rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 21, 2024 16:25:04 GMT -5
I'm curious about something and I wonder if anyone has any insight - I recently saw a chunk of African Cobeltite for sale on an auction that I thought was gorgeous, but wanted to look it up to see what it was, etc. I was greeted by image upon image of Congonese (I think) or similar country folk mining - children, people of all ages and then a couple of articles that talk about human rights violations. I've seen the movie Blood Diamond (don't watch if you're sensitive - I cried through the whole movie) and am somewhat aware of the atrocities of these mining operations - I ended up passing on the rock because I don't want to support that kind of operation. It led me to wonder how many of the rocks I've purchased do support that kind of thing. I know I can go down a rabbit hole with it, but it just made me curious. I recall seeing something similar about lapis lazuli recently, out of Afganistan, I think, but someone else had the viewpoint that this is their livelihood and not purchasing takes that away from the miners (not minors). So I'm just a bit confused. Most of what i get is from the good ole usa...
Anyways - I tend to overthink things so please tell me if I'm doing that here. Thanks!
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ThomasT
spending too much on rocks
Trying to keep the dust down.
Member since June 2022
Posts: 258
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Post by ThomasT on Feb 21, 2024 18:14:06 GMT -5
It's a really good idea to try an obtain ethically sourced materials. Unethical men (and women) have been stealing from, and abusing, the poor and weak around the globe since times forgotten.
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Post by greig on Feb 21, 2024 18:36:12 GMT -5
I'm curious about something and I wonder if anyone has any insight - I recently saw a chunk of African Cobeltite for sale on an auction that I thought was gorgeous, but wanted to look it up to see what it was, etc. I was greeted by image upon image of Congonese (I think) or similar country folk mining - children, people of all ages and then a couple of articles that talk about human rights violations. I've seen the movie Blood Diamond (don't watch if you're sensitive - I cried through the whole movie) and am somewhat aware of the atrocities of these mining operations - I ended up passing on the rock because I don't want to support that kind of operation. It led me to wonder how many of the rocks I've purchased do support that kind of thing. I know I can go down a rabbit hole with it, but it just made me curious. I recall seeing something similar about lapis lazuli recently, out of Afganistan, I think, but someone else had the viewpoint that this is their livelihood and not purchasing takes that away from the miners (not minors). So I'm just a bit confused. Most of what i get is from the good ole usa... Anyways - I tend to overthink things so please tell me if I'm doing that here. Thanks! PM me if you want cobalt. I have quite a bit from Cobalt Ontario (Canada) that I'd be happy to share.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 21, 2024 18:47:55 GMT -5
It's a really good idea to try an obtain ethically sourced materials. Unethical men (and women) have been stealing from, and abusing, the poor and weak around the globe since times forgotten. Oh absolutely! I do feel very strongly about that which is why I questioned it. I guess I'll just not venture out to things I"m unfamiliar with. Thanks!
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 21, 2024 18:53:42 GMT -5
I'm curious about something and I wonder if anyone has any insight - I recently saw a chunk of African Cobeltite for sale on an auction that I thought was gorgeous, but wanted to look it up to see what it was, etc. I was greeted by image upon image of Congonese (I think) or similar country folk mining - children, people of all ages and then a couple of articles that talk about human rights violations. I've seen the movie Blood Diamond (don't watch if you're sensitive - I cried through the whole movie) and am somewhat aware of the atrocities of these mining operations - I ended up passing on the rock because I don't want to support that kind of operation. It led me to wonder how many of the rocks I've purchased do support that kind of thing. I know I can go down a rabbit hole with it, but it just made me curious. I recall seeing something similar about lapis lazuli recently, out of Afganistan, I think, but someone else had the viewpoint that this is their livelihood and not purchasing takes that away from the miners (not minors). So I'm just a bit confused. Most of what i get is from the good ole usa... Anyways - I tend to overthink things so please tell me if I'm doing that here. Thanks! PM me if you want cobalt. I have quite a bit from Cobalt Ontario (Canada) that I'd be happy to share. Thank you! I will do that.
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Post by vegasjames on Feb 21, 2024 19:00:46 GMT -5
Do you eat chocolate? Did you know child labor is used to harvest the cocoa pods?
Do ou ave a cell phone? Did you know the metals for your cell phone battery use child labor to obtain? Same for those with electric and hybrid vehicles.
How many clothes items such as sneakers use child labor in the manufacturing?
The problem is widespread and if we really want to make a change refusing to buy a rock is not going to do it. We need to get our representatives to put pressure on government's allowing child labor.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 21, 2024 19:27:37 GMT -5
Do you eat chocolate? Did you know child labor is used to harvest the cocoa pods? Do ou ave a cell phone? Did you know the metals for your cell phone battery use child labor to obtain? Same for those with electric and hybrid vehicles. How many clothes items such as sneakers use child labor in the manufacturing? The problem is widespread and if we really want to make a change refusing to buy a rock is not going to do it. We need to get our representatives to put pressure on government's allowing child labor. ahh...thank you for the reminder. Fair point. I'm still not buying the rock, but the problem really is quite widespread across industries. I guess I saw those images and it fueled a negative reaction...I guess this is a bit of a knee jerk post lol
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Post by rmf on Feb 21, 2024 19:28:01 GMT -5
rocknewb101 If in doubt don't do it for your own conscience sake. Though I understand your dilemma it can create a whole problem of existence. For example why the kids just in Africa? How about the contaminated applesauce from South America that killed 6 in the US because someone chose to increase the weight by adding lead to get the weight up. Or the largest market for human traffic'd people in the world Yep USA. There is someone in every town or county that is so greedy they are into something illegal. Dope, prostitution, corruption. we all know it, we are not in a position to prove it and to know who is being paid off. You can spend all day every day researching rocks and how they are mined but we have enough mess in our own back yards . That does not mean we should just buy without regard but at then end of the day you trust and hope that the rock you buy was not stolen from someones property or mined by kids or a million other possibilities just like the apple sauce you feed your baby that you bought at Walmart was not packaged by someone willing to kill to make 2 grams more weight on a product. I have watched family members be so greedy over a few family trinkets they will steal from their brothers and sisters. If that is what we do to family we don't have much hope for how we treat strangers. This is an important question to ask. If in doubt choose to live with a clean conscience.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 21, 2024 21:39:59 GMT -5
rocknewb101 If in doubt don't do it for your own conscience sake. Though I understand your dilemma it can create a whole problem of existence. For example why the kids just in Africa? How about the contaminated applesauce from South America that killed 6 in the US because someone chose to increase the weight by adding lead to get the weight up. Or the largest market for human traffic'd people in the world Yep USA. There is someone in every town or county that is so greedy they are into something illegal. Dope, prostitution, corruption. we all know it, we are not in a position to prove it and to know who is being paid off. You can spend all day every day researching rocks and how they are mined but we have enough mess in our own back yards . That does not mean we should just buy without regard but at then end of the day you trust and hope that the rock you buy was not stolen from someones property or mined by kids or a million other possibilities just like the apple sauce you feed your baby that you bought at Walmart was not packaged by someone willing to kill to make 2 grams more weight on a product. I have watched family members be so greedy over a few family trinkets they will steal from their brothers and sisters. If that is what we do to family we don't have much hope for how we treat strangers. This is an important question to ask. If in doubt choose to live with a clean conscience. Thank rmf. I guess I just need to get out of my head.
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Post by parfive on Feb 22, 2024 2:04:22 GMT -5
Blood diamonds. Blood chicken. Blood puddin’.
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wargrafix
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2023
Posts: 550
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Post by wargrafix on Feb 22, 2024 12:24:08 GMT -5
It's a fair question to ask since many times you di want to label the source and unwittingly you discover unsavory facts.
It's a cruel world out there that knows there is a demand and gambles are made on how much people will pay for it and what they will tolerate
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Post by parfive on Feb 22, 2024 13:48:20 GMT -5
Speakin’ o’ the devil, just this mornin’ . . . The department’s legal filing details the severe injuries one 14-year-old sustained while cleaning the drumstick packing line belt at a plant in Virginia. Records show Fayette learned the worker was underage after the child was injured and continued to employ the minor anyway, according to an investigator.
The latest findings add to a growing list of violations, including the fatal mangling of a 16-year-old working at a Mississippi poultry plant, the death of a 16-year-old after an accident at a sawmill in Wisconsin, and last year’s report of more than 100 children illegally employed by Packers Sanitation Services Inc., or PSSI, across 13 meatpacking plants.
A US company is accused of illegally hiring children to clean meat processing plants apnews.com/article/illegal-child-labor-slaughterhouses-8f95aef240050c6910aa8e1b6bce1c6a
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Post by parfive on Feb 22, 2024 13:58:08 GMT -5
Any Uyghur blood on them golden slippers or is it just the plain ol’ Han variety?
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 22, 2024 14:18:30 GMT -5
Speakin’ o’ the devil, just this mornin’ . . . The department’s legal filing details the severe injuries one 14-year-old sustained while cleaning the drumstick packing line belt at a plant in Virginia. Records show Fayette learned the worker was underage after the child was injured and continued to employ the minor anyway, according to an investigator.
The latest findings add to a growing list of violations, including the fatal mangling of a 16-year-old working at a Mississippi poultry plant, the death of a 16-year-old after an accident at a sawmill in Wisconsin, and last year’s report of more than 100 children illegally employed by Packers Sanitation Services Inc., or PSSI, across 13 meatpacking plants.
A US company is accused of illegally hiring children to clean meat processing plants apnews.com/article/illegal-child-labor-slaughterhouses-8f95aef240050c6910aa8e1b6bce1c6a
OMG that's awful. And I only see it getting worse with some of our politicians looking to roll back child labor ages/laws.
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wargrafix
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2023
Posts: 550
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Post by wargrafix on Feb 22, 2024 16:50:43 GMT -5
Unethical is one thing.
Evil is the main description. Employers who break that law (underage labor) view people as expendable assets that they not only replace but fund the conditions which create the market.
Those kind of employers have different incarnations over the years. Slave owners would be one of them
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,584
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Post by Mark K on Feb 22, 2024 16:54:30 GMT -5
Either you are going to get it or someone else will. In the end it will get bought.
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titaniumkid
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2023
Posts: 185
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Post by titaniumkid on Feb 22, 2024 22:52:35 GMT -5
Thank you for writing this. It never really occurred to me, and I like to be mindful about what I buy if I can. Is there a reliable way to find out where rocks come from and what conditions they were obtained under? The place I buy rocks from is lucky to list a country.
There is the idea that one person doing the right thing won't make a difference, but I believe if enough "one persons" do the right thing, the effect can be significant. Also, it's not good enough to wait for governments, legislation, and business to catch up and do the right thing because they can be slow and short-sighted (or corrupt). How we spend a dollar can be an important way to communicate what we believe is important.
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 23, 2024 2:58:26 GMT -5
I suspect that this topic is similar to the loose thread on a sweater, pulling on it will lead to more and more unpleasantness. What about all of the pre-cut, pre-polished, pre-carved items I see at the Show's for sale? Were they all made in a safe and health conscious environment? The answer that in some cases, they are not and the conditions would probably give most of us out here on the forum some concern. All I can say for sure is that all of the cut and polished items I sell are made by me. Every crystal or mineral specimen I sell was collected by me as a fun portion of my hobby. It not realistic to assume that everyone should be able to say that. There is material that I cut and polish, Brazilian Agate, Tiger Eye, Choyas Geodes, and a few others that come from overseas and how they were obtained is unknown to me and there is no way for me to ascertain. Some of the material was originally purchased years ago and I am the second or third time buyer.
It's not just rocks. With the global economy, we have the ability to purchase and lot of different things from a lot of different places. I suspect that at least some small portion of those items come from questionable origins.
It gets more complicated when you consider that in some cases, the meager money earned by the individual keeps some overseas family from starving. We lose sight of that here in our mostly middle class existence. My Dad used to tell how he and his siblings worked on the farm and the hours and the conditions they worked in, we now consider some of that as unacceptable as it should be, back then it was helping the family to survive.
I don't have any real answer to these questions, just that the sweater can begin to look pretty ragged.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,323
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 23, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -5
Thank you so much, everyone for your comments here - This issue truly appears to be a global one that spans so many markets and one that I was aware of, but got super focused on only the rock side of it. I don't think there is anyway to know for sure where some/most of our items come from, but taking a stand where we can is important. @titaniumkid - I have no idea how to know for sure, other than maybe researching the particular rock (item) you are interested in to get a starting point. I've made the decision that I'm in rock jail for now (Gosh Darn Facebook and those auctions are killing my wallet haha!) after I receive my final three orders (no shame!) one of which is dino bone (yay me! Not the super pretty, but something fun to try) and I'll just be working what I have for now. I appreciate you all!
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 24, 2024 1:35:18 GMT -5
There are plenty of domestic miners who don't employ children or anything like that, just saw Larry Ridler at Quartzsite, he's about 80 and now needs a step stool to get up onto his escavator, but he does it and puts in a full day finding Willow Creek for us. Is that elder self abuse!?! My dealer friend who imports materials from Madagascar set up a small factory in a town there, a couple families there make the finished pieces he sells, and they have a good life. He has had the ear of leaders there and is trying to convince them that shutting off the flow to china, and processing resources there, will make everyone, including those leaders, much better off. Brazil did it years ago, and their standard of living is much higher than the rest of S America.
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