ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 17:19:55 GMT -5
If it is mostly rocks in soil, then narrow is best. If mostly soil, larger spoon to move more soil to find the stones.... It's mostly rocks on rocks with some crumbly rocky stuff substituting as soil. Below is a photo of the Cliff Mine poor rock piles. Next pic after that is the Wolverine piles. The piles up there are waste rock from sinking copper mine shafts. I guess the technique involves going through the rocks by hand and busting up ones that look like they have the right inclusions. There is usually a layer of coarse rock a couple of feet deep before you get to the crumbly layers that are sort of like soil. I believe lots of datolite nodules are found in this stuff. There is always an excellent chance of finding native copper and greenstone as well. The consistency of the pile is inconsistent. There might only be a little crumbly stuff before more coarse rock shows up. This is what we have to dig in. ![x_x](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/dead.png) Not anything I would consider soil. ![](https://scontent.fdet1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10710960_778828228862558_3902597572692481358_n.jpg?oh=8d25e10a989f4aa416d3a0250659b0b6&oe=58EC9327) The crumbly stuff can be seen pretty well in the lower left of the following pic. ![](http://www.geo.mtu.edu/KeweenawGeoheritage/BlackLavas/Wolverine_files/P1030166.jpg)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 16:01:37 GMT -5
Which of the following three types of shovel would work best, in your humble opinion, for digging in the piles? First pic is called a drain spade (three of the same basic design.) Second pic shows two different styles of trenching shovels. I'm kind of partial to the drain spade design because of how the handle is not so angled in relation to the blade but I like the sharp point of the trenching shovels but it looks like they are less "foot pushing" friendly. Is there maybe something even better as far as shovels go? ![](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1DN0-V0P--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18l92xoq3agi5jpg.jpg) ![](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zThEjcB---/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18l8z0rxgqoxfjpg.jpg)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 10:04:03 GMT -5
Never used a rock cart , would be great at some of the piles but at some it wouldn't work all that great . I use heavy canvas type bags to carry rock out . Yeah, we use this heavy duty bag we found as well but this time we have been thinking about a cart bag combo. Use the bag while we are on the pile then when it gets full, run it down to the cart at the base of the pile and dump the stuff in. We usually get a trunk full of stuff and it takes three or four trips from the pile to the car to get it all using just the bag. Maybe the cart will make this better. Hubby is thinking of making the cart hold the digging tools around the outside of it as well.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 9:56:43 GMT -5
Some more shared knowledge would be deeply appreciated by me on what tools are best to dig at the rock piles. I have a pick axe and I'm getting a rock pick. Thinking about maybe a chisel and a small sledge hammer. I was wondering if something like a heavy duty garden fork is out there (something with three prongs) that people use. I saw someone using one of those in a video. What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration? Is there any type of prybar that works best? Big wheeled rock cart? (hubby might build one of his own design.) Im sure I dont need to say, but your list doesnt mention a good shovel! Both normal garden size and half width have utiliy. Happy New Year! I specifically asked what kind of shovel would work best quote from above quote of my own " What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration?" Musta had a long day....eh? The half width option would seem to be my choice based on what others have said regarding width of the blade. Is a regular half width garden shovel strong enough to deal with the rocks? Is there some special shovel made just for what we will be doing?
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 27, 2016 17:01:08 GMT -5
Some more shared knowledge would be deeply appreciated by me on what tools are best to dig at the rock piles. I have a pick axe and I'm getting a rock pick. Thinking about maybe a chisel and a small sledge hammer. I was wondering if something like a heavy duty garden fork is out there (something with three prongs) that people use. I saw someone using one of those in a video. What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration? Is there any type of prybar that works best? Big wheeled rock cart? (hubby might build one of his own design.)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 26, 2016 16:28:47 GMT -5
The weather cleared up and it got up to 50 degrees around here today so hubby went out and fired up the cabber long enough to put a little polish on our largest piece of greenstone (8 carats.) Too bad I can't get a decent macro with my cheapo camera. ![](http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah50/tankar11/DSCN08531_zpsejy4btk9.jpg)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 22:37:10 GMT -5
Pretty dang good estimate , we are about 15 miles from Hawkins . Yup , been to Littles Girls Point a whole bunch of times . Really nice beach , changes every time we go . Sometimes lots of rock , other times more sand . Always find enough stuff to bring home and make trip worthwhile . Well , just being up to the lake makes it worth it . We have found a lot of agates there but mostly pretty small . It gets picked awful hard , county park right there and easy access . We did go up the north shore one time chasing waterfalls . Just an overnight trip so not near long enough time to do any picking . Weren't really into rocks to good then . Think it was 6 or 7 years ago . Well, if you're ever up in the U.P. around July or August we'll look for you on the mine piles. We will be driving a bronzefire colored 2015 Ford Fusion. See ya there maybe sometime.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 21:56:11 GMT -5
Sorry it took so long to get back , snowplowing and in-law visiting today . We are about 100 miles , as the crow flies , straight south of Ashland , WI . The UP is only about 125 mi to Ironwood . We take a ton of day trips up there to pick the beaches . Started going up just looking at waterfalls and enjoying the big lake . Of course that meant hauling lots of rocks home . Then came our first tumbler and then another and more . Now have 3 rollers and 3 vibes , plus saws and grinders . Addiction ? Absolutely !!! I am definitely going to do more research on the different things to be found in the Keweenaw though . Its about 5 1/2 hrs for us . Love it up there , first time we went for 4 days and fell in love with the area and pouted all the way home . Been going there every chance we get . So you must live around Hawkins. Must be nice (except in winter.) I think toiv0 is somewhere up that way too. So, you have probably been to Little Girls Point then I would guess? Ever find anything there? Ever go up the north shore by Grand Marais Minnesota? Even though I live in Michigan, I am still 525 miles from Mohawk. A solid 9 hour drive one way and usually comes with a four or five day motel bill so we can only make like one trip a year. Last year we made two trips to the U.P. The first was to Keweenaw and the second was an agate hunting day trip to Muskellunge S.P. just east of Grand Marais Mi. (about 6 1/2 hours away from our house.) At Muskellunge there are biting horseflies as big as hummingbirds so it isn't the most pleasant place at times.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 20:59:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . From what I have read , Mowhawkite should be worked with care because of the arsenic content . wigglinrocks Do you live near the U.P.? I'm a troll from the western part of the lower peninsula. They call people from below the Mackinac Bridge trolls up there.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . From what I have read , Mowhawkite should be worked with care because of the arsenic content . Yep, and after making something with it it should be sealed with something. I found this link suggesting searching pile #4 for Mohawkite and this link which shows a piece of Mohawkite pulled from the Ahmeek mine which shows it is not only found at one mohawk shaft, but other shafts at other nearby mines. This link takes you to an old mines register page that states that a third mohawkite vein was found between the #3 and #2 shafts, so # 3 probably has some as well. This page was written before shafts 4, 5, and 6 were even sunk. Late edit. I found this link stating that mohawkite can be found at Mohawk, Seneca, and Ahmeek mines.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 12:02:28 GMT -5
I always thought Mohawkite came from just one shaft , guess we will have to check those piles more . It was first discovered in the #1 shaft. Then they found two more veins of it in the #2 shaft #2 shaft mohawkite info
From stuff I read at other sites that I haven't found again yet, there is mohawkite found in the other Mohawk shafts as well. As soon as I find that info I will post a link to it.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 23:04:23 GMT -5
Yup , we were at Allouez . Ojibway has some ruins by the pile off the first corner and we did go beyond the gate , found some wire and a few nails with detectors . That mine didn't pan out well for copper so they gave up on it . I highly recommend getting a metal detecting pinpointer if you go to Wolverine . Some of the green nodules sounded off , some didn't . Greenstone , agate , copper agate , could be any of those . Hind sight . The mindat page for Ojibway has some photos of the Datolite, Pumpellyite, and Quartz with green inclusions that has been found there. We want to specifically search for Datolite and Pumpellyite (Greenstone) at that location. From the amount of copper specimen photos on the mindat page from that place, no wonder you couldn't find any there. It's all been collected there instead judging by the amount of stuff in these photos In regards to the Mohawk piles, the #1 piles (2 total) are out behind a storage unit on highway 41. The #2 piles (2 total) are behind the Whitehouse Motel. The #4 pile (1 big pile) is right on 6th street (which turns into Fulton and then turns into Gay/Mohawk) in Mohawk across from the church. I've been on both the #3 and #4 piles. Just a surface scan. Didn't do any digging and never saw anything really interesting either on either of them. I'm sure with some effort that could change.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 22:25:00 GMT -5
I think #2 and 3 Mohawk are private , not sure . #6 I think has no trespassing sign . We were at # 5 I think for a little while but didn't know if we were supposed to be so we didn't stay long . Were told one time that in general , if they aren't gated or signed it is alright to go picking . I don't want to find out the hard way that that is not true . Wish I would have known what to look for all the times we have been up there . Hopefully we get back this year . Lot of people we would like to see again . People that know what we want to know . I picked the #3 pile. Its open with no restrictions. It's right behind a school and they even had a little picnic bench sitting there next to the pile. No signs, no fences, no one ever took any notice that I was there on the pile.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 22:19:28 GMT -5
Wolverine mine is basically a couple blocks behind the place . One of the Wolverine piles was being crushed for road gravel . Found some copper there , but also lots of rock with green nodules in them . Is the Allouez on Bumbletown Rd ? We were at one on that road once , found some chrysicola there . I thought the Gratiot was private . Could be wrong . I'll dig through my info , if I find anything that might be helpful I'll let you know . The green nodules were probably Chlorastrolite (Greenstone). Allouez is off Bumbletown first dirt road to the right past Pine St. as you head out of "town". I think the Gratiot rock pile is open for collecting but one of the Objibway piles has a vehicle gate. There are two piles there with one sitting well off the access road to the right as you come in off 41. That one is open. The second one a little farther down the road and close to it is the gated one. I've seen people park on the exterior side of the gate and walk in to collect. I think the owners are absentee, an energy company in Chicago that doesn't really enforce no trespassing stuff and doesn't even post signs.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 21:17:19 GMT -5
I think the pile close to the road get picked hardest because it is close to the road . Might also have something to do with what depth the different piles were dug from . The C/H pile with bulldozing is where I have had the best luck for copper . Only on the other pile one time though . That was the first time we were up there . My GF was up by the #3 pile , she was just exploring , but didn't really get right to that pile . I think they have scraped the C/H pile every year we have been there . Never been there for mineral week , before and after , but I think one would see a lot of diggings . Lots of fresh material without a lot of digging . As for the south mine , never over there either . We didn't know if it was private or not. We were up on top of the cliff at #4 one time . Really cool up there , walked up the small pile and its quite a view . Look right down at top of the old stack . We detected the big pile a little but the weather got really nasty , was like we were in the clouds . Probably haven't helped you much , we didn't yet get hit with the rock addiction when we were at Cliff mine . Want to get back there but each time we go up , there is always a few new mines we have to check out . Next time you go up there , stop at Prospectors Paradise . The owner is very helpful and if there is a girl working there , talk to her . She can probably point you in the right direction . Next time we go we have a much better idea of what to look for and where . Good luck and happy hunting Yep. Been to Prospectors Paradise. We stayed at the Whitehouse Motel in Mohawk and that was like 5 miles down the road on 41. I think the pile by the road at the Cliff Mine is the oldest one there so it probably has some different material than the newer piles. I'm thinking maybe more datolite is found there. We have plans on also hounding the Iroquois, Gratiot, and Ojibway rock piles to the north of Mohawk, and the Wolverine and Allouez piles to the south. We usually stay 4 or 5 days in a central location and search in various directions from our base. One other place we want to see is Clark Mine near Copper Harbor. Right out behind our motel in Mohawk is the Mohawk #2 poor rock piles. I'm going to ask the motel owner if he knows if we can do those piles too. Mohawkite was found in all the Mohawk shafts. It was originally found in the #1 shaft which is just east of the #2 piles. Someone on this forum told me the mohawk claim with the mohawkite is privately owned. For that to be true he would need to own 9 total piles. The #1 piles are out behind a storage place that is for sale on 41. #3 piles are across the street from a school. The #4 piles are across from Bethany Lutheran Church. #5 is at Stanton and Ballman St. and #6 is near the intersection of #5 and #6 roads. I can see no private property signs or no trespassing signs. I will clear this up when I go back there this summer. ![](http://coppercountryexplorer.com/wp-content/uploads/map.jpg)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 19:29:02 GMT -5
At Cliff mine , the right pile usually is scraped off at mineral week for fresh material . I think the diggings on the other piles are old digs that get freshened up from time to time . I like looking for copper on the side slopes where the dozer pushed material over the edge . Probably a lot of other good things to be found also . The right pile I am assuming is the one labeled C&H Waste Pile? That pile is actually a front lower level and a rear higher level connected. I saw where the pile was bulldozed but it was only the front lower level. I actually also found some native copper, prehnite, and calcite in the plowed area myself. Inspection on the rear higher level showed no trace of bulldozing or digging. The left pile out by Cliff Road is the one with collector dig spots all over the top. Is there something there in that left pile people dig a lot for? Strangely, on the right pile there was only evidence of the bulldozing, but no collector pits. Also, I read somewhere that the South Cliff mine pile was buried and is no longer there. I never really even looked for it when I was there because I was unaware it existed. It there still a South Cliff pile? I also was wondering how hard it is to scale the #3 pile up the cliff face? Have you ever done that there? ![](http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah50/tankar11/cliffruinmap_zpsptbqvvpv.jpg?1482538636183)
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 23, 2016 18:58:42 GMT -5
A general rule of thumb is if it is easy, it has already been found. It's easy to dig through the top foot, or so of a tailings pile. Therefore you have to dig deeper than that. Look for the most remote, difficult to access part of the tailings pile, and dig there. Trees and roots deter many diggers, so many good finds are found in the root mat of trees. Most dirty dug rocks get overlooked. You need a water bucket, or spray bottle, or go digging in the rain. I have found many nice samples in picked over areas using these general principles. Dig where it is tough. Darryl. Sounds like do-able advice. Up there at the Cliff mine, you have a lot of tailings to choose from. It's also plain to see where people dig and where they don't dig. Is there something they know about the places they don't dig at and a reason only basically one pile there has any evidence of people digging? I went up on top of three piles and only one had been dug at. Turns out that the pile with all the dig spots was the one closest to the road but other than that I don't know why the other piles looked un-dug.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
ID
Dec 22, 2016 22:43:05 GMT -5
Post by ziggy on Dec 22, 2016 22:43:05 GMT -5
ziggy I highly recommend the paleo pick. Recently dug up a large (80#ish) Jasper in a couple minutes using this tool. www.estwing.com/g_geo_paleo_pick.phpBest price I found was at Amazon.com and free shipping with prime! Yoweee ![(whoa)](//storage.proboards.com/1258779/images/0pZEgprvENPYSBkFgsso.gif) That thing is BIG. He was drooling looking at it though. TBH, it's a little pricey for us too. Maybe some day. We were looking more along the lines of an 11" one for $17.20 on ebay..... We already have a chisel edge one but we are getting the pointed style this time. We are on a fixed income and are lucky when we can spend that much. I know, what are we doing messing around with this hobby that costs so much? There is nothing better to do here in Michigan and we build everything we can.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
ID
Dec 22, 2016 22:16:58 GMT -5
Post by ziggy on Dec 22, 2016 22:16:58 GMT -5
The stuff (Jaspillite) in your picture looks a lot more fractured than the Ishpeming stuff anyway so hey, I got lucky there I guess when I threw in that mention of Diamond Hill Vermont. You having a bag of quartz from there makes it the most likely place it's from. The mindat page page for Diamond Hill Mine lists Jaspillite and Quartz as the two minerals found there. Ziggy do you guys hound the Michigan jaspelite? I'd love to score some. spiceman merry Christmas to you and yours. Hello to your father too! We are going back to jasper hill in july or august. Last time we went there we couldn't find the way up. Hubby has since rectified that problem by positively identifying where to park and how to get up the hill via info found on the internet. If we can get some for you while we're there we will. Hubby is buying a brand new rock pick for the occasion. Now if only we both live 'till then (we're getting old.) With our kind of luck, someone will make collecting off limits there before we can do it. Nice new name you got there...I think ![]()
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
ID
Dec 22, 2016 21:28:47 GMT -5
Post by ziggy on Dec 22, 2016 21:28:47 GMT -5
Thank you, Diamond hill is a good guess. I have a bag labeled white Quartz from diamond hill. So that is a good guess. Thank you again Dale The stuff (Jaspillite) in your picture looks a lot more fractured than the Ishpeming stuff anyway so hey, I got lucky there I guess when I threw in that mention of Diamond Hill Vermont. You having a bag of quartz from there makes it the most likely place it's from. The mindat page page for Diamond Hill Mine lists Jaspillite and Quartz as the two minerals found there.
|
|