jimgsmith
starting to shine!
Member since September 2022
Posts: 37
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Post by jimgsmith on Nov 23, 2022 9:22:32 GMT -5
Probably a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway. Does the polish stage, or any stage for that matter, leave polish on the rocks? I don't mean the grime that is worked off during burnishing, but the actual polish itself. I have assumed that each stage of tumbling essentially removes the scratches from the previous step, leaving smaller and smaller scratches until they are so small we see a shine. But is the polish also designed to leave a film or coat on the rock to help with the shine or is the end result all rock?
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electrocutus
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2020
Posts: 331
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Post by electrocutus on Nov 23, 2022 10:42:11 GMT -5
It's a question I've asked myself too... could still be a dumb question since I tend to ask dumb questions all the time :-)
I think that even if you run through a soap/borax burnish stage, there will always be a chance for some polish to remain in some cracks, if the size/diameter of the polish particles is smaller than the cracks. Even when a rock looks super shiny, there are still cracks and pits in it when you look at it with a strong enough magnifier glass.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 23, 2022 11:02:03 GMT -5
As far as I know all tumbling polish is just a super fine abrasive that leaves no residue. For lapidary and metal polishing there are rouge and other polishes that have a waxy part that coats the piece, but I suspect that something like that would not work well in a tumbler.
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,979
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Post by victor1941 on Nov 24, 2022 16:42:15 GMT -5
Jimgsmith, I add liquid dishwashing soap before each rinse and this helps remove any residue. You should check each stage when dry and repeat if deep scratches remain. My tumbles are normally cabs or tumbled side or end cuts and clean very well except any cracks or pits. I am a vibe tumbler.
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Nov 24, 2022 16:50:25 GMT -5
Probably a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway. Does the polish stage, or any stage for that matter, leave polish on the rocks? I don't mean the grime that is worked off during burnishing, but the actual polish itself. I have assumed that each stage of tumbling essentially removes the scratches from the previous step, leaving smaller and smaller scratches until they are so small we see a shine. But is the polish also designed to leave a film or coat on the rock to help with the shine or is the end result all rock? I think the overall answer might be "it depends". At least it is for me because it depends on what material I'm polishing. I do the last three stages in my vibe, and I've noticed my dark rocks that are slightly softer such as granite, look grayish after polish. And I've stopped running my agates through polish because the cost is higher than the benefit there- white polish in alllllll the tiny cracks, is there are any. Fortunately, the agates have mirror shine after three days in AO500. And this is after a burnish in between stages, a good scrub, and an hour in a ultrasonic cleaner. So, polish is definitely a problem for me sometimes.
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Post by pauls on Nov 28, 2022 1:55:26 GMT -5
No, polish should be just the rock, you start with coarse grit which leaves deep dings and scratches, which diffuse the light so your rock looks cloudy, gradually getting finer and finer until the surface imperfections become too small to diffuse the light and it looks polished. There was a theory put about by a bloke called Beilby who reckoned that polishing caused the surface atoms to migrate and create an absolutely smooth surface, people are still arguing over if that is an actual thing or not. Look up Beilby flow.
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lapidarycentral
starting to spend too much on rocks
(Brian Rhode) LapidaryCentral.com - Fueling your Lapidary Addiction.
Member since August 2021
Posts: 209
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Post by lapidarycentral on Nov 30, 2022 13:31:25 GMT -5
Any regular lapidary polishing compound should not be leaving any residue behind after being washed.
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Dec 1, 2022 9:19:06 GMT -5
I never let my rocks dry between stages.
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Post by Bob on Dec 3, 2022 14:34:02 GMT -5
The end result in my opinion is as you say "all rock".
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,802
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Post by gemfeller on Dec 3, 2022 16:55:30 GMT -5
No, polish should be just the rock, you start with coarse grit which leaves deep dings and scratches, which diffuse the light so your rock looks cloudy, gradually getting finer and finer until the surface imperfections become too small to diffuse the light and it looks polished. There was a theory put about by a bloke called Beilby who reckoned that polishing caused the surface atoms to migrate and create an absolutely smooth surface, people are still arguing over if that is an actual thing or not. Look up Beilby flow. The matter of what actually creates a polish on stone is an intriguing question that so far as I can tell has not been adequately answered. Beilby flow is supposedly caused by heat intense enough to cause the effect you describe. I can see how that possibly might happen in polishing a cab, where heat is definitely a factor. But in tumbling? It's essentially a cold process. A study on glass by Sandia Corp. published sometime back argued in favor of the scratch-removal process. But whether stones of various kinds respond the same as glass is an open question in my mind.
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Post by Bob on Dec 7, 2022 14:47:55 GMT -5
That issue about polish fascinates me. It seems like the number of different approaches we could try just goes on and on. I have wondered about mixing up a polish slurry, then soaking sawdust in it until it will soak up no more. Then test this sawdust to see what happens. I would speculate that the sawdust would carry it all over the load while also providing some cushioning. This is on my "try someday" list with dozens of other probably crazy ideas.
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 7, 2022 15:52:06 GMT -5
That issue about polish fascinates me. It seems like the number of different approaches we could try just goes on and on. I have wondered about mixing up a polish slurry, then soaking sawdust in it until it will soak up no more. Then test this sawdust to see what happens. I would speculate that the sawdust would carry it all over the load while also providing some cushioning. This is on my "try someday" list with dozens of other probably crazy ideas. An old Rockhound/lapidary sold me some ultra-thin tumbled slabs, less than 1/16" and probably 4 to 5 inches across. I was astounded that he managed to tumble them and asked about his secret. He said he used Cedar Chips that he bought at the pet store for bedding. According to him the oil from the chips helped with the tumbling. Never asked him before he passed away but I would assume he used them in all stages and how what the chip to thin slab ratio was. I bought all he had and there were some that broke, maybe 15 to 20%. Have been afraid to put them out at a show as they could be easily broken by careless customers.
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Post by Bob on Dec 7, 2022 15:59:01 GMT -5
That issue about polish fascinates me. It seems like the number of different approaches we could try just goes on and on. I have wondered about mixing up a polish slurry, then soaking sawdust in it until it will soak up no more. Then test this sawdust to see what happens. I would speculate that the sawdust would carry it all over the load while also providing some cushioning. This is on my "try someday" list with dozens of other probably crazy ideas. An old Rockhound/lapidary sold me some ultra-thin tumbled slabs, less than 1/16" and probably 4 to 5 inches across. I was astounded that he managed to tumble them and asked about his secret. He said he used Cedar Chips that he bought at the pet store for bedding. According to him the oil from the chips helped with the tumbling. Never asked him before he passed away but I would assume he used them in all stages and how what the chip to thin slab ratio was. I bought all he had and there were some that broke, maybe 15 to 20%. Have been afraid to put them out at a show as they could be easily broken by careless customers. Wow that's thin! Do you think he did it all dry, no water?
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