standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325 
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Post by standles on Apr 11, 2021 9:52:58 GMT -5
Morning all: I am dipping my toe into the silversmithing waters. I have been stressing over torch. At present I have gotten by with a small kitchen butane torch but know when I want to move up to bracelets etc that it will not be enough. Beyond that I already have at my disposal (from a tool addiction problem) the following: 1. Large Victor Oxy/Acetylene Cutting torch (Cuts up to 3/4" steel) 2. Old sears single tip Mapp/Oxy disposable bottle torch kit 3. Benzomatic propane bottle type 4. Propane Torch Kit
Now of course I have been reading an eyeing the smith little torch assuming it could use existing ocx/acet setup with simple adpater and saw the silversmith acet torch as well. My concerns are all of my torch options above are large flames/tips so limited precison. additionally with the MAPP being expensive and harder to find how long will a bottle last. So your recommendation. Do I have what I need just adapt through new tips and such or would a metalsmithing specific torch benefit? If so your reference. Thanks, Steven PS. I have been leaning towards the Smith adapted to my large tanks and regs but don't know if that is possible. |
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pizzano
Cave Dweller 
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Apr 11, 2021 11:14:38 GMT -5
Almost all of the serious jewelry craft folks I know use an Acetylene air touch torch.......variable tips sizes, easy maintenance and long lasting life span seem to be the main reasons.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 12, 2021 6:28:00 GMT -5
Thanks pizzano. I am seeing the same thing in my research |
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Apr 12, 2021 10:09:59 GMT -5
standles Steven, I can't help you on what you SHOULD buy, but I know what not to get lol. For the few pieces I've smithed I've used a "plumber's torch" kit (uses propane and oxygen disposable tanks). It works well enough but after using Billy's little torch once briefly I realized quickly the plumber's torch has too powerful and too large of a flame. Plus it goes through oxygen tanks like candy and those are really expensive for what they are. I had the torch before this hobby so it wasn't a loss of $ that I learned the hard way but it sure drives home "the right tool for the job" mantra 👍
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Post by opalpyrexia on Apr 12, 2021 10:35:36 GMT -5
You should also take a look at the Meco Midget.
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Post by Pat on Apr 12, 2021 12:14:04 GMT -5
I use the ORCA propane, and the bigger plumber’s torch, and the creme brûlée torch, and the Blazer mini butane torch. I like them all. Butane for the smaller torches, snd propane for the others. My pencil/butane torch rarely gets used.
I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Smith Little Torch from those who want more power.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 12, 2021 14:56:28 GMT -5
standles Steven, I can't help you on what you SHOULD buy, but I know what not to get lol. For the few pieces I've smithed I've used a "plumber's torch" kit (uses propane and oxygen disposable tanks). It works well enough but after using Billy's little torch once briefly I realized quickly the plumber's torch has too powerful and too large of a flame. Plus it goes through oxygen tanks like candy and those are really expensive for what they are. I had the torch before this hobby so it wasn't a loss of $ that I learned the hard way but it sure drives home "the right tool for the job" mantra 👍 Same here. even though I had a Mapp/Oxy torch I wasn't keen on that being the answer due to cost and availability of cylinders. The down side to my large tanks is well they are large and setup for steel cuttting. would rather not keep swapping back and forth. You should also take a look at the Meco Midget. Thanks for the pointer I will look them up. I did some research on torches not long ago, and got some advice from one jeweler, the Orca propane air ez torch was the overall first torch recommendation. Propane burns cleaner and is safer to store than acetylene, if you’re a homeowner with insurance you might want to check with your insurer about keeping acetylene at home and follow their guidelines for storage if they have them. I had not considered propane or Orca but will look into them. Thanks for the tip. I use the ORCA propane, and the bigger plumber’s torch, and the creme brûlée torch, and the Blazer mini butane torch. I like them all. Butane for the smaller torches, snd propane for the others. My pencil/butane torch rarely gets used. I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Smith Little Torch from those who want more power. Thanks for insight. I am mainly using my brulee torch now. On the larger cabs it is struggling but my larger torches lack the accuracy hence my issue. I am wanting to go up to working on bracelet size pieces so I know the brulee won't cut it there. Since your another vote for orca I will definately give them a look see. Thanks everyone for your help and advice. |
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Post by Pat on Apr 12, 2021 16:33:03 GMT -5
In a pinch, you can use two brûlée torches—- one to keep one end hot, and the other to do the business. Might need a friend.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 13, 2021 4:58:00 GMT -5
In a pinch, you can use two brûlée torches—- one to keep one end hot, and the other to do the business. Might need a friend. Definitely would need a friend I am barely coordinated enough to hold the torch and a solder pick.  |
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Post by lpl on Apr 13, 2021 14:01:45 GMT -5
I'm in the Orca camp. I learned on a plumbers propane torch and its definitely not ideal. But, it will teach you heat control and if you can pick solder ok, you can do just about anything with one really. After moving up a bit in classes, I used my teachers acetylene/air set up. I don't know the brand. It gave amazing heat. But I didn't really love it. I decided I'd stick with propane air, so went with the Orca. It comes with 3 different tips, so you can switch them out depending on your job. Propane tanks are like $4 and last a long time I don't have acetylene in the house. But, the flame isn't as tight, so a Smith little torch would be nice in certain situations. Good luck!
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brotherbill
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2018
Posts: 388
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Post by brotherbill on Apr 13, 2021 17:17:19 GMT -5
At home I use an Orca. No oxygen $$$ make it economical compared to the Little Torch. It's only limitation is it is very inefficient for melting significant amounts of silver.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Apr 13, 2021 21:47:45 GMT -5
I started with a plain butane torch: not hot enough for my work style.
I then went to a full Oxy/Acetylene set-up: too hot and too dirty, lots of melted "jewelry."
I did some research and settled on a Smith Little Torch with Oxy/Propane. Clean and hot enough with various tips for most projects I tackled, including melting up to a couple of ounces of metal for casting with a rosebud tip. Warning: do insurance and safety research on using both indoors. Propane tanks are prone to discharging gas (heavier than air) under some high heat circumstances and can explode on reaching flame (gas water heaters for one.) Many jewelers pipe their propane in from outdoors. The Orchid Forum has lots of good info on this.
I've also used the Meco and Hoke torches and like both a lot. They come with tip assortments that give lots of choices on flame size and fuel.
Just my experience, hope it helps.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 14, 2021 10:41:09 GMT -5
I started with a plain plumbers torch using disposable propane tanks. Also have a couple of butane torches and I still use those for small soldering jobs. I also have an Orca which I really don't care for much. Controlling the flame on it is difficult for me.
I was gifted a Smith Little Torch set up for oxy/acetylene with the small tanks and another Little Torch still in the box. I don't want acetylene in my house, so I am planning on setting up the other Little Torch with an oxygen generator and still using the disposable propane tanks. I have the oxygen generator already. Just need to buy the correct fittings for it and I will be good to go (hopefully). No bottled oxygen to buy and the disposable propane tanks are cheap. Most insurance companies will cover you with this set up. Check with your insurance carrier. Some city codes also regulate this, so check what your code is.
Here's a video explaining the set up of the oxygen generator and disposable propane tanks for the Little Torch:
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Post by greig on Apr 14, 2021 10:44:18 GMT -5
I can tell you one to avoid: Ronson Tech Torch Auto Start (by Zippo).
They are still being sold in a few stores who "didn't get the memo". Great little hot-burning butane torch, but it has a known fire problem. Something happens inside and it doesn't turn off. Mine failed after 3rd use. The good news is there is a recall, so you can get a refund after disabling the device and returning one of the parts.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Apr 14, 2021 13:05:59 GMT -5
I started with a plain plumbers torch using disposable propane tanks. Also have a couple of butane torches and I still use those for small soldering jobs. I also have an Orca which I really don't care for much. Controlling the flame on it is difficult for me. I was gifted a Smith Little Torch set up for oxy/acetylene with the small tanks and another Little Torch still in the box. I don't want acetylene in my house, so I am planning on setting up the other Little Torch with an oxygen generator and still using the disposable propane tanks. I have the oxygen generator already. Just need to buy the correct fittings for it and I will be good to go (hopefully). No bottled oxygen to buy and the disposable propane tanks are cheap. Most insurance companies will cover you with this set up. Check with your insurance carrier. Some city codes also regulate this, so check what your code is.
Here's a video explaining the set up of the oxygen generator and disposable propane tanks for the Little Torch:
Thanks for that post! I have an unused oxy generator and I hadn't thought of using it for that purpose. Sounds like it'll work just fine. No hassle with refilling tanks. Great post! |
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Apr 16, 2021 11:17:02 GMT -5
I kick myself every time I see an oxygen generator mentioned. I was at my local scrap metal yard one day and I watched a guy unload several (read a van full) of them. Looked at them and almost grabbed one and thought nah, I'm not set up for that yet ... 😫
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 16, 2021 11:42:28 GMT -5
I kick myself every time I see an oxygen generator mentioned. I was at my local scrap metal yard one day and I watched a guy unload several (read a van full) of them. Looked at them and almost grabbed one and thought nah, I'm not set up for that yet ... 😫 Check Craigs List in your area and estate/yard sales. People get rid of them cheap all the time. |
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dshanpnw
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2020
Posts: 1,157
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Post by dshanpnw on Jun 24, 2024 11:20:13 GMT -5
I started with a plain butane torch: not hot enough for my work style. I then went to a full Oxy/Acetylene set-up: too hot and too dirty, lots of melted "jewelry." I did some research and settled on a Smith Little Torch with Oxy/Propane. Clean and hot enough with various tips for most projects I tackled, including melting up to a couple of ounces of metal for casting with a rosebud tip. Warning: do insurance and safety research on using both indoors. Propane tanks are prone to discharging gas (heavier than air) under some high heat circumstances and can explode on reaching flame (gas water heaters for one.) Many jewelers pipe their propane in from outdoors. The Orchid Forum has lots of good info on this. I've also used the Meco and Hoke torches and like both a lot. They come with tip assortments that give lots of choices on flame size and fuel. Just my experience, hope it helps. Hello gemfeller, I am glad you posted about Smith Little torch. I am considering buying one and one of the things I need to know to help with the decision is how long the acetylene and oxygen tanks last under normal use. I'm just a very beginner. How long does the gas last for you? I was thinking of the 10CF Acetylene and 20CF oxygen. I was looking at the kit on Rio Grande. Thanks also for the warning about insurance. |
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dshanpnw
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2020
Posts: 1,157
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Post by dshanpnw on Jun 24, 2024 11:24:49 GMT -5
I started with a plain plumbers torch using disposable propane tanks. Also have a couple of butane torches and I still use those for small soldering jobs. I also have an Orca which I really don't care for much. Controlling the flame on it is difficult for me.
I was gifted a Smith Little Torch set up for oxy/acetylene with the small tanks and another Little Torch still in the box. I don't want acetylene in my house, so I am planning on setting up the other Little Torch with an oxygen generator and still using the disposable propane tanks. I have the oxygen generator already. Just need to buy the correct fittings for it and I will be good to go (hopefully). No bottled oxygen to buy and the disposable propane tanks are cheap. Most insurance companies will cover you with this set up. Check with your insurance carrier. Some city codes also regulate this, so check what your code is.
Here's a video explaining the set up of the oxygen generator and disposable propane tanks for the Little Torch:
Hello hummingbirdstones, I am considering buying the Smith Little torch kit as a beginner. One question I have is how long does the acetylene and oxygen gases last you with typical use? Second, is acetylene very dangerous that you don't want it in your house? Thanks
Doug
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 24, 2024 13:30:29 GMT -5
I started with a plain butane torch: not hot enough for my work style. I then went to a full Oxy/Acetylene set-up: too hot and too dirty, lots of melted "jewelry." I did some research and settled on a Smith Little Torch with Oxy/Propane. Clean and hot enough with various tips for most projects I tackled, including melting up to a couple of ounces of metal for casting with a rosebud tip. Warning: do insurance and safety research on using both indoors. Propane tanks are prone to discharging gas (heavier than air) under some high heat circumstances and can explode on reaching flame (gas water heaters for one.) Many jewelers pipe their propane in from outdoors. The Orchid Forum has lots of good info on this. I've also used the Meco and Hoke torches and like both a lot. They come with tip assortments that give lots of choices on flame size and fuel. Just my experience, hope it helps. Hello gemfeller, I am glad you posted about Smith Little torch. I am considering buying one and one of the things I need to know to help with the decision is how long the acetylene and oxygen tanks last under normal use. I'm just a very beginner. How long does the gas last for you? I was thinking of the 10CF Acetylene and 20CF oxygen. I was looking at the kit on Rio Grande. Thanks also for the warning about insurance. It obviously depends on the size of the tanks and usage. I have no experience with the small disposable tanks. I used a regular camping-style propane tank and a B tank for oxy. They lasted quite a while for me with moderate usage. |
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