. If it dries out, just add more water again. There's really no magic formulas for any of it and you can adjust it until you get what works best for you. I'm a cerium girl and Vince likes Alumina. Go figure ...
I have never used oxalic acid with a polish. I think I need to pull out my book and see what he says about that. They made a lot of concoctions back then and I've never really had a need to get that "mad scientist" to polish a stone.
Rons Rocks on Ebay has real Linde A. I just bought some.
Thank you Robin!!! transforce430 on eBay has some also. I bought some rocks from them last week and forgot to have them add it to my order! Dangit all...I'll have to order some more rocks just so I can get the Linde A! LOL I'll have to look again where I saw the additive of the oxalic acid... |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 19, 2021 23:38:01 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance, what is orange peel? Looked fine to me If you look close (zoom in) the surface of the stone became "pitted" and uneven - just like the outer peel is on an orange. I've had that happen on several of my cabs and I'm struggling with understanding how and when it happens. Basically, it doesn't have that glass-like surface that I'm shooting for on my cabs...like the "experts" get on theirs. This is the best explanation of orange peel that I've seen:
"Different stones orange peel at different grits. The frustrating later orange peel you are referring to comes at the finer diamond grits , over 3,000 usually. This occurs because the softer fibers of the rock are being plucked out but the harder ones remain . Grits such as 1200 or 600 cut both hardness fibers in the rock equally so orange peel does not develop. As you go to a finer grit the harder fibers resist the cutting action and stand proud while the softer ones keep getting plucked out.
The possible solution is to go back to the last grit that did not result in orange peel and thoroughly resand. Then go to either 14,000 or 50,000 diamond and try them . One of these grits may be fine enough that both hard and soft fibers are polished rather than plucked."
Hope that helps explain the problem and possible solution better.
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 19, 2021 23:47:11 GMT -5
If you look close (zoom in) the surface of the stone became "pitted" and uneven - just like the outer peel is on an orange. I've had that happen on several of my cabs and I'm struggling with understanding how and when it happens. Basically, it doesn't have that glass-like surface that I'm shooting for on my cabs...like the "experts" get on theirs. This is the best explanation of orange peel that I've seen:
"Different stones orange peel at different grits. The frustrating later orange peel you are referring to comes at the finer diamond grits , over 3,000 usually. This occurs because the softer fibers of the rock are being plucked out but the harder ones remain . Grits such as 1200 or 600 cut both hardness fibers in the rock equally so orange peel does not develop. As you go to a finer grit the harder fibers resist the cutting action and stand proud while the softer ones keep getting plucked out.
The possible solution is to go back to the last grit that did not result in orange peel and thoroughly resand. Then go to either 14,000 or 50,000 diamond and try them . One of these grits may be fine enough that both hard and soft fibers are polished rather than plucked."
Hope that helps explain the problem and possible solution better.
This is the bomb!!! I totally get it! That makes so much sense. I swore I saw NO orange peel at the 1200 stage...but then second guessed myself once I finished the 3000 grit... You're awesome... seriously awesome Robin!!! |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 19, 2021 23:54:01 GMT -5
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 20, 2021 0:53:40 GMT -5
transforce430 on eBay has some also. I bought some rocks from them last week and forgot to have them add it to my order! Dangit all...I'll have to order some more rocks just so I can get the Linde A! LOL I'll have to look again where I saw the additive of the oxalic acid... FYI - transforce430 is selling your basic .3 micron Aluminum Oxide. Everyone still calls it Linde "A". If it doesn't say it's made by Union Carbide, it's not the original. Vince told me he had read an article somewhere that said that UC had some type of method to round the AO particles that was the proprietary part. Rounded edges = less chance of scratching.
If you use too much AO you could end up with little furrows in your stone says Vince, the voice of experience.
Vince also reminded me that using Oxalic Acid (vinegar was also used in the past) with your machine is not a good idea. It will eventually pit and eat the metal.  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 20, 2021 1:12:43 GMT -5
transforce430 on eBay has some also. I bought some rocks from them last week and forgot to have them add it to my order! Dangit all...I'll have to order some more rocks just so I can get the Linde A! LOL I'll have to look again where I saw the additive of the oxalic acid... FYI - transforce430 is selling your basic .3 micron Aluminum Oxide. Everyone still calls it Linde "A". If it doesn't say it's made by Union Carbide, it's not the original. Vince told me he had read an article somewhere that said that UC had some type of method to round the AO particles that was the proprietary part. Rounded edges = less chance of scratching.
If you use too much AO you could end up with little furrows in your stone says Vince, the voice of experience.
Vince also reminded me that using Oxalic Acid (vinegar was also used in the past) with your machine is not a good idea. It will eventually pit and eat the metal. Once again, I really owe you guys! Thank you...once again...and please thank Vince for me too. These are the little tidbits I'd have no other way of knowing without forum members like you two! (Unless of course I were to ever contact the local club that YOU found for me - and someone there shared the info with me! LOL) Crossing Oxalic acid off the list...and added your recommended supplier to my eBay favorites list. |
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Post by greig on Feb 20, 2021 2:07:31 GMT -5
quote: Crossing Oxalic acid off the list...and added your recommended supplier to my eBay favorites list. end quote FYI - Careful with any acid and rocks. Some are very affected. For example, calcite and dolomite will rapidly etch. Probably not what you want to happen during a polish. For example, I use table vinegar or HCL to remove calcite from crystals (that are not affected). |
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,512
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Post by Brian on Feb 20, 2021 8:23:52 GMT -5
If you look close (zoom in) the surface of the stone became "pitted" and uneven - just like the outer peel is on an orange. I've had that happen on several of my cabs and I'm struggling with understanding how and when it happens. Basically, it doesn't have that glass-like surface that I'm shooting for on my cabs...like the "experts" get on theirs. This is the best explanation of orange peel that I've seen:
"Different stones orange peel at different grits. The frustrating later orange peel you are referring to comes at the finer diamond grits , over 3,000 usually. This occurs because the softer fibers of the rock are being plucked out but the harder ones remain . Grits such as 1200 or 600 cut both hardness fibers in the rock equally so orange peel does not develop. As you go to a finer grit the harder fibers resist the cutting action and stand proud while the softer ones keep getting plucked out.
The possible solution is to go back to the last grit that did not result in orange peel and thoroughly resand. Then go to either 14,000 or 50,000 diamond and try them . One of these grits may be fine enough that both hard and soft fibers are polished rather than plucked."
Hope that helps explain the problem and possible solution better.
I’ve got to echo Jason’s comments. You and Vince are such an amazing couple! I love reading your posts. They are always so helpful and positive! I have no plans to cab (yet, should I say?) but I love reading your posts because they are so informative! I’m obsessed with learning how things work and it is such a joy to see such well thought out and knowledgeable posts. Thank you so much for that!! |
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Post by toiv0 on Feb 20, 2021 8:36:56 GMT -5
Great càbs and a great thread all together. Here are two cabs made from Greigs material. Not much calcite in it. But you can see little plumes in them. greig crystalized silver?   |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 20, 2021 9:44:08 GMT -5
quote: Crossing Oxalic acid off the list...and added your recommended supplier to my eBay favorites list. end quote FYI - Careful with any acid and rocks. Some are very affected. For example, calcite and dolomite will rapidly etch. Probably not what you want to happen during a polish. For example, I use table vinegar or HCL to remove calcite from crystals (that are not affected). Talk about major orange peel! 
Very good point, greig and so true. |
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