horsinaround
spending too much on rocks
If you don't lick rocks...you ain't cool
Member since November 2006
Posts: 315
|
Post by horsinaround on May 3, 2007 7:38:01 GMT -5
Hi everyone, in every single batch of rocks i tumbled and polish, I get lots of rocks with pits and dull finishes. the quartz usually ends up with dull finishes and alot of my rocks get pits in them. Recently I have started seperating the pitted ones and filling the pits with super glue to experiment. Does anyonme else have this problem with pits in thier rocks? out of a tumbler full of rocks in thier natural state without cabbing and grinding... I only get maybe half or less with out pits in them. Then there is the quartz(honey, purple, a type of rosey quartz mix and soem green quartzy stuff not pictured) Ithey seem to come out very dull looking and have small pitted areas as well(you can see itty bitty pits with magnifying glass with white polish residue in them) What am I doing wrong? please help me.....licking them just does not work any longer...LOL Thanks for looking Steve
|
|
chinook203
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since February 2006
Posts: 849
|
Post by chinook203 on May 3, 2007 8:42:43 GMT -5
You will get muuuuuch better advice, I'm still in the rookie stages I think. I'm wondering if they aren't hard enough, or they just need to run in the first stage longer. I have some that will have the pits. As for shine.......keep trying. I've finally gotten to where I get a kick butt shine on my rotary, but can't get it in the vibe. I'm going to try a different ao polish next go around. I'm trying to figure out why my aventurine fractures all the time in the rotary and in the vibe! Good luck!
|
|
stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
|
Post by stefan on May 3, 2007 10:28:02 GMT -5
Well Lets look at this carefully- THe rocks you show here do not look like they should have left course- I'm guessing that the white stuff is polish in the pits whick leads me to believe that a couple more weeks in course were needed. Now that being said- those rocks are pretty small- so I could see why you wanted to move them on- BUT (ahh there is always a But) you need to look at the possibility that some rocks just DON'T TUMBLE!!!! I think you need to do nothing more than to recheck your course tumble- Remember MOST of the grinding is down in course- if the pits are in course- they are going to be in polish! the only reason polish pits show up so well is the white residue that sticks in them- As for shine- well I run a very long polish cycle- 3 weeks!! But you can get a good shine after a week- you just got to make sure that the rocks going in are truely ready for the polish stage- I think if you pay more attention to the course grind- the rest will take care of itself!
|
|
RockyBlue
fully equipped rock polisher
Go U.K.
Member since June 2006
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by RockyBlue on May 3, 2007 10:45:47 GMT -5
Hey Steve! I tumbled a batch of Blue Lace Agate when i first tumblingand i was guilty of doing everything to fast,because i didn`t have enough patience,Here are some of the things i did that you should not do Pre-grinding,i let my stones get too hot by not using enough water and they[BLA] and i got fractures in every stone,i didn`t use a Dremel tool on the pits,i should have rounded out the pits so so that my pellets could get into the pits,I didn`t leave my batch in 60/60 long enough therefore they were not shaped very good,I didn`t use Borax between stages therefore i got polish in the pits and cracks and they showed up as white lines and spots,Some of my batches came out dull or semi glossy because i didn`t leave them in the pre-polish and polish long enough.These are some of the things that us "newbies" do because we are impatient,we are in a hurry to see the results and were not happy with the results,and say "what did i do wrong" in my case it was everything so i did just as your doing i ask the more knowledgeable people on this board and i did as they suggested and now my batches are comming out much better,not perfect but better.I hope this helps,,.........Rocky
|
|
|
Post by rockyraccoon on May 3, 2007 13:44:56 GMT -5
any that won't cooperate i make stay in 60/90 until they act right or disintegrate.
kim
|
|
|
Post by cina on May 3, 2007 13:44:57 GMT -5
I think Rocky said it all the best thing to do is give it time time time time then when you think it is good give it a day or so more Steph
|
|
|
Post by parfive on May 3, 2007 23:20:44 GMT -5
That's about it, Steve . . . ya gotta keep 'em in 60/90 till they're flawless. If you've got pits showin' up when you clean the barrel between charges, you can smooth them out with the edge of the WorkForce blade. When you've got a real crater or vug or something that'll never tumble out in a hundred years, just cut the rock in half right through it.
Rich
|
|
adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,777
|
Post by adrian65 on May 3, 2007 23:57:45 GMT -5
Been there, done that, and I still am, and I still do . What I already understood is that the 1 week/stage - receipt is just for the purpose of catching the beginners in the hobby, if someone would tell you from the beginning about the real durations, almost everyone would quit before beginning. I've also noticed that some rocks just don't polish well. Sometimes the same rock has good areas and bad areas. I don't know how easy to polish is the quartz, I begun with some agates and mostly jasper and I had a decent result for a - 4 stage/1 week per stage/ single barrel/ no borax - tumble. But I'm still far from the perfect "wet" shine I've seen on some posts here. One more question, borax should be added into grit, or just used between the stages? Adrian
|
|
horsinaround
spending too much on rocks
If you don't lick rocks...you ain't cool
Member since November 2006
Posts: 315
|
Post by horsinaround on May 4, 2007 6:30:53 GMT -5
thanks for the input everyone, First let me say this...those rocks I showed you not the quartz, but the rocks...we the very first batch I did ..I started the rough tumble in october...put them in fine grit in december, prepolish in jan...polish in jan. You do the math....lots of time to tumble...patience was not the issue... Since this first batch, I am in the process of doing other things such as....super glue in pits and cracks after the very first rough tumble. I now also do pre grinding and pre cutting on the work force.then, after the rough grind and before the fine grit, I put on my jewelers magnifyers(I look like Professor geek-a-zoid wearing them) but I inspect each and every rock for imperfections and re-glue if needed or I re-grind them. with all these precautions taken, I have found that some still come out dull in the end. I have read, re-read and re-read again all the tips on pre-polishing and polishing, in every stage of my tumble now, I put in soap powder to help the grit slips over the rocks smoothly. I have added small 1/4" and under gravel type of rocks in with the batches to help move the grit inbetween the rocks during the tumble phases. I am still getting fractures with my rocks in the rough , fine and prepolish stages.I have tried the plastic pellets with each phase as well, what a pain in the butt they are to work around and I do not see any difference in results. Am I perhaps doing something wrong by not having the pellets in my grind phases? ? I have printed off all the tips and hints on polishing rocks from this site. I have a 3 ring binder full of rock tumbling hints and tips and I am always reading them. I am hoping this present batch I have in the rough phase will be fine for me. I have 56 lbs of rocks in the rough phase right now between 3 different tumblers....every few days I open each barrell, inspect all the rocks, pull out the ones that are ready for fine grit, put them in a seperate bin till I get enough for a 12 lb tumbler full for fine grinding. so, with all the tips and hints everyone here has given me .... I will keep trying to get a good batch. I often wonder if my prepolish phase is where i am not letting them go long enough. how long do I need to let them pre-polish for? how much pre polish do I need per lbs and how much polish, sugar soap do I need for the polish phases? ? thank you for the input everyone Steve
|
|
RockyBlue
fully equipped rock polisher
Go U.K.
Member since June 2006
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by RockyBlue on May 4, 2007 9:00:10 GMT -5
Hey Steve! You might have so much info it`s confusing you,try to keep it as simple as you can.i did the same thing when i first started,so in order for me to keep it simple,I recieved a recipe i`m not sure who gave it to me,here`s that recipe. it`s for mid range hardness for the harder stuff just add more time in each stage,it works for me. 60/90---6wks. 120/220---5 days 500---5 days add pellets Tripoli---9 days with pellets AO polish 7 days 4tbls. in 60/90 3tbls for everything else 8 hr Boraxo wash between every stage this is my basic recipe. I hope this helps...........................Rocky
|
|
|
Post by rockyraccoon on May 4, 2007 11:23:01 GMT -5
ok here are the things i would check on in rough: are there large, hard rocks that are beating up smaller and/or softer rocks?
in the later stages: if you said this already, i missed it but do you have a separate polish barrel? i have separate barrels for each stage. i've been known to push them through in the same barrel through all stages except polish when i move to a different barrel. but i always change barrels for the polish stage. i would change them at all stages but sometimes i run the last rough grind for months and they are ready for polish at that point.
kim
|
|
|
Post by Cher on May 4, 2007 12:04:56 GMT -5
Since this first batch, I am in the process of doing other things such as....super glue in pits and cracks after the very first rough tumble. I now also do pre grinding and pre cutting on the work force.then, after the rough grind and before the fine grit, I put on my jewelers magnifyers(I look like Professor geek-a-zoid wearing them) but I inspect each and every rock for imperfections and re-glue if needed or I re-grind them. with all these precautions taken, I have found that some still come out dull in the end. If you have holes that you're filling with glue, they haven't been in the coarse stage long enough. What kind of soap are you putting in the barrel? You don't want the grit to slip over the rocks, you want it to dig in and smooth them out. I don't ever use any in any of the stages but have used borax now and then though I can't say I've really noticed any difference. Now I just use it to wash the rocks and pellets between each stage. No, I don't think so. The only time I've used pellets in the coarse stage was when I was doing Apache Tears, to me it really slows down the grind. I use pellets in each stage after coarse though. Are the rocks basically all of similar hardness? Do you have a good variety of different sizes? Unless you are doing very soft rocks, checking every few days is a waste of time and grit. Once a week is often enough to check them, recharge (restart them with new 60/90 grit) and start it on a new grind. After a week there should be little or no grit left in the barrel. How thick is the slurry? After a week of grinding it should have the consistency of heavy cream. If it's too watery, you're not getting good tumbling/grind action and if it's too thick, you're not getting good action either. You can "jump start" a new coarse stage by adding a little slurry from the previous load but not too much or it will get too thick right away. 60/90 ... For as long as it takes to get nice smooth surfaces with no pits etc. Each of the following stages ... (my opinion and the recipe that gives me good results). A week minimum. Longer won't hurt if you're busy but IMHO, nothing less than a week. 120/200 with pellets 500 with pellets 1000 AO grit (this is my pre-polish) with pellets. Aluminum Oxide polish for nothing less than 10 days with pellets. Also and extremely important. The pellets you use in 120/200 stay with 120/200 .... never ever move pellets on to the next stage. Put them in a baggie, mark the baggie with the grit and save them for the next load. I also reuse my 500, 1000, and polish many times over with excellent results. Now, if you haven't been confused yet, you should be. *smile* Good luck and keep on trying, you'll get it eventually.
|
|
chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by chassroc on May 4, 2007 12:22:33 GMT -5
Steve, Let me first preface this with a statement that I am a "Hands On" kind of guy and a visual learner. I learn much better from my own mistakes than someone elses successes. I am a doer and believe there is no substitute for experience. Someone has already said this, but let me emphasize, "There are rocks that do not take a shine". If you wet your rocks, that is as good as you can hope for. Your rocks will noever look better than when they are wet. Remember the old computer axiom GIGO, Garbage in Garbage out. It applies to RockTumbling. Your results can only be as good as the rough will allow. Rocks with a lot of pitting and inclusions may not be shineable. That red rock with all its pitting will never be as shiny as you would like. It will never look real good. That very white rock on the right side of the upper pix will never shine. I doubt the yellowish rock in the first picture can shine either, too much sand, IMHO. You may get a shine on the pink rock with the grayish middle but it needs more time in coarse grit. It looks as if it split apart during tumbling. Quartz is a very difficult material for a newbie to Tumbling. Stick to the old reliables, Agate, Jasper and Pet Wood. You already seem to have a good handle on Tumbling and I have to believe it is the material and not you methodology. You said they went for two months in Coarse grit and medium grit for two months, fine git for one and prepolish/polish for another month. That is a longgggggggggggg time and should be sufficient for any polishable material, if you are reasonable clean(which you certainly are).
The only fault I can find is that you are spending too much time in analysis and not enough time in practice. You should not try too many tips and techniques at any one time. Keep it simple and you will get results if you have a decent rough.
Dont tinker with your tumbles too much. Give it a full week in coarse(typically60/90) grit. After a while you will know from the sound if the tumble is going right; no need to open up your barrels day to day; just week to week(in a rotary). Remove the rocks that are ready to move on if there are enough and reload the barrels. In most cases, one week in medium((120/220), one week in fine(400/500), and one week in polish(ao) is sufficient. Use this as a guideline and reference for tumbling. Take your own notes and/or pictures for reference. That is much more useful than reading about someone else's tumbling technique. I also tumble a week in prepolish(1000). You can double(2 weeks) or 1 1/2 (10days) the time for any stage, but it is not always necessary for good to very good results. If you need some rough that I know will shine. PM me with your address and I'll give you some to try.
Good luck csroc
Simple
|
|
Minnesota-6
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2005
Posts: 7
|
Post by Minnesota-6 on May 4, 2007 23:35:36 GMT -5
garbage in.... garbage out... k.i.s.s. keep it simple stupid... no bad feelings intended, just those rocks are not going to shine the way you are doing them... after 1-2-5 or how many years you do this, if you got a hard on to make these particular rocks shine, save all the ones from now until then and put all the ones together like this that dont shine and maybe you'll get what you're looking for when you just put all those together, I dont know for sure (have not done it longe enogh myself to know for sure) I've seen results like this myself and just toss those ones back to the rock heap and find new ones to try. Some of the cooler rocks I find turn to dirt after they are tumbled
|
|