notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 13, 2017 11:42:36 GMT -5
Thank you for your advice. In the future, for the initial 220 grit run, I will make sure to check the action more frequently than three times per day. If (when?) this happens again, I will try your solution first before going through all the disassembly and cleaning. I will also try to take some pictures to share (geee... after all the fun I just went through learning how to post pictures... and I forgot to take any! Oh well... 'Heat of the moment forgetfulness... I will work on that too! Lol!) I'm assuming since your getting that thick a slurry with 220 your doing all stages in the vibe?
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 13, 2017 11:16:28 GMT -5
Sooo... Just add water? Should I pry the rocks and mud off the sides of the drum and mix it with the pooled water below to help it along? if they are stuck that securely in a uv-10 you definetly are not running enough water. and yes pull off sides so it will mix in. add water slowly and let it run for a few min. don't add huge amounts unless your basically washing b4 switching grits.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 13, 2017 11:14:04 GMT -5
I edited it out first thing this morning. I was only on briefly last night after getting called in 6 hours early yesterday and working a 14 hour day. Ouch! Now THAT'S a long day! yeah but it makes that greedy woman I live with eyes light up on payday lol
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 13, 2017 8:36:27 GMT -5
Well... 1.5 days into my first use of a vibe and I added too much water. The action slowed to a crawl and then froze to a stop with clumps of muddy rocks sticking to the sides of the UV-10. Water was pooled at the bottom of the barrel - which was visible because the rocks stayed glued to the sides. I turned off the power and thought "This is not good"(... duh!). I ended up separating the rocks from the almost dry concrete like mud (soapy water works well for that) and then did the same for the almost 2 lbs of ceramic pellets. I placed the ceramics into a colander to drain, and put the rocks into a bath of soapy water. I also washed out the UV-10 barrel and lid, and dumped the waste water into the bushes (I noted a lot of unused 220 grit at the bottom of the wash bucket but decided to feed that also to the bushes... what a waste... Oh well...). It is past midnight here in California and the neighbors are lite sleepers. So... I will let the rocks bathe and the ceramics drain until I get up from my beauty sleep. Question-1: Was my recovery solution correct, or is there an easier fix for too much water in the vibe (like throwing in a paper towel or dry sponge)? Question-2: Why were the rocks still covered so heavily in the mud? (That is the reason I was adding more water in the first place - Yes... there was good cyclonic action going on, but it was slow, and the rocks were heavily covered in slurry.) Question-3: Do the rocks and ceramics need to be dry before I start another 220 grit vibe, or can I add them still wet, start the unit, and then sprinkle the grit over the top? As I think about it some more... Was my problem too much water - or - was the load close to binding up from NOT ENOUGH water and chose that moment to freeze motion; The water I sprayed in just bouncing off the thick mud and rocks stuck to the sides, and then pooling to the bottom... Too much thinking! Not enough sleeping! Tomorrow is another day of FUN! Good night All! next time add water and wait to see if action comes back after a few minutes. to much water shouldn't slow it down to much(unless its a huge amount). I put a huge amount of water, like 2 or 3 cups, and a squirt of dawn and run for a few minutes when I do a cleanout. which greatly reduces the amount of action. to thin out and help clean the slurry off without being so aggressive it chips or bruises the stones. they make a flat strainer for the uv-10 that you put your rough in barrel fill with water. hold strainer over opening flip drain off excess then just screw your bowl on start up and add grit. so your rough should not be dry when loading.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 13, 2017 7:44:56 GMT -5
I edited it out first thing this morning. I was only on briefly last night after getting called in 6 hours early yesterday and working a 14 hour day.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 12, 2017 23:05:08 GMT -5
Hi Tommy, You done good.. My gf is helping me get paypal figured out. She just joined yesterday because I have been sending cash instead of getting setting set up on pay pal. BYW She has owns 40 acres by the petrified forest in Az. Never been prospected and she get decent stuff off it. I know the world is awash but I cant wait to check it out. She is also rock crazy, has 3 shipping containers with lots of rocks, not petrified. her dads stuff etc. Also she and her 3 grandsons pick stuff north of Joseph City. The got a log cornered but only have 5 feet exposed and its about 12 diameter. You know anyone in the Holbrook area in the group that has n interest in such. You can pm her if you like, She a real sweetie and a cutie to boot. Hope this info is what you need. Feeling my way along on this. Virgin here but death on real estate and growing shrubs, flowers etc. grin. If the other party doesn't want the other obsidian I'll take it and add to my pile. Not a knapper..but am a napper if given the chance.. grin.. Thanks again, Cliff ill def take it thanks cliff and tommy.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 11, 2017 23:26:22 GMT -5
I did my barrel flipping this morning and found it interesting that they sounded very different from each other. different as in? btw sorry about hijacking your thread.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 11, 2017 23:23:07 GMT -5
I thought about screening out the really fine stuff. but just said the heck with it. it will just help make slurry faster lol. I'm scooping right out of pail about 1 cup for 10 lbs rock and dumping it in. probably to much cause at the end of a week there is still a lot not broken down. I stand my barrel up for a few minutes let the slurry settle pour off half the watery slurry. then dump my rocks into a colander with a bowl below it shake the colander a few times to knock some more grit filled slurry off. this goes back in next batch. then I rinse the rocks off in colander. I know I'm losing a lot here and bet if I built a simple cleanout sink with a couple 5 gal settling tanks ide find I'm losing a ton of unspent grit. I just haven't set anything up yet. there will still be chunks in there after a week that wont fall through a kitchen colander. I pull all my stones down to about 1/2 inch the small stones and chunks of grit to big to go through colander go back into the next batch.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 11, 2017 22:14:07 GMT -5
weight in barrel will vary depending on size of rough large chunks will weigh less than smalls as there will be large spaces between the stones. best tumbling is a mix of large and smalls. just fill a good mix of sizes to 3/4 full add water to level of rocks. most tumblers sell grit refill packs and usually recommend more than what is needed.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 11, 2017 9:01:47 GMT -5
the unscreened sic is just that crushed and unscreened. some chunks are much larger than 30 grit some much smaller. think of it like this take a boulder and crush it your gonna end up with big chunks med chunks small chunks super small right down to dust. now set up a series of screens oversize, usually oversized would be sent back through the crusher or say to a smaller crusher if your goal is more smaller sized rocks. say 4 inch holes in screen. next is 2 inch holes then 1 inch on down in size to basically dust. the size of actual grain in that boulder isn't what your sorting its the size of the nugget. put sic under microscope and lets just use random numbers say a sic 30 fits through a certain size hole in a screen and has 100 grains. now lets say 500 grit is a much smaller nugget only containing 10 grains. get what I'm saying? whats more interesting is the big chunks are still there after a week of grinding there are still chunks wayyy bigger than 30 grit still cutting. think time release like your doing with your broken up grinding wheels. now heres where It gets trippy and this is all theoretical at this point. don't sort it out and you have fine stuff in there that is taking the deep scratches out while it wont polish because the whole time your getting big scratches from the bigger stuff. your getting a big scratch plus a bunch of little ones. is it cutting faster or slower? is it going to be rougher or smoother? the only way to tell is to do head to head experiments. looking in bucket as is swept and shoveled right up off the floor. I just grabbed a handful and let my fingers sort out some of the bigger stuff. pm me your addy james and ill just send you 10 lbs or so to try. you like experimenting so you can try a head to head.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 11, 2017 7:03:59 GMT -5
I no longer stock 220-500-1000 notjustone . Gave it all away. Just SiC 30, AO 80 and AO 14,000. Best part is saving time and hassle in 220-500-1000 clean outs. Roll 6 barrels at times. Allows skipping 12 clean outs. Not going back to all those clean outs. Still have a 10 pound box of SiC 500, it's yours if you want it. I'm getting just as good results with the unscreened in the homemade rotary, ao-80, to ao polish in the vibe as I did with the 4 step process (actually 5 cause I was running sic30, then into the 2 hf units using the grit stages I bought as a kit. 60/90, 150/220, 500, ao polish). the only difference is I'm not running all mohs 7 stuff. the hardest stuff comes out great. 85 to 90 percent of the load on average comes out of polish looking finished. the other 10 to 15 percent Ive been setting aside till I get enough to fill my ar-12 barrel. mostly slag glass which I found polishes better in the rotary than the vibe, but unfortunately is about the only thing I find locally which is even hard enough to take a polish. thanks for the offer james but I don't really need the sic 500. like you I'm cutting out the excessive cleanouts. I'm not sure if my unscreened sic is cutting faster or not than the 30 grit (never loaded a barrel with each with new rough to do a head to head compairison). but its free grit and seems to be working well. when I went from the sic 30ish stuff to the unscreened I also went to the vibe and using more broken rough and doing less rounding and more just passing it through when the edges were knocked off and pit free for a different look. at the same time I added 2 more coarse barrels and am pulling 10 lbs out of coarse a week compared to the 3lbs I was sending through to the small rotaries. I changed to many variables at once to get a good comparison.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 23:33:29 GMT -5
ps since they are already rounded and pit free you can skip the first step as course is your shaping stage. if it were me ide start right out and rerun stage 3 and 4.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 23:07:24 GMT -5
I'm in for 30
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 23:03:30 GMT -5
I don't think the ao-80 is a time saver as much as cutting out the need to stock an extra grit.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 22:51:33 GMT -5
I have switched to a vibe for polishing and don't miss the plastics. don't use ceramics either. I use lots of smalls to make up the 75 percent. plastics or ceramics are wasted space in the barrel as far as I'm concerned.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 22:46:35 GMT -5
Thanks, notjustone. Barrel is 1lb. To start it was 3/4 full, then 50% for the next two rounds and for the final I added plastic buffers to bring it up to 50%. Ran each stage about 1 week. Coarse stage was 8 days. As for washing - first time around 'no' but corrected that mistake for both barrel and rocks for the batch in the photo. Yes, I have a separate barrel for the polish stage. I ran plastics in my last 2 stages but don't move them along with rocks. when you clean out stage 3 prepoilish . take them plastics out and label them for use in stage 3 next time. then use new plastics in stage 4 and label them accordingly. I would shoot for 75 percent full with plastics. using less causes rocks to fall and bruise.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 10, 2017 22:21:06 GMT -5
how big is the barrel? does it have a capacity in pounds? are you filling the barrel about 75 percent full with rocks? I have found the more smalls you have in the batch the better it works. how long are you running each stage? not having a dedicated polish barrel they should still come out shinier than that. are you washing all the previous grit off the stones and the barrel b4 moving to next step.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 9, 2017 22:37:46 GMT -5
So ... with all the talk about another polish method I have decided to run Dual Barrels using the same type of rocks and using the 2 different polish methods. I am using a Lortone QT66 dual six pound tumbler. Loaded each barrel equally with the same type of rocks, mostly Quartz along with some glass, chert and flint. These rocks have already completed Stage 1 rounding and are ready to head on to the polish stage. One barrel will go for the Normal 3 remaining steps of polish rolling for a week in each, 120 - 600 - Cerum Oxide polish. The other barrel will spin with Aluminum Oxide AO80 for 10 days then a week of CO polish. This was started 2 days ago on Sunday. I had a friend here when I was getting all this going and he was distracting me quite a bit. Normally I would run a cleaning stage after Stage 1 to make sure no Course Grit could contaminate the experiment, but I was distracted by my friend, plus he was pushing me to be in a hurry, and I forgot to wash the stones, but I will continue the experiment as planned and thoroughly wash the stones before the next stages. why not run the ao 80 for the same 14 days as your 120 and 600 stage? you know apples to apples to see if ao-80 breaks down to the same prepolish.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 8, 2017 22:34:53 GMT -5
I'm no expert in this field, but I have had to find some used motors for various used machines I have purchased. I don't think that variable speed motors are preferred for most equipment. I went to the local appliance store and asked about washer and dryer motors. The guy told me that they would not remove them from old appliances and that it was illegal (or maybe a lawsuit risk) for them to sell me used motors. He did tell me that I could rummage through old washers and dryers setting outside and remove them myself. He then went on to say that the motors in appliances do not have housing around them. They're just open. At that point, I decided to take his word for that and not bother. I've also read here that some people have good luck buying motors from scrap metal places. I haven't tried that one. I bought one from a heating/cooling plumber. That one was removed from a furnace and works great for me. He hasn't gotten me any since and all the other plumbers were unwilling to collect them for me. I tried our Habitat for Humanity Restore and was told that motors came in rarely and were in demand so they don't last long. Basically, it's very difficult for me to find used motors where I live. Other people seem to find them for $5-$10 easily. my woody tumbler uses an open dryer motor right now till I find something different.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 8, 2017 12:08:10 GMT -5
Graded grits for coarse is useless. That was kinda a blanket statement. I think that a better version might be - paying extra for graded grit for the coarse stage is kinda silly. Kingsley had (graded) 80 grit on sale awhile back. Cheaper than the 60/90. So I bought the 80. Works just fine and not a noticeable difference from the 60/90. Bottom line (my opinion) is that for the coarse run, use what you can get cheapest. my bad when I said ungraded I should have said unscreened. I posted a pic of it in this thread. no time to go to photobucket and upload it again right now. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/78116/days-coarse-grind-opening-barrel
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