katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 3, 2021 15:52:13 GMT -5
This is only my second batch of rocks (in a vibratory) but I think both times I've messed up the 500 grit. I think I have the rocks too wet during that stage. They've been in polish for two days now and I pulled out one of the rocks and I'm thinking this isn't a polishing issue. Can anyone verify Polishing isn't going to fix this? I assume I have to go back to 500 grit.
Here's the rock wet and then after bloting it dry - after 2 days in polish stage.
Also, I bought the 120/500/polish from rockshed. Should I just get the 1000 also and would it have helped or would I have still had to go back to 500 (if that is the problem)?
Thanks for any advice.
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Post by As I in does tries! on Jul 3, 2021 16:08:52 GMT -5
Greetings by the looks this stone should still be in Fixed 80 (60/90) grit in a rotary tumbler for at least 2 week cycles!
The vibe cannot round stones properly you need a rotary!
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 3, 2021 16:22:27 GMT -5
Ahh. I really like the rock shape it's in. From what I've read, I don't have to make it perfectly round for the vibratory tumbler. Am I wrong? (Also, I think this rock cracked because I put a large rock in that may have been too large.) I'm not trying to make it perfect but I would like to figure out why they keep turning white after they dry. My first batch wasn't as bad but some definitely seemed as though they turned a bit more white.
From the directions I've seen, all I can think of is my 500 grit is too wet. That or I need to use better water - but I thought the burmishing stage took care of that.
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Post by pauls on Jul 3, 2021 16:59:12 GMT -5
It looks like it has been bashed up, any stage where the stones are hitting each other hard will do this, you will need to take it right back and run it through the stages again.
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
Posts: 866
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Post by lordsorril on Jul 3, 2021 17:03:35 GMT -5
It is possible to hammer rocks in your vibe, too wet and too dry are definitely issues. I suspect the stone had imperfections to start. The surface of that rock is very uneven and is capturing grit (which is evident when it dries). A polish won't stick to a textured surface. It looks good when it is wet due to capillary action holding onto the water and reflecting the light. It is fine if you want to keep it underwater, but, if you are looking for a stable polish then you will have to smooth it out. If it was my stone I would send it through a rotary @120/220 SiC for at least a week and then vibe it with a cycle of 220, 500, and Polish. You could hypothetically keep running it repeatedly in 220 AOx in your vibe until it is smooth, but, if it is a mohs 7 then you are looking at many cycles.
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 3, 2021 17:07:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's not that it needs to be perfectly round but it has too many cracks and thus the polish is getting stuck in the cracks and that's why you're saying it needs to go back to the rough grit? I can see that. In that case, some of the other rocks should be better. Maybe I'll pull the rest out tonight and figure it out from there.
@as I in does tries! Thanks!!
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 3, 2021 17:14:22 GMT -5
lordsorrilIt is fairly cracked. You seem to be right. I was so stuck on the 500 grit being a problem I didn't think about it being the only rock I checked and I checked it because I knew it took a beating in the tumbler. I expected cracked but didn't think about the polish being stuck in the cracks. Duh. Thanks again!!
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 3, 2021 20:35:24 GMT -5
pauls, I just saw your message. Thank you. lordsorrilSo, you do use a rotary on some of your stones. I haven't bought a rotary... yet. I think I will keep throwing this rock into the 120/220 cycle and, now that I just watched your latest video, I'm going to see how long I can go without a rotary. If I ever get into more complicated rocks, I assume I'll need to get it, but I feel like I'm already in far enough and I'd like to stick to one thing for awhile. Thanks for the advice everyone!
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jul 4, 2021 7:18:25 GMT -5
Just my personal opinion but, I'd scrap the idea of ever getting that rock to look good. I don't think the problem is the grit or polish number. What was the Mohs number on it? I would suggest sticking with rocks with a Mohs number of at least a 7. rocktumbler.com/tips/mohs-hardness/
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
Posts: 866
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Post by lordsorril on Jul 4, 2021 12:48:37 GMT -5
lordsorril So, you do use a rotary on some of your stones. I haven't bought a rotary... yet. You bet! My rotaries do the 'heavy lifting' and the vibe finishes the job. Some rocks are so jagged and angry shaped that I wouldn't dare put them in the vibe (especially at high mohs rating) without a bit of rotary action first...
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 4, 2021 22:23:12 GMT -5
No wonder you aren't worried about how many rocks you take home.
For right now I'm trying to run some rocks really quickly. I bring too many rocks home and am having to take rocks back to my walking area because I'm overwhelmed. I'm really just trying to experiment with rock type and figure out what some of the really nice rocks looked like before I polished them so I can get more of those and start learning how to polish those. (Really wish I'd started with the 5 or 10lb vibe instead of the 18 so I could match before and after pics easier.)
After reading the responses and watching a few rotary videos earlier showing they don't necessarily take away the rocks shape. I'll look into a double barrel tumbler.
I appreciate all the feedback from you and everyone else. Thank you.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jul 5, 2021 9:34:03 GMT -5
Hopefully your running ceramic pellets in the batch too..
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 6, 2021 23:16:01 GMT -5
fossilmanI'm such an idiot. Sure enough, since there are/were no extra bowls to be found, and my CE instructions said not to run ceramic pellets (it probably said 'no rocks' also but...), I ended up buying tile spacers to fill the bowl. I'm wondering if the tile spacers aren't the best choice. I forgot all about making that decision. I'm still worried about wearing out my bowl too soon (and after watching a few videos, I also didn't fill the bowl enough to keep the big rocks from cracking the smaller ones,) so I'll play around with a few more batches while waiting for a bowl. If nothing else it should give me some smooth filler rock. Thank you!
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 6, 2021 23:20:14 GMT -5
lordsorrilI don't suppose you would be able to show me the end result of tumbling that jagged rock, would you? Thanks again.
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
Posts: 866
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Post by lordsorril on Jul 7, 2021 5:03:34 GMT -5
lordsorril I don't suppose you would be able to show me the end result of tumbling that jagged rock, would you? Thanks again. Hahaha, no. I haven't tumbled it yet. A lot of times I will hit rocks like that with one or two rounds of coarse grit (46/60/80/90 SiC-whatevers cheapest): Then I will examine the rock to look for hard fracture lines or sharp angles in the rock. At that point I will take a small sledge and rock chisel and then split the rock along the obvious lines. I expect the rock pictured above to actually become 3 or 4 pieces as a final product. In the event I saw no hard fractures I would tumble the stone as one piece. I do have a similar piece of material already tumbled (pictured below). I don't mind a certain level of imperfection in my rocks. I can live with the pits--I think they add character.
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kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
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Post by kyoti on Jul 7, 2021 11:37:59 GMT -5
I agree with what others have said that the rotary tumblers do a good job of smoothing out all the cracks and imperfections in rocks. You can however actually run your batches in the vibe only. I did so for awhile until I bought a rotary to tame my jaggedy rocks.
If you run the vibe only, keep these things in mind.
Your rocks will stay about the same shape they start.
Hard rocks like agate will take more time than stated in the directions to smooth down in 120 grit. You'll need to do a cleanout and put new grit in every day or 2.
Fragile rocks like quartzes that crack easily should be run with a lot more ceramics than rocks. That will keep them from getting bashed agan. I do about a 2 to 1 mixture.
Aluminum polish will show all the flaws and hidden cracks because the powder is so fine. You can mostly salvage a rock by a combination of toothbrush scrubbing and using a hose sprayer. The best bet if you end up with lots of cracks is to just send the rock back to the 120 grit for another round.
The vibe is awesome for softer rocks. You can round and polish things like Apatite, Amazonite, Fluorite, moonstone and marble and limestones.
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Post by As I in does tries! on Jul 12, 2021 20:22:41 GMT -5
Greetings Katie, as for a rotary tumbler my 2cents is to get nothing less than a Lortone QT12 as shown by [lordsorril], it alone can process up to 35 pounds of rock per a single 12lb barrel, a Lortone 33B or QT66 dual barrel tumblers won't give you enough rock to fill your UV18, but it's moot point at the moment as virtually everywhere is out of stock even for crazy money.
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
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Post by lordsorril on Jul 14, 2021 7:23:12 GMT -5
lordsorril I don't suppose you would be able to show me the end result of tumbling that jagged rock, would you? Thanks again. Before #80 SiC grit: After 1 week in a QT12: The stone split on its own, saved me the effort of having to do it myself.
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 18, 2021 14:49:23 GMT -5
I agree with what others have said that the rotary tumblers do a good job of smoothing out all the cracks and imperfections in rocks. You can however actually run your batches in the vibe only. I did so for awhile until I bought a rotary to tame my jaggedy rocks. If you run the vibe only, keep these things in mind. Your rocks will stay about the same shape they start. Hard rocks like agate will take more time than stated in the directions to smooth down in 120 grit. You'll need to do a cleanout and put new grit in every day or 2. Fragile rocks like quartzes that crack easily should be run with a lot more ceramics than rocks. That will keep them from getting bashed agan. I do about a 2 to 1 mixture. Aluminum polish will show all the flaws and hidden cracks because the powder is so fine. You can mostly salvage a rock by a combination of toothbrush scrubbing and using a hose sprayer. The best bet if you end up with lots of cracks is to just send the rock back to the 120 grit for another round. The vibe is awesome for softer rocks. You can round and polish things like Apatite, Amazonite, Fluorite, moonstone and marble and limestones. Ah. I got it in my head that 'quartzes' were easy. I think I did see that they weren't the easiest when I started a couple of months ago but I've read so much everything got jumbled in my head. Admittely, I accidentally got chalcedony in the first batch and it was by far the most incredible looking and took very little work so I should have realized the quartzy stuff was harder.
When I started, most things I read said you don't usually need filler for the first grit because you have enough rock. Now I wonder if I don't have as much small rock as most people. (I tried to get more smaller rocks to fill in but they get eaten up and I get attached to them so I have a hard time picking up beautiful small rocks that I know are going to wear down to nothing.) I'm not sure how well the tile separators I use work but after reading what you said I'm thinking even if they do work I don't have enough. Maybe I'll do a combo of tile separators (since I have them) and ceramics and see how that goes. I have enough chalcedony to run in the 18 but I was afraid to run it thinking I was going to do the wrong thing and was learning on the other rocks. Now I think they'll be easier but maybe I don't have enough small pieces. If they really are that easy, I'm not sure if I need filler or what the best filler would be.
As for the shape, I'm not ready to change the shape too much yet. I really just like the rocks (I lost two that I loved in the first batch) so I don't know where I'll go from here. I have other stuff I'm supposed to be doing but since I'm up to my ears in rocks that I've picked up, I think I'll be experimenting with the polishing for awhile. I really appreciate the tips.
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katie
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 39
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Post by katie on Jul 18, 2021 14:52:30 GMT -5
Greetings Katie, as for a rotary tumbler my 2cents is to get nothing less than a Lortone QT12 as shown by [lordsorril], it alone can process up to 35 pounds of rock per a single 12lb barrel, a Lortone 33B or QT66 dual barrel tumblers won't give you enough rock to fill your UV18, but it's moot point at the moment as virtually everywhere is out of stock even for crazy money. So good to know. I'm trying to get into this slowly so I'm kind of happy everything is sold out right now. Thanks a ton for the info. I'll be looking into that while waiting - and while I experiment and figure out which way to go.
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