pantagruel
starting to shine!
Member since November 2023
Posts: 33
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Post by pantagruel on Feb 3, 2024 19:41:36 GMT -5
Thanks again for those of you who helped me think through new faceting machines. I'm daydreaming all the time about faceting, have been for weeks and it just keeps growing! So I've started actively looking to buy a used faceting machine. I've come across four machines whose owners are waiting for me to make a decision. The machines are: - Sapphire that was purchased 2 years ago by someone who wanted to start, but disability got in the way, so he's selling.
- $550 (part of planned 2 hour drive to rockhound)
- Comes with original prints of The Facetier (I do have 1dave 's post about the Facetier and the Sapphire machine bookmarked)
- Only missing a container to hold water. Has a drip setup included.
- He's not been able to go to his basement to get pictures, and I'll be in his area next week so will stop by (and likely make a decision on the spot)
- (deleted the 2 machines that weren't real)
- Graves Mark 1
- $600 + shipping
- Paid $1000 a few years ago from an "old faceter who was retiring", never had time, but now is taking care of parents' and their own health problems, so selling
- lots of laps (some new), tons of dops, index gears
- Will provide a few jars of garnets, along with other gems
- "The machine needs nothing, that i know of. I bought it off of an old faceter. I never had a chance to use it yet but as far as i know it has everything."
- This person isn't, to my best guess, scamming anything, bc their personal FB page has a lot of lapidary and then a sudden stoppage and lots of sales listings (with lots of photos!). I think they're just having a hard time, bc caring for parents isn't easy.
- Raytech Shaw
- $800 + shipping
- Being sold by Rockoonz and seen lower in this thread.
- 96 index, 3 laps (that might only be good for master laps), 10 dops, a few set screws and allen wrenches
- no water reservoir
Sapphire: depends on what it looks like and how it runs. It won't be easy to find more accessories if I need them (especially index gears). No customer service. Graves: It's old, but appears in good condition. Some write-ups indicate that Mark 1 machines had fewer accuracy problems than later models. Speeds are only low and high; no reverse (though that can be changed if someone is mechanically inclined). Likely no customer service. Raytech Shaw: Hand piece, doesn't come with as many laps/accessories as other used machines. My gut is telling me that if the V2 or the unknown (depending on type) is as good as is advertised, then I should look closer at those. As much as I just want to be faceting all the time, waiting to buy a new machine (likely the UT VL with DAD) may be a better financial choice. Graves Mark 1: Raytech Shaw: see below in thread Thank you!
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 3, 2024 21:15:34 GMT -5
I have 3 faceting machines, and have never faceted a stone. The Graves MkI I got years ago from a friend is my "flat lap" for shaping, and I have used the mast for symmetrical intarsia pieces. They are not considered to be "good" faceting machines, but people have coaxed good stones out of them. The fixed speed motor was removed in 2020 and a Consew Servo and controller frankensteined on for variable speed. I got 2 Sapphire machines fairly recently, mostly because of the price. Neither has a motor, but both have most of the accessories available back then, Including collet style handpiece. My idea when I got them was a custom intarsia setup, but the way the platter attaches will not allow tilting, so for now they sit. If you haven't seen, here is a good informational site for the Sapphire. www.jewelcutter.com/sapphire/Edit: Nevermind, I have 4. Also a Raytech Shaw from an estate, bought in the lot and reselling. It is unique with that handliece on the table setup, so different from a mast.
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ThomasT
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Post by ThomasT on Feb 4, 2024 8:29:02 GMT -5
For what it's worth: A lot of award-winning gemstones have been cut with the Ultratec models over the years.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Feb 4, 2024 12:35:31 GMT -5
pantagruel Happy Birthday! And something to keep in mind about used faceting machines. Getting parts or service for old and discontinued machines can be a major problem. Even things like dops and indexes may have to be specially made if the manufacturer is no longer in business. My personal opinion is that it's better to stick with machine brands that are still being manufactured or have secondary sources that can supply any needed items. Of the machines mentioned I'd recommend the V2, assuming it's well maintained and in good condition. Buying used faceting machines can be a crapshoot. You want to be certain they're aligned properly. If you'd consider a handpiece machine I'd contact Rockoonz to look into his Raytech-Shaw machine.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 4, 2024 12:50:37 GMT -5
Personally The V2 checks all the boxes best IMO. If you go so far down the rabbit hole that you need a tool collection the rest are fine, but the ultratech is the one still in production WITH a responsive customer support. Just in case you are not already familiar with them... usfacetersguild.org/
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pantagruel
starting to shine!
Member since November 2023
Posts: 33
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Post by pantagruel on Feb 4, 2024 14:38:36 GMT -5
If you haven't seen, here is a good informational site for the Sapphire. www.jewelcutter.com/sapphire/Edit: Nevermind, I have 4. Also a Raytech Shaw from an estate, bought in the lot and reselling. It is unique with that handliece on the table setup, so different from a mast. I've read over that website a handful of times in the last few days! When I was first looking for a machine, I was thinking that a handpiece would be a good one for me--and Raytech Shaw was top of that list! Since then, after reading of and hearing from many faceters, it seems that the best for me is probably a mast machine with high repeatability and accuracy, and likely also a digital guide for angles. If this grant comes through (I'll know in May), then I will most likely buy a new UT machine (probably VL w/DAD) and probably sell any used machine I had acquired, unless I just really loved the used one and especially if it's a different style machine. If I am not awarded that grant, then I will certainly look to buy a used machine this summer if I don't already have one. I also anticipate that I won't purchase a new machine for several years (or unless I find other funding). All said, Rockoonz I'd love to hear more about your Raytech Shaw--here or in DMs! I'll send you a DM after posting this pantagruel Happy Birthday! And something to keep in mind about used faceting machines. Getting parts or service for old and discontinued machines can be a major problem. Even things like dops and indexes may have to be specially made if the manufacturer is no longer in business. My personal opinion is that it's better to stick with machine brands that are still being manufactured or have secondary sources that can supply any needed items. Of the machines mentioned I'd recommend the V2, assuming it's well maintained and in good condition. Buying used faceting machines can be a crapshoot. You want to be certain they're aligned properly. If you'd consider a handpiece machine I'd contact Rockoonz to look into his Raytech-Shaw machine. thank you! 🥳 Okay, good this affirms my thoughts that I should avoid the Gemmasta and Sapphire. More info on the V2: it was used, since purchase, by the seller's spouse, and I was told that she'd be happy to give me tips and advice as I need it in getting the machine situated. This info makes the V2 my favorite of the machines I have information about. Personally The V2 checks all the boxes best IMO. If you go so far down the rabbit hole that you need a tool collection the rest are fine, but the ultratech is the one still in production WITH a responsive customer support. Just in case you are not already familiar with them... usfacetersguild.org/Thank you! I know of the US Faceters Guild, seen bit of the forum, but I've not yet joined. On the customer side (for a new machine), Ultra Tec has been very responsive, and I've been over their shop, seeing where they have items that work for or upgrade the V2.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 6, 2024 16:03:12 GMT -5
In response to the DM and a teaser sales post if you get that V2, here's the Handpiece machine. Pretty Bare bones with a 96 index, the most versatile in my totally uneducated opinion, but since it will do multiples of 2 and 3 seems better than the 64 on my Graves. Also has 2 laps in addition to the one on it, may only be good for master lap bases, I don't know, and 10 dops. Also a couple of tiny set screws and allen wrenches to fit, clearly for the handpiece but since I don't know the operation of the machine I don't know if spares are common. Index was a little stiff to turn so I used aerosol graphite lock oil and it turns freely now. No water reservoir. Got a set of still pics, here's the video.
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ThomasT
spending too much on rocks
Trying to keep the dust down.
Member since June 2022
Posts: 256
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Post by ThomasT on Feb 6, 2024 16:18:00 GMT -5
Rockoonz I would also recommend being careful to not to get any graphite into your electronics or electric motor.
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pantagruel
starting to shine!
Member since November 2023
Posts: 33
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Post by pantagruel on Feb 6, 2024 16:58:00 GMT -5
In response to the DM and a teaser sales post if you get that V2, here's the Handpiece machine. The V2 was a total scam 😡... the guy stole the pics and videos from another post in another fb group, lied all over the place, and his profiles are taken down. I, of course, didn't send him any money, and it was fun to crack the case, but so much wasted time!
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ThomasT
spending too much on rocks
Trying to keep the dust down.
Member since June 2022
Posts: 256
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Post by ThomasT on Feb 6, 2024 17:09:35 GMT -5
Too good to be true deal... sounds like.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Feb 6, 2024 18:52:53 GMT -5
In response to the DM and a teaser sales post if you get that V2, here's the Handpiece machine. The V2 was a total scam 😡... the guy stole the pics and videos from another post in another fb group, lied all over the place, and his profiles are taken down. I, of course, didn't send him any money, and it was fun to crack the case, but so much wasted time! For some reason this apparently has become quite commonplace with used faceting machines. Lots of recent scams like this one. Glad you figured it out in time. I find it rather odd that faceting machines have been chosen for this particular hustle with so many other more popular items available but the phrase "buyer beware" goes back to antiquity.
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ThomasT
spending too much on rocks
Trying to keep the dust down.
Member since June 2022
Posts: 256
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Post by ThomasT on Feb 6, 2024 19:18:00 GMT -5
Might be a scammers dream... since new models are over $5K...
Those Ultra-Tec are more for precision than those mass production peg machines used overseas in the mass faceted gem production factories.
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Post by pauls on Feb 12, 2024 18:35:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too much about getting spares for the Graves, apart from the casing everything else is just off the shelf stuff, As long as there's nothing broken or badly worn it should get you on the road. Bearings are cheap if you need them, dops can be made by any half competent machine shop, Know someone with a 3d Printer you can print index wheels. The motor is a standard induction motor, it might need bearings greased or oiled and the capacitor if it's capacitor start may be near it's end of life but if you take the Capacitor to an electric motor repair shop you will probably get one for $10-$20. Might be even cheaper from an electrical wholesaler. Use it as a starter machine learn the craft and keep your eyes peeled for the machine of your dreams, you wont lose money on it.
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