wseaton
starting to shine!
Member since January 2024
Posts: 30
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Post by wseaton on Jan 14, 2024 16:39:37 GMT -5
As a disclaimer I've never cut a rock in my life, but tumbled quite a few, and after visiting a lapidary and gem shop with some pretty high end stuff this idea came to mind. No idea where to ask it, so thought I would drop it here.
Gem shop has some giant slabs of showcase lace agate polished to incredible levels (and incredible prices), and they also had hundreds of bins full of rough broken agate and jasper along with raw and unblemished rocks of agate.
So, here goes. Lets start with one of those raw rocks of agate. Roughly the size of a softball. Most of the time is destined to be cut in half, or slabs, right? Color patterns will obviously be a final mystery until it's cut, but that's part of the hobby.
What would happen if rather than start from the inside we start from the outside? You cut facets off the outside removing more of the rough rock fairly evenly but keep most of the mass? Facets don't need to be perfectly even, or symetrical. Just kinda balanced I guess. If a cut yields a pretty bland interior go a bit deeper. What you would be left with is a smaller rock, but with smooth facets, likely some inclusions and such, but that's no big deal. Toss it in a vibratory or tumbler as per normal tumbling requirements. Likely stage 2 at the worst. Facets edges would obviously be smooth after that, but we would still have visible facets, and that's fine. Also be a a bit random as well, which is also fine. As long as it's shiny :-)
Is what I'm describing making sense, and is there a reason I haven't seen anything like this?
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 434
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Post by hypodactylus on Jan 14, 2024 17:20:05 GMT -5
I've cut some rocks somewhat in this manner, if I understand correctly. I often still cut them in half, because some of the best patterns are inside. After that, if I want to round out the rock for tumbling I will cut bits off the edges and outside to make the shape look better. However, larger rocks take a long time to round out and I am not particularly fond of a final shape that looks unnaturally cut (I have been loosening up on this a bit lately).
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wseaton
starting to shine!
Member since January 2024
Posts: 30
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Post by wseaton on Jan 14, 2024 19:17:28 GMT -5
That's something I missed - the best patterns are inside.
I was browsing through all their barrels, and they literally had broken chunks of crazy agate the size of footballs, and my wheels started turning; Why not cut from the outside slowly in.
When I saw those big slabs of lace agate and saw the prices I got inspired. Wish I had room for a saw.
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Post by Starguy on Jan 14, 2024 21:19:17 GMT -5
wseatonSometimes the outside or heel cuts tumble really nice. With auto-feed saws, clamping in the vice is the hardest part so I tend to cut slabs off toward the middle. When I can’t cross feed any farther I clamp the second half in a slab grabber. If you are hand pushing through a saw you can do whatever seems best at the time for the particular rock. Sometimes weathering and collisions with other rocks makes the outside skin the prettiest part of the nodule.
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wseaton
starting to shine!
Member since January 2024
Posts: 30
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Post by wseaton on Jan 14, 2024 21:48:45 GMT -5
Can't tell you guys how badly I want to grab one of those orange sized raw agates and try this and you guys aren't helping :-). Oh wait...I don't have a saw. Just try some sectional cuts from the outisde and work the onion so to speak. Best way to learn. Their raw rock was really cheap....ike $6 a pound. Even if a couple specimens were blah you aren't out much loss.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 14, 2024 22:16:42 GMT -5
I hand cut all my rocks...meaning I don't clamp them...I hold them while cutting them. So, what you're describing (to an extant) is something I do all the time. I don't cut the rough in half. I cut from the outside edges. Sometimes one side doesn't yield what I want or what I'm looking for...so I turn and try again.
The only time I'll cut rough down the middle (unless I'm resizing the pieces) is if the rock is some sort of nodule...where the "good stuff" is known to be in the middle.
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Post by velodromed on Jan 17, 2024 15:52:30 GMT -5
I hand cut all my rocks...meaning I don't clamp them...I hold them while cutting them. So, what you're describing (to an extant) is something I do all the time. I don't cut the rough in half. I cut from the outside edges. Sometimes one side doesn't yield what I want or what I'm looking for...so I turn and try again. The only time I'll cut rough down the middle (unless I'm resizing the pieces) is if the rock is some sort of nodule...where the "good stuff" is known to be in the middle. I want to understand this process more. Because to me, it sounds like he can do more with a smaller saw this way… Right? My plan is to soon try the saw again for the first time in over a year. I’ve got to change how I do it or I won’t be able to for very long.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 17, 2024 19:06:54 GMT -5
I hand cut all my rocks...meaning I don't clamp them...I hold them while cutting them. So, what you're describing (to an extant) is something I do all the time. I don't cut the rough in half. I cut from the outside edges. Sometimes one side doesn't yield what I want or what I'm looking for...so I turn and try again. The only time I'll cut rough down the middle (unless I'm resizing the pieces) is if the rock is some sort of nodule...where the "good stuff" is known to be in the middle. I want to understand this process more. Because to me, it sounds like he can do more with a smaller saw this way… Right? My plan is to soon try the saw again for the first time in over a year. I’ve got to change how I do it or I won’t be able to for very long. I don't want to speak for wseaton...but with my understanding of what's being described, no, it wouldn't allow for a smaller saw blade to deal with a large rock by doing this. A larger rock would still have to be rotated to get the blade to get through the entirety of the piece. I think what's being described is to "shave off" the outer edges of the piece.
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 17, 2024 19:23:13 GMT -5
You can cut a rock however you want. But when it comes to plume, or picture jaspers, there is only one correct way to cut them.
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wseaton
starting to shine!
Member since January 2024
Posts: 30
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Post by wseaton on Jan 17, 2024 23:03:45 GMT -5
I want to understand this process more. Because to me, it sounds like he can do more with a smaller saw this way… Right? My plan is to soon try the saw again for the first time in over a year. I’ve got to change how I do it or I won’t be able to for very long. I don't want to speak for wseaton ...but with my understanding of what's being described, no, it wouldn't allow for a smaller saw blade to deal with a large rock by doing this. A larger rock would still have to be rotated to get the blade to get through the entirety of the piece. I think what's being described is to "shave off" the outer edges of the piece.Exactly. Work from the outside in. I'm in the process of tumbling some very large jaspers and agates that will ultimately look very nice, but will take weeks and weeks to rough tumble, not to mention lots of grit. If I were to just cut them from the outside and get past the rough exterior it would conceptually be like tumbling - just removing piecwes in planes vs grinding. I get that fact that agates in particular are more interesting in the inside, but again I point out there are lots of tumbled agates that are pretty spectacular. Take that same agate and just cut large facets in it. Then tumble or vibrator polish. I also have some very large chunks of raw tigers eye. Possible to simply cut around the rough edge and then polish?
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 17, 2024 23:09:01 GMT -5
I don't want to speak for wseaton ...but with my understanding of what's being described, no, it wouldn't allow for a smaller saw blade to deal with a large rock by doing this. A larger rock would still have to be rotated to get the blade to get through the entirety of the piece. I think what's being described is to "shave off" the outer edges of the piece.Exactly. Work from the outside in. I'm in the process of tumbling some very large jaspers and agates that will ultimately look very nice, but will take weeks and weeks to rough tumble, not to mention lots of grit. If I were to just cut them from the outside and get past the rough exterior it would conceptually be like tumbling - just removing piecwes in planes vs grinding. I get that fact that agates in particular are more interesting in the inside, but again I point out there are lots of tumbled agates that are pretty spectacular. Take that same agate and just cut large facets in it. Then tumble or vibrator polish. I also have some very large chunks of raw tigers eye. Possible to simply cut around the rough edge and then polish? I think it's a super good idea to whittle off the edges of the piece before tumbling! I've seen just as many rocks having "cool stuff" on the outer perimeter of the rock as I have seen ones with "cool stuff" in the middle. (Nodule type material being an exception.)
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 18, 2024 1:17:11 GMT -5
I call it making a window, I'll take a cut in a likely looking direction, examine the results, and re-orient if necessary. Of course, I'm cutting to make slabs, and the only thing that will go in a tumbler is what I regard as scrap from lapidary.
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Post by Mel on Jan 19, 2024 22:14:02 GMT -5
I hand cut all my rocks...meaning I don't clamp them...I hold them while cutting them. This explains why you can't give high 5's, just high 3's I will cut rocks just about any way my vice can clamp them; my Lortone saw can cut some pretty crazy shaped rocks. For anything I can't clamp, a slab grabber or I'll embed them in plaster of paris so I can cut at any angle I choose. Works pretty good. Someone here was making jigs for cutting thunder eggs; I bet those would work pretty good. Or find someone who makes lots of spheres and see what their suggestion is since that involves a type of faceting cut, just on a larger scale.
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adam5
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2023
Posts: 146
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Post by adam5 on Jan 20, 2024 5:59:27 GMT -5
I hand cut all my rocks...meaning I don't clamp them...I hold them while cutting them. This explains why you can't give high 5's, just high 3's
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