|
Post by sandsman1 on Apr 12, 2007 13:48:22 GMT -5
every time i hear about this guy i have to smile my opinion is he has the right idea --- why should the good guys pay for the bad guys to have any luxury wile there in prison --- if i could vote for him i would everytime haha
Update on Joe Arpaio
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO
HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER
THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY: Sheriff Joe Arpaio
(In Arizona )
who created the
" Tent City Jail":
He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.
He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights Cut off all but "G" movies.
He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.
Then He Started
Chain Gangs For Women
So He Wouldn't Get
Sued For
Discrimination.
He took away cable TV Until
he found out there was
A
Federal Court Order
that
Required Cable TV For Jails.
So He Hooked Up The Cable TV Again
Only Let In The Disney Channel And The Weather Channel.
When asked why the weather channel
He Replied,
So They Will Know
How Hot It's Gonna Be
While They Are Working
ON
My Chain Gangs.
He Cut Off Coffee
Since It Has
Zero Nutritional Value.
When the inmates complained, he told them, "This Isn't
The Ritz/Carlton.
If You Don't Like It,
Don't Come Back."
He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.
When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.
More On The Arizona Sheriff:
With Temperatures Being Even Hotter
Than Usual In Phoenix
(116 Degrees Just Set A New Record),
the Associated Press Reports:
About 2,000 Inmates Living In A Barbed-Wire-Surrounded Tent Encampment At The Maricopa County Jail Have Been Given Permission To Strip Down To Their Government-Issued Pink Boxer Shorts.
On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 Degrees Inside The Week Before.Many Were Also Swathed In Wet, Pink Towels As Sweat Collected On Their Chests And Dripped Down To Their PINK SOCKS.
"It Feels Like We Are In A Furnace,"
Said James Zanzot, An Inmate Who Has Lived In The TENTS for 1 year.
"It's Inhumane." Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff
who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic
He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 Degrees In Iraq And
Our Soldiers Are Living In Tents Too,
And They Have To
Wear Full Battle Gear,
But
They Didn't Commit Any Crimes,
So Shut Your Damned Mouths!"
Way To Go, Sheriff!
Maybe if all prisons were like this one
there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders.
Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.
If you agree, pass this on. If not, just delete it.
Sheriff Joe
was just re-elected Sheriff in Maricopa County , Arizona .
|
|
|
Post by freeform on Apr 12, 2007 15:45:29 GMT -5
good Point John, but keep in mind. though he uses tactics to demean the prisoner. Over 60% of the people in there are for non-crimnal reasons. Traffic tickets, domestic vilence, drug users and many that really shouldnt be in there for as long as they are. Tent city was created for the specific reason of overpopulated prisons. Nothing else. Its kinda of an messed up when the most free contry in the world, has the most amount of prisons and prisoners? Dont ya think?
|
|
|
Post by sandsman1 on Apr 12, 2007 19:22:41 GMT -5
i hear what your sayin shane but the way i think, if you got there you deserve to be there and i dont think it should be a hoilday wile your payin your debt to society, no mater what reason put you there after all its called jail not the holiday inn its not supposed to be a vacation your supposed to learn what you did was wrong and that you dont wanna have to go through this again right?-- if they let me have my way there would be no tv no radios and absolutly no comforts at all this way maybe the bad guys would think twice befor they do the same dumb thing again haha
|
|
|
Post by Toad on Apr 12, 2007 19:23:15 GMT -5
Freeform - you think domestic violence is non-criminal??? good Point John, but keep in mind. though he uses tactics to demean the prisoner. Over 60% of the people in there are for non-crimnal reasons. Traffic tickets, domestic vilence, drug users and many that really shouldnt be in there for as long as they are. Tent city was created for the specific reason of overpopulated prisons. Nothing else. Its kinda of an messed up when the most free contry in the world, has the most amount of prisons and prisoners? Dont ya think?
|
|
|
Post by Toad on Apr 12, 2007 19:25:40 GMT -5
Go Sherrif Joe!
|
|
|
Post by freeform on Apr 12, 2007 19:43:57 GMT -5
Here in AZ Toad, if the police get called out on a Domestic violence call. One of the people involved is going to jail for at least one night. Depending on how severe the incident is, some go for many nights. There are cases of non violence in the means of physical harm, Yet someone goes to jail for having a heated argument with their spouse.
I am not an advocate of domestic violence which you're seemling trying to point out. But i am an advocate of stopping and pointing out poor and wasteful practices, especially when it can effect homes and families on a greater level than sheriff Joe would admit. Crazy Charles Crawford here in Pinal county has run for Sheriff three times in the last few main elections for sheriff. Each time he has failed, only because he will put up a similar prison system. When Pinal county already has a real big one.
John, you are right. Yes, but my point is not everyone put there, desevers to be there. Or the system simple has rejected them into a rutine of jail and vileonce simple for the sake of making more money. That is what tent city means to the state and the county. Nothing more.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
|
Post by Sabre52 on Apr 12, 2007 20:42:47 GMT -5
Here here for Sheriff Joe. That's my kind of Sheriff!! Jail isn't supposed to be fun and is supposed to make bad guys not wanna go back. Shain ole buddy. Last time I looked, drug use and domestic violence etc are crimes even here in Commiefornia!!!!!...mel
|
|
|
Post by Toad on Apr 12, 2007 20:45:09 GMT -5
I see what you mean now, freeform. Just a bit confusing.
But as for Sherrif Joe, he doesn't decide who goes to jail - that's the legal system's job. Sounds like your complaint is with it, not Sherrif Joe. He just watches the people that get sent to him. If you don't like who's going to jail - vote out the judges, not Joe.
|
|
spikeict
fully equipped rock polisher
Alba gu bra! In Promptu
Member since November 2006
Posts: 1,413
|
Post by spikeict on Apr 12, 2007 21:11:50 GMT -5
" One of the people involved is going to jail for at least one night. Depending on how severe the incident is, some go for many nights."
There is a reason for that. Before most states enacted the Domestic violence law that comples a law enforcement officer to arrest someone when a physical act of violence has occured whether they witnessed it or not, often times the victim spouse would retract his or hers statement and refuse to sign the compliant. Often this would occur over and over again, each case was different and yet the same, the spouse was trying to teach the other a lesson, someone either the other spouse or a friend would talk them out of it or"But I love him" . Then a week later the original victim ends up in the hospital screaming but you guys had him two weeks ago and didn't do anything.
When Sheriff Joe started his tent camps in the early 90's he was quietly applauded in the Law Enforcement community, no one knew how it would work then. I can tell you from personal experience that it works. I interviewed a carerrer burgler from his county, his record showed showed arrests in neighboring counties but not his own. After he cleared our local crime he talked pretty freely, when asked about the other arrests, he said "are you kidding? If I'm caught I was not going to take a chance of being sent there."
As for traffic tickets, the last I knew the only people there for traffic were repeat DUI's and as far as I am concerned they need the lesson.
Spike
|
|
spikeict
fully equipped rock polisher
Alba gu bra! In Promptu
Member since November 2006
Posts: 1,413
|
Post by spikeict on Apr 12, 2007 21:21:07 GMT -5
"Tent city was created for the specific reason of overpopulated prisons. Nothing else."
No, it was to teach "Don't come back" right or wrong that is what it was and is. This is something that while I was not there to see, read everything there was to read about it at the time as the local Sheriff had become inspired and research needed to be done
He used the over populated jails to justify it in the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by deb193 on Apr 13, 2007 1:39:00 GMT -5
I think this guy is dangerous precisely because you guys like him so much. The devil always comes in a sweet guise. I am all for a conversation about how not to coddle prisoners. More so for a state prison where there are violent criminals. But bottom line, when you have someone in your custody, you do have a responsibility to see that they are safe and humanely treated. I am OK with volunteer transfer to work camps, if the conditions are not insane, and health and safety issues are taken care of. I am much less in favor ho harsh conditions for a county jail where many of the offenses are petty - or like Shain says could be just a heated argument. Some offenses are a fine or a number of days in jail. So the wealthy pay the fine (well the really wealthy pay a lawyer and the whole thing is dropped), and the poor do the time - but here they do it under grueling circumstances. While you guys stand around and say they deserve it. Let's just bring back stocks in the public square. Our justice system is based on the idea that it is better to let some guilty go than to wrongly convict one innocent. Well many people in county jail are waiting trial. Some may have just minor offenses, but yall are ready to see hard labor and unsafe temperatures. So you can pay with your health as well. And as we find murders and rapists all the time who DNA proves are innocent - even with eye witness testimony, let's not pretend that there aren't some people in county jail based on mistaken testimony. Or they were innocent, but they took a deal to avoid a longer sentence. I am sure all of these guys do not get a medical certification that they have no conditions that this heat could be lethal. And what about people who need medical services. Hey John, I could see you accidentally not seeing a posted sign and you trespass while rockhounding. Oops, the owner wants to press charges. Looks like you are in tent city. Sorry, no back meds. Oh, and would you mind working this chain gang in 110 degree heat. You are there - so you must deserve it. Or, hey I had a friend that the state trooper brought back to a mini-mart when he was on vacation because he sent his air-head girlfriend in to pay for the gas, and she bought cigarettes and forgot about the gas. Sorry officer, we did not mean to drive off. Oops, the owner has a zero-tolerance policy. My friend goes to tent-city and has a stroke in the heat, and gets degraded by a shit-head like Arpaio. In April 1999, a jury awarded $1.5 million to an inmate denied medical treatment for a perforated ulcer. Tim Griffin, arrested for driving with a suspended license, required several surgeries for the perforated ulcer. There are likely some scum there. And some not-so-scummy. Remember this is county jail. Violent crimes move on to state prison after trial. In some states, anything that gets yo more than 24 months gets sent on to state prison. This sheriff interjects his partisan politics, paints all democrats with one brush, plays the political blame game, makes his little quips on TV. He has got himself a whipping dog, and come near election time he beats that dog within an inch of its life. Only if it was a real dog, you guys would want him in jail. We can all be frustrated about crime and breakdowns in the social system, and the presence of low-life folks among us. But that is no excuse for us to check our brains at the door, or any reason to let a shit-head like this petty demigod do your thinking for you. If this guy would act like a thinking human instead of a loud mouthe tough guy wisecracker, we might get somewhere. We might find what good ideas he has. But he intentionally makes remarck comparing humans to dogs and takes pride in his stance. CNN quotes him as saying, "Canines eat $1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. 'I'm very proud of that too.' " - this is not someone who should hold life n death contol over others. He is dangerous, and all the moreso because he caters to popularist sentiments. Here is another bit of ugly fact: Shoddy electrical construction combined with leaky tents and steady rain has created hazardous conditions that could result in tragedy.
Inmates tell me they routinely see sparks flying from exposed wires leading to overhead fluorescent lights that have gotten soaked in the recent downpours. The light in one tent was hit the other day with such a powerful electrical surge during hard rain that it was ripped from its support bracket and crashed to the floor.
But that's not all.
Open electrical outlets connected to wires unprotected by conduits are strewn across wet concrete floors. Inmates have been sleeping on metal-frame bunks wet from the rains.
These reports of hazardous conditions aren't just the angry fantasies of drenched and disgruntled prisoners. I have obtained dozens of photographs taken inside Arpaio's tent jail in the last couple of weeks documenting the complaints.
There's no way any building inspector worth his clipboard would allow you or me to string up a haphazard maze of unprotected wires and open electrical boxes inside a leaking canvas structure that's used as permanent housing.
The inspector would slap a red tag with "Cease and Desist" in bold letters onto the nearest tent pole.
Unless the proprietor's name is Joe Arpaio.
For 12 years, the state fire marshal has let Arpaio slide with the unsafe conditions inside Tent City. Rather than shutting down the compound for violating the state fire code -- as one inspector urged in June 2002 -- the fire marshal has routinely granted a variance that has allowed Arpaio to keep his most successful publicity stunt open for business.
Arpaio certainly doesn't give a damn whether Tent City, which propelled him to international notoriety and immense political power, poses a serious threat to the safety of thousands of citizens.
That's right: citizens. Most of the folks held in Tent City haven't lost the rights of citizenship because they have been convicted of misdemeanors -- typically DUIs. These small-potatoes inmates are mere props in Arpaio's psychotic quest for attention and power.
Dignity, health and life mean nothing to Outlaw Joe. Inmates have beaten senseless, and several have been killed, while serving their rinky-dink sentences inside Arpaio's tents. In September 2002, state Court of Appeals Judge Jefferson L. Lankford held Arpaio personally liable for the severe beating of one inmate.
In a stinging 26-page opinion, Lankford wrote that the sheriff "admitted knowing about and in fact intentionally designing some conditions at Tent City that created a substantial risk of inmate violence. [There's a] lack of individual security and inmate control inherent in a tent facility [with] the small number of guards, a mixed inmate population subject to overcrowding [and] extreme heat and lack of amenities."
I say breaking fire codes is worse than driving on a suspended license. Lets put Joe in his own jail. The goddess save us from righteous people who smile at corporal punishment.
|
|
rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
|
Post by rallyrocks on Apr 13, 2007 1:58:38 GMT -5
note to self, stay on best behavior when in Maricopa county, AZ....
maybe even stay out of Maricopa County...except I have friends in Wickenburg.
|
|
|
Post by Toad on Apr 13, 2007 4:40:26 GMT -5
I say breaking fire codes is worse than driving on a suspended license. Lets put Joe in his own jail. The goddess save us from righteous people who smile at corporal punishment. If no one is holding Joe accountable for his actions/inactions, that doesn't make tent city a bad idea. It means the lawmakers/bureaucrats/police aren't enforcing the laws on the books - sounds like your beef is with them. I agree, if he is breaking the law, throw him in jail. Maybe breaking fire codes is worse than driving on a suspended license. But maybe the license was suspended for good reason - repeated drunk driving, too many speeding tickets or moving violations (which could include running red lights or whatever). We all hear the stories of some guy that has 4 DUI convictions that continues to drive and then kills a family of 4. Which is worse - some guy that with a bad driving record that may kill innocents or some guy violating building codes that may kill innocents. Sounds like the same boat to me. God save us from those who frown on any punishment.
|
|
|
Post by deb193 on Apr 13, 2007 8:52:31 GMT -5
God save us from those who frown on any punishment. Well technically Jesus frowned on any punishment. ... But I don't. At least not consequences. I also don't believe that if it ain't corporal it ain't punishment. Possibly even major consequences. I don't see much value in corporal punishment - especially when peace officers (or society in general) seems to be taking some grim satisfaction in it; but I am open to proposals of capital punishment. I could go with 3 DUI equals a death penalty. I might even be in favor of forced euthanasia for those with other incurable social disease. Or, involuntary participation in medical experiments. Or, implanted tracking devices for repeat serious offenders. I would consider a proposal that stripped citizenship from unequivocal offenders of certain severe categories. (If no other country would take them in, then they would be euthanasized.) But, I want safeguards to help insure the social disease is incurable, and I want level-headed objective people carrying out justice -- not jerks that can't keep themselves from comparing people to dogs in front of reporters. Or who seem to take some macabre glee in their job. I want it done within our system of laws and with the full set of checks and balances, not by skirting or ignoring our laws. I just don't want to start with the assumption that the system is prefect, that the sheriff and the guards never commit crimes or strip civil rights, and anyone there not only deserves to be there but deserves whatever they get no matter what their crime. Todd, goes for the worst case of a suspended license: an indifferent homicidal drunk. While I consider the most innocent case. My main point is that I think our system is predicated on the consideration of the more innocent case. That is why prosecutors have to make their case, not defendants proving their innocence. Our system uses the presumption of innocence, and prefers to err on the side of not catching every criminal. So we could say that Todd is advocating un-American sentiments - except I suspect he is in the majority. Funny, most Americans never stop to realize that their rash opinions are un-American. I can consider the most-innocent case because that is what our system is supposed to do, and who it is supposed to protect. While the worst-case scenario should always be in mind to help gauge the potential risk to society, I submit it cannot be the presumption of policies without undermining some of our basic tenets of limited state authority. At some level what John said is repulsive. if you got there you deserve to be there and i dont think it should be a hoilday wile your payin your debt to society, no mater what reason put you there after all its called jail not the holiday inn its not supposed to be a vacation your supposed to learn what you did was wrong and that you dont wanna have to go through this again right?-- if they let me have my way there would be no tv no radios and absolutely no comforts at all this way maybe the bad guys would think twice before they do the same dumb thing again haha ... we have a system that sets different penalties for different crimes, but John is Ok with forced labor and depredation no matter what you did to get there. And since when did ordinary jails become a vacation just because they had cable or a weight-room or basic nutrition? If you exaggerate things like that is sure it a lot easier to make your case. ...and the TV was put there in the 1st place as a form of crowd control. There are less fights and other problems when prisoners are not so bored. It is better to pay for a cable channel than to pay the life insurance of a guard who is knifed by a bored prisoner. Personally, I think the observation that some prisoners have things that some non-prisoners cannot afford, should be a call to improve conditions for the general public - not a call to make conditions in jails more sparse. Also, my point about rich and poor remains un-addressed. We already know the system is a little lopsided. Poor and ethnic people are more frequently incarcerated than others for the same crime. Why make it more lopsided. I mean if we know that it is not completely fair who ends up in the cage, why go and make the cage as unpleasant as possible? That only makes it more lopsided. In America elected legislators decided what the range of penalties are for crimes. If the penalty is set at so many days detention, thats what it should be. the facility should be spartan but clean and safe. Some sheriff should not get to unilaterally decide to make the penalty worse, to make the facility unsafe, to make the penalty degradation in addition to detention. IMHO this guy is preying on the fears of citizens. He offers the illusion that they will be safe if he degrades these prisoners, and folks sit back and don't bother to do the harder work of becoming educated and working out solutions to society's problems.
|
|
|
Post by BAZ on Apr 13, 2007 9:48:57 GMT -5
Take a walk through downtown Phoenix at midnight in July, you will see just how much the precious criminals don't care about Sherrif Joe or your life. But when they do get into jail, waaaaaaaa! It's too hot, I have to wear pink underwear, there is only two channels on cable. Screw them, never been to jail, don't want to go and I doubt if I ever will.
|
|
|
Post by sandsman1 on Apr 13, 2007 11:43:32 GMT -5
i agree to disagree but like ya said
While you guys stand around and say they deserve it. Let's just bring back stocks in the public square.
you did have one good thought--- ill bring the hammer and nails and maybe we can get an electrition in to fix the chair so we dont have to feed the murderes anymore -- start zappin the killers like it should be done and the child molesters and there will be room in the prisons so they can close down the tent jail --- like baretta usta say dont do the crime if you cant do the time
|
|
|
Post by Toad on Apr 13, 2007 11:53:13 GMT -5
Jesus is God and God is Justice (and love and a bunch of other things). So technically you are wrong.
Daniel, if I read your message correctly. I think we are on the same page with punishment. We just differ on methods. Sherrif Joe's tent city must not be working any better than any other jail/prison, because it still exists.
That tells me that people will commity crimes no matter what the punishment is. And if Sherrif Joe is is saving the taxpayers thousands a year (?) per inmate. I'm all for it. Yes, he is an *ss for the way he talks about people. And yes, it sucks that innocent people and people that haven't bailed out or gone to trial have to live in such conditions. But life has never been fair, and I would venture that most people in his tent city belong there.
|
|
|
Post by freeform on Apr 13, 2007 16:51:10 GMT -5
trespassing laws are very stick here in AZ. I know people who gone to tent city for a couple nights becasue they were trespassing on private land, which was not marked. No homes, no buildings. But they got caught, the police called the owner and the owner said he was sick of people dumping trash on his property. They were not their dumping, they were there looking for rocks. They spent a two nights in tent city. My father, I love him to death, but he did a stupid thing and was pulled over by Mesa PD. They asked to search his vehicle, he let them. They found 1 marijuana seed which could of been there since the 70's. He spent two nights in tent city. He was not under the influence, even after they tested him. And actually didn’t have to go to tent city until four months later when the state sent him a request in the mail stating that he must go, or pay serious fines and have more points on his license. His is a bad driver, not a drunk driver. But becasue of the no-tolerance state in Arizona. For the seed, he had to go or suffer heavy fines.
The problem doesn’t lie in one part of the system, i.e. tent city. It does lie in all parts. Mel, doing drugs is illegal, even though its a proven fact Alcohol is far more dangerous then marijuana. The point is there are better ways to go about fixing these problems. Instead of locking them up and not only taking up more space and tax paying dollars. Which could be put to use in a more productive since for rehabilitation. Joe is saving money, statistically, becasue the prison are growing here in AZ at a horrendous rate. It costing us more, but at a cheaper price. Which makes me sick.
Sorry Spike, tent city was created due to over populated prisons. It then became a means of public display for prisoners. Becasue there wasn’t anything like it in the USA. Though new now, not really new. Just forgotten about becasue it is inhumane when the system is putting away just as many innocent, or health related problems. Most drug users have a health problem, I know from experience. This problem should not be looked at as a crime. If they are dealing drugs, yes. Its a crime. But users need help, not imprisonment. For anyone that thinks drug use is a crime, please take a look at the drugs your taking, legally. Then look up the amount of harm those drugs are known to cuase. Whose the crimal now?
Also, in Pinal county, we change Police chiefs all the time. There is so much corpution in the AJ polic dept its not funny. There was even a case were a officer had a hit and run off duty here in AJ. The victum had to suffer on many levels becasue the PD tried to cover it up. And Crazy Charls is the only person to run for county sheriff that everyone knowns will do a good job in cleaning up the corptuion. However he cant get elected becasue part of that plan is to put up another tent city. Could all the residents of Pinal county be wrong, even with a crupt PD?
Far all you that support tent city unknownling, try living here for a few years before you make up your mind about what good it does.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
|
Post by Sabre52 on Apr 13, 2007 17:43:31 GMT -5
Shain, Rather than suggest spend some time in a tent city to see how bad it is, I'd suggest folks not commit crimes that result in being sent into a tent city jail . As a good citizen, I don't want to walk a mile in a felons shoes to see how he feels. Often felons are sociopaths and I'm with Baz, to heck with serious felons and all their rights. Repeat felons should certainly be denied citizenship rights as they are not good citizens! Don't plan on doing crimes that would result in getting thrown into jail in the first place. That's simple enough. Of course I'm kinda hardcore on crime. I'd prefer preventing jail overcrowding by using the Chinese method for violent criminals. Shoot them after conviction and charge their family for the bullet. Then, jails are not overcrowded and the extra money can be used for rehabbing and retraining those who are first time criminals so they can learn to be good law abiding citizens. But heck those are just my opinions. Being a resident of touchy feely wussy California, I suppose I'll just get to watch things get worse and worse.......mel
|
|
|
Post by BAZ on Apr 13, 2007 18:43:00 GMT -5
Mel,
Being a former resident of California and having worked graveyard shifts in places like Lynwood, Compton and South Central L.A. I find myself a little less compassionate for criminals and a little more respectful of law enforcment. Getting on the 105 freeway at midnight to leave the fireplace factory I never saw a cop and thought, "Get outta here ya pig!".
Cops and sherrifs are people, just like doctors and priests. Unfortunately there are corrupt people out there, this includes the aforementioned. We can't deprogram humans to be "just be cops" etc. (not yet anyway, oh that is a spooky thought)
I do agree with Shain, a pot seed and a crack rock are two different things. There does have to be some common sense there.
|
|