EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 4, 2023 10:48:27 GMT -5
Hi, Does anyone know if I can use different sized bowls on vibratory tumblers? I recently acquired an Adjusta-Vibe 40 for an offensively cheap price that I had to jump on since I've been dreaming of tumbling for years. Now that I have it in hand, I am concerned the bowl might just be too big for the amount of tumbling I intend to do. Does anyone know if I can swap the 17in stock bowl out for a smaller one, say a UV-10 or UV-18 bowl, without damaging the machine (I understand modifications to the bowl may be necessary)? Also, how bad is it to run a vibe tumbler with low volume of rocks & media if a smaller bowl won't work? Most of the rocks I collect are already river-tumbled to a rounded shape, so I think I can try skipping the coarsest steps on those. If you can't tell, I'm pretty new to this and have jumped in head-first. Any & all advice (tips, techniques, warnings, modifications, etc.) on the matter is welcome. Thank you ahead of time.
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jimmie
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 233
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Post by jimmie on Oct 5, 2023 6:00:02 GMT -5
You can give it a try. I’m pretty sure running a bowl low on rocks prematurely wears the bowl out. You can use smaller gravel as filler, just using a lot of polish to get a few rocks done. Give it a whirl, you never know till you try!
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dshanpnw
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since December 2020
Posts: 907
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Post by dshanpnw on Oct 5, 2023 9:12:07 GMT -5
40 pound bowl is pretty big. I watched their video for the 75 pounder. Would a smaller bowl even fit on it? A smaller bowl, UV-10 or 18 looks like it might fit and might work. If I was going to use the Adjusta-vibe 40, I would keep it as is and use media, ceramics or pea gravel, to get it 3/4 full. I wouldn't run it without it being 3/4 full.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 5, 2023 10:16:47 GMT -5
You can give it a try. I’m pretty sure running a bowl low on rocks prematurely wears the bowl out. You can use smaller gravel as filler, just using a lot of polish to get a few rocks done. Give it a whirl, you never know till you try! After looking around that seems to be the consensus. Looks like I'll be grabbing a bucket of gravel as filler.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 5, 2023 10:33:51 GMT -5
40 pound bowl is pretty big. I watched their video for the 75 pounder. Would a smaller bowl even fit on it? A smaller bowl, UV-10 or 18 looks like it might fit and might work. If I was going to use the Adjusta-vibe 40, I would keep it as is and use media, ceramics or pea gravel, to get it 3/4 full. I wouldn't run it without it being 3/4 full. It is indeed a large bowl. Larger than I expected once I had it in person. The shaft diameter is probably larger than the shafts used on smaller bowls, but I think I could drill the hole out to a larger size to match the larger shaft, plus some silicone and/or rubber to aid in sealing it. If there isn't enough material in the center of a smaller bowl, I am thinking of casting JB weld around the center of the bowl, and then re-drilling a hole. From what I've seen, JB weld seems to be the preferred material to seal the drain ports on these tumblers, and is tough enough to drill once cured. I'm going to collect a bucket of gravel from my usual collecting spots as filler, as well as buying some ceramics.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 240
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Post by RockyBeach on Oct 5, 2023 20:05:43 GMT -5
... Most of the rocks I collect are already river-tumbled to a rounded shape, so I think I can try skipping the coarsest steps on those. ... I see that the bowl size question has been addressed .... so on to your next question.... From what I have read and heard from my seat in the newbie section .... tumbling beach / river rocks, even if they are already water rounded, is advised to get the patina off of them. Worth a try to skip right to stage two ... let us know how it goes. Can always back track and start over if needed. BTW... to the forum !
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,609
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Post by dillonf on Oct 5, 2023 20:50:47 GMT -5
Welcome! And, congrats on the good deal!
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 5, 2023 22:09:56 GMT -5
I would think that the only problem would be going up in bowl size for a machine designed for a smaller bowl as this would put more strain on the springs and motor. Therefore, I would mot expect any problems going down in bowl size as this would be less weight on the motor and springs.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 6, 2023 15:56:47 GMT -5
I would think that the only problem would be going up in bowl size for a machine designed for a smaller bowl as this would put more strain on the springs and motor. Therefore, I would mot expect any problems going down in bowl size as this would be less weight on the motor and springs. I'm more concerned with the movement within the bowl at the smaller size, and if the bowl will fit. I need a second bowl to avoid lodging grit in the walls. Or I may try to line the inside of the bowl with a material more resistant to grit-lodging. I'm thinking about using a pourable or sprayable material to line it -- plastidip, flex seal, truck bed liner from a spray can, questionable application of JB weld on the entire inside, etc., or even just casting a new one.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 6, 2023 16:02:31 GMT -5
From what I have read and heard from my seat in the newbie section .... tumbling beach / river rocks, even if they are already water rounded, is advised to get the patina off of them. Worth a try to skip right to stage two ... let us know how it goes. Can always back track and start over if needed. BTW... to the forum ! I do plan on running them in a low-ish grit to get the grime off of them. I get a lot of my rocks from banks along the Mississippi River which is horribly polluted. Do you have any ideas on what I could line the bowl with to avoid lodging grit in the walls? I'm not sure which ones are better than the plastic the bowl is made of. I hope someone reading this runs an experiment by coating rocks in materials such as JB weld, Flexane, truck bed liner, etc., then checking them after the first stage. By coating the rocks, it avoids potentially ruining a bowl/drum.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 6, 2023 16:05:24 GMT -5
Welcome! And, congrats on the good deal! Thanks and thanks! Turns out the box was beaten, but the machine was never used!
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 7, 2023 2:19:27 GMT -5
I would think that the only problem would be going up in bowl size for a machine designed for a smaller bowl as this would put more strain on the springs and motor. Therefore, I would mot expect any problems going down in bowl size as this would be less weight on the motor and springs. I'm more concerned with the movement within the bowl at the smaller size, and if the bowl will fit. I need a second bowl to avoid lodging grit in the walls. Or I may try to line the inside of the bowl with a material more resistant to grit-lodging. I'm thinking about using a pourable or sprayable material to line it -- plastidip, flex seal, truck bed liner from a spray can, questionable application of JB weld on the entire inside, etc., or even just casting a new one. I tried lining a bowl with Flex Seal. The rocks tore it up immediately and I had little bits of black rubber everywhere.
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 7, 2023 3:55:29 GMT -5
I would think that the only problem would be going up in bowl size for a machine designed for a smaller bowl as this would put more strain on the springs and motor. Therefore, I would mot expect any problems going down in bowl size as this would be less weight on the motor and springs. I'm more concerned with the movement within the bowl at the smaller size, and if the bowl will fit. I need a second bowl to avoid lodging grit in the walls. Or I may try to line the inside of the bowl with a material more resistant to grit-lodging. I'm thinking about using a pourable or sprayable material to line it -- plastidip, flex seal, truck bed liner from a spray can, questionable application of JB weld on the entire inside, etc., or even just casting a new one. Grit lodging in tumbling vibe bowls or rotary barrels is not a problem I ever been concerned with. For me it's a good rinse and on to the next stage in the same barrel. The only times I use a soap run is when transitioning from the last SiC stage, to a AlO stage, and to burnish after the Polish stage. I even have doubts about the effectiveness of the soap runs. Removing any trapped polish during the after-polish burnishing seems to be valid reason for doing that. I do not have dedicated barrels for different stages. There is nothing wrong with having extra the barrels or bowls to keep stages segregated, just not necessary in my opinion. As James mentioned, you can probably use a smaller bowl on a base built for a larger bowl, just beware that the action may be too rough, not enough weight to dampen the vibration action. One way to find out. Good luck
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 7, 2023 16:24:39 GMT -5
I'm more concerned with the movement within the bowl at the smaller size, and if the bowl will fit. I need a second bowl to avoid lodging grit in the walls. Or I may try to line the inside of the bowl with a material more resistant to grit-lodging. I'm thinking about using a pourable or sprayable material to line it -- plastidip, flex seal, truck bed liner from a spray can, questionable application of JB weld on the entire inside, etc., or even just casting a new one. Grit lodging in tumbling vibe bowls or rotary barrels is not a problem I ever been concerned with. For me it's a good rinse and on to the next stage in the same barrel. The only times I use a soap run is when transitioning from the last SiC stage, to a AlO stage, and to burnish after the Polish stage. I even have doubts about the effectiveness of the soap runs. Removing any trapped polish during the after-polish burnishing seems to be valid reason for doing that. I do not have dedicated barrels for different stages. There is nothing wrong with having extra the barrels or bowls to keep stages segregated, just not necessary in my opinion. As James mentioned, you can probably use a smaller bowl on a base built for a larger bowl, just beware that the action may be too rough, not enough weight to dampen the vibration action. One way to find out. Good luck What is the coarsest grit you've used in a vibratory tumbler, and in which brand's bowl? I am concerned about the movement within the bowl if I attach a smaller bowl. Being an adjusta-vibe, I may be able to tune the vibration down to work. I did just get a blasphemous idea -- the bowl on this vibe is large enough that it might barely fit small drums from a rotary tumbler in the stock bowl of the AV-40. If by some magic that works, I could run 3-4 stages at once! I will update this post if I ever try it.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 7, 2023 16:27:10 GMT -5
I'm more concerned with the movement within the bowl at the smaller size, and if the bowl will fit. I need a second bowl to avoid lodging grit in the walls. Or I may try to line the inside of the bowl with a material more resistant to grit-lodging. I'm thinking about using a pourable or sprayable material to line it -- plastidip, flex seal, truck bed liner from a spray can, questionable application of JB weld on the entire inside, etc., or even just casting a new one. I tried lining a bowl with Flex Seal. The rocks tore it up immediately and I had little bits of black rubber everywhere. Thank you for the information! I know silicone is out of the question unless I get an extremely tough & high durometer mix, and even then it may develop micro-tears that may hold grit.
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brybry
Cave Dweller
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Member since October 2021
Posts: 1,208
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Post by brybry on Oct 7, 2023 18:10:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry so much about the bowl holding grit. The rocks would be more apt to carry the grit over than the bowl would.
If you decide to try a smaller bowl, I wouldn't go more than half size it came with. If you're vibe came with a 40 pounder, don't go below an 18 pounder. Even the 18 will hold 20 or more pounds and they wouldn't rattle themselves into bruises and cracks like putting a 10 pounder on would.
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 8, 2023 5:23:10 GMT -5
I tried lining a bowl with Flex Seal. The rocks tore it up immediately and I had little bits of black rubber everywhere. Thank you for the information! I know silicone is out of the question unless I get an extremely tough & high durometer mix, and even then it may develop micro-tears that may hold grit. I just bought a couple of rubes of Goop, in caulking tubes. Much cheaper that way. If you are not familiar with the stuff, it is like the super glue of silicone. It was originally developed to resole running shoes.
I have used it to seal cracks in my tumbling barrels. Holds up great. I have been thinking of researching a solvent for it that I can thin the stuff out to more of a liquid consistency so I can swish it around in barrels for a nice, even coating.
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EphemeralMoose
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by EphemeralMoose on Oct 8, 2023 8:45:46 GMT -5
Thank you for the information! I know silicone is out of the question unless I get an extremely tough & high durometer mix, and even then it may develop micro-tears that may hold grit. I just bought a couple of rubes of Goop, in caulking tubes. Much cheaper that way. If you are not familiar with the stuff, it is like the super glue of silicone. It was originally developed to resole running shoes.
I have used it to seal cracks in my tumbling barrels. Holds up great. I have been thinking of researching a solvent for it that I can thin the stuff out to more of a liquid consistency so I can swish it around in barrels for a nice, even coating. The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for one type of Goop says the main ingredients to be disclosed are Tetrachloroethylene (as a solvent) & 1,3-butadiene polymer styrene (as the solute). Most different types of GOOP all use the same or similar solute, and different solvents of varying danger such as toluene (quite nasty stuff, don't mess with it). Acetone will likely work to thin it down, though it may take some effort to start dissolving.
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 9, 2023 2:08:37 GMT -5
I just bought a couple of rubes of Goop, in caulking tubes. Much cheaper that way. If you are not familiar with the stuff, it is like the super glue of silicone. It was originally developed to resole running shoes.
I have used it to seal cracks in my tumbling barrels. Holds up great. I have been thinking of researching a solvent for it that I can thin the stuff out to more of a liquid consistency so I can swish it around in barrels for a nice, even coating. The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for one type of Goop says the main ingredients to be disclosed are Tetrachloroethylene (as a solvent) & 1,3-butadiene polymer styrene (as the solute). Most different types of GOOP all use the same or similar solute, and different solvents of varying danger such as toluene (quite nasty stuff, don't mess with it). Acetone will likely work to thin it down, though it may take some effort to start dissolving. I do not even recall ever seeing toluene in the stores. I know it is regulated and if you buy large quantities you will end up on a list as it can be used to make benzoic acid, which is used in the cocaine industry to give an extra boost to the cocaine as it potentiates alkaloids.
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