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Post by Rockindad on Sept 16, 2021 18:51:27 GMT -5
A little background: We are currently tumblers and while we do make a fair amount of pendants that have sold well they are all vibe finished. That being said we do our best to shape them nicely, dome them, etc. As can happen in a vibe sometimes a piece will wear unevenly, develop a fracture, etc. Any that are not up to snuff are repurposed: better ones get made into magnets, some are just thrown into the freebie bowl and others just need to get set aside to be worked on in the future. We plan to be into proper cabbing within the year and have a notebook of ideas for building our own machine.
Now for the matter at hand: I have been working on a project lately which has consumed a large portion of our slabs, so it was time to restock. I ordered 48 slabs from an online vendor with whom I have placed four similar orders in the past and have generally been happy. As we were going through this order and checking them off the invoice I noticed there seemed to be many that were wedge shaped so we started over again to really look at them. 13 out of 48 were what I consider poorly cut in that the thickness varies 1/16" to 1/8", some even more. These are small slabs, averaging between 2" to 3" square so it is a lot more noticeable that if it was off this much on a 6" slab. Thicknesses of slabs were given in the online descriptions and no mention was made of any unevenness. Frankly we do better than this on our 6" trim saw and tile saws.
I know some of this can be remedied by grinding and I would not mind doing this if this was disclosed. Some of these taper down so much as to limit what can be done with the slab. Even if it were a handful I wouldn't mind, but a quarter of the order seems excessive. We only have two cheapo 6" x 1" diamond wheels which really couldn't take these down in a reasonable amount of time. Not to mention we will likely have a bunch of these left when we are trying to make proper cabochons.
My question for all here: what do you consider an acceptable variance? Was going to call them today to complain but decided to wait and get input from experienced cabbers here.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by Pat on Sept 16, 2021 19:03:53 GMT -5
Full disclosure is a must. I’d be disappointed, and would let the vendor know. Good luck.
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NDK
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Sept 16, 2021 19:23:30 GMT -5
I agree with Pat. I'm surprised there's that many that are cut crooked.
I'd contact the seller and simply explain your dissatisfaction.
An additional thought, was there anything on the listing anywhere that may have explained the unevenness? My dissatisfaction would also depend on the price I paid.
Good luck
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 16, 2021 19:39:41 GMT -5
I agree with Pat. I'm surprised there's that many that are cut crooked. I'd contact the seller and simply explain your dissatisfaction. An additional thought, was there anything on the listing anywhere that may have explained the unevenness? My dissatisfaction would also depend on the price I paid. Good luck No mention of the unevenness in the listings. Prices were relatively cheap, but slabs also small. Do not want to name the seller prematurely, more than willing to have a conversation that can hopefully be productive. I would like to be able to order from them again in the future. They typically throw in freebies which are poorly cut/end pieces most of the time, that is understandable. |
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Post by parfive on Sept 16, 2021 19:59:49 GMT -5
Not to mention we will likely have a bunch of these left when we are trying to make proper cabochons. Not the end of the world for cutting cabs. You’ll just have less to grind on one side of the preform and more on the other. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 16, 2021 20:09:43 GMT -5
I would call them and express your dissatisfaction with the fact that it was not disclosed on the listings that the slabs were uneven. Was there more than one picture of the slabs that you could look and see that they were uneven?
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 17, 2021 5:40:58 GMT -5
Not to mention we will likely have a bunch of these left when we are trying to make proper cabochons. Not the end of the world for cutting cabs. You’ll just have less to grind on one side of the preform and more on the other. Good point, admittedly I have been focusing on the negative. |
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 17, 2021 5:42:24 GMT -5
I would call them and express your dissatisfaction with the fact that it was not disclosed on the listings that the slabs were uneven. Was there more than one picture of the slabs that you could look and see that they were uneven?
Only one photo each Robin, the seller is known for not having the best photo setup. ETA: To clarify, there were multiple photos but they are all relatively the same. All of the “face” just some closer than others. None of the edges. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 17, 2021 6:11:05 GMT -5
Yes, I would have a conversation with them. Not being disclosed is a deal breaker for me. I have passed up many nice wedges because one side is too thin for a cab. So, in essence half the slab is worthless to me.
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 17, 2021 6:38:06 GMT -5
Yes, I would have a conversation with them. Not being disclosed is a deal breaker for me. I have passed up many nice wedges because one side is too thin for a cab. So, in essence half the slab is worthless to me. There were at least a few that tapered down so much that we would be limited to using a less desirable (pattern-wise) portion of the slab. |
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fencejumper
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2021
Posts: 441
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Post by fencejumper on Sept 17, 2021 7:17:54 GMT -5
If they didn’t
State it?
Then they should be free?
Or extreme discount!
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 17, 2021 7:52:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty much on board with what everyone is saying...
If I cut them (for my own use) and they're wedge cuts, its just par for the course (and believe you me - there's been a lot of those! LOL)...but if I'm buying slabs, I expect them to be straight cuts UNLESS it's fully disclosed...and then I want to know the high and the low widths on each side.
Personally, I would contact the seller and ask them what they'd like to do to make this right...and then go from there.
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Post by stephan on Sept 17, 2021 13:14:25 GMT -5
From my own perspective, I'd want it disclosed, especially if one side is too thin. If minimum thickness is sufficient for cabbing, it's not a huge problem, if disclosed and priced appropriately. I've seen slabs that were priced by the carat, where this might be an issue, if you're expected to pay extra for material you'll need to grind off (and use up extra diamonds doing it).
As far as cabbing wedged material, it's not a particular problem for me. I cab a fair amount of end-cuts and small rough, so I'm fairly adept at moving the high spot to where it needs to be for the dome.
I would encourage contacting the seller and asking him/her to make it right. Good luck. Looking forward to an update.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 17, 2021 13:28:38 GMT -5
With slabs, the type of material and pattern are what matter to me. I don't mind some extra grinding to get the cab I want. Cutting uneven slabs by me isn't unusual and happens when I have to remove a rock from the vise and then put it back.
I believe in full disclosure. Value comes first.
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 17, 2021 14:25:33 GMT -5
I suspect that some of the wedged slabs are a result of cutting slabs from a glued-to-wood rock. The wood block face is not always parallel to the blade and then the last slab will be wedged. I know I have a few of those, of course I am not selling slabs. Yet!
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 17, 2021 18:20:19 GMT -5
I suspect that some of the wedged slabs are a result of cutting slabs from a glued-to-wood rock. The wood block face is not always parallel to the blade and then the last slab will be wedged. I know I have a few of those, of course I am not selling slabs. Yet! Totally get that Henry, I always expect one oddball slab per glue up but a good amount of the time that last one turns out decent. |
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Post by stephan on Sept 17, 2021 18:38:08 GMT -5
I also have a friend with a saw that has a vise that doesn't advance. He has to unclamp and move the rock with each cut. He's pretty good, but the slabs are rarely perfect.
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 17, 2021 19:39:46 GMT -5
If they didn’t State it? Then they should be free? Or extreme discount! Definitely not stated Paul. Out of curiosity I went to the website and just started clicking on slabs at random to see if I could find a single one that mentioned the cut was off, etc. Probably looked at 40-50 and could not find a single one. I'm pretty much on board with what everyone is saying... If I cut them (for my own use) and they're wedge cuts, its just par for the course (and believe you me - there's been a lot of those! LOL)...but if I'm buying slabs, I expect them to be straight cuts UNLESS it's fully disclosed...and then I want to know the high and the low widths on each side. Personally, I would contact the seller and ask them what they'd like to do to make this right...and then go from there. Been calling all day, no answer. Just sent a message through their website. It’s harder for me to get the results I expect with wedge shaped slabs, but I’ll work with them if the slab is a real prize. I use a cab rest for everything to get the exact same girdle angle around the entire cab, if the angle changes your shape will be distorted. Two faces of a slab that aren’t parallel will cause the same effect, what would have been round becomes slightly oval if using a cab rest. I like to shape all the sides of a cab as I’m going, this helps me to keep the dome the same shape on all sides. Wedge shaped slabs force me to grind down that high side first, it just throws off my routine a bit. You’re also doing quite a bit of extra grinding if your dome peak is on the thin side of the cab. No real prizes here, but the place has been good for getting a lot of different materials for a good price. The drawback is the slabs offered are universally small. That's part of the problem, going from 7mm thick to 2-3mm thick over 2 inches or so is just plain off. From my own perspective, I'd want it disclosed, especially if one side is too thin. If minimum thickness is sufficient for cabbing, it's not a huge problem, if disclosed and priced appropriately. I've seen slabs that were priced by the carat, where this might be an issue, if you're expected to pay extra for material you'll need to grind off (and use up extra diamonds doing it). As far as cabbing wedged material, it's not a particular problem for me. I cab a fair amount of end-cuts and small rough, so I'm fairly adept at moving the high spot to where it needs to be for the dome. I would encourage contacting the seller and asking him/her to make it right. Good luck. Looking forward to an update. Will update when/if I get a response. With slabs, the type of material and pattern are what matter to me. I don't mind some extra grinding to get the cab I want. Cutting uneven slabs by me isn't unusual and happens when I have to remove a rock from the vise and then put it back. I believe in full disclosure. Value comes first. "Full disclosure" seems to be what everyone agrees on. To be honest I probably still would have purchased some of the slabs even knowing there was an issue but at that point it is my choice. I also have a friend with a saw that has a vise that doesn't advance. He has to unclamp and move the rock with each cut. He's pretty good, but the slabs are rarely perfect. Started thinking about this as a possibility or that they cut a few slabs form a piece, take that rough out and move onto something else. Every time that piece is put back in the vise is an opportunity for a bad cut if the face is not parallel with the blade. |
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Post by Rockindad on Sept 19, 2021 18:49:28 GMT -5
Update: I got a response back from the seller and they seem open to making it right. Been going back and forth via messaging through their website so it's a little slow. They asked if I wanted a refund or if I would provide them with a list of the ones I wanted replaced. I responded that I would rather have the slabs and would even accept substitutions of similar materials if direct replacements are not available, trying to keep this as easy as possible. Sent them the list and am waiting to hear back. I would much rather just have a phone conversation and handle everything at once (and requested it) but trying not to rock the boat too much as it seems to be moving in the right direction.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 19, 2021 19:27:11 GMT -5
Good to hear that. Hopefully, they make it right to your satisfaction and avoid having a disappointed customer who's an active member of an extremely large and wide-reaching lapidary forum.  |
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