Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 13, 2007 22:28:26 GMT -5
Baz: I agree with you and Shain regarding the less serious crimes and that should be how the jury and justice system works. It should be tempered with common sense and a certain degree of fairness especially regarding first time or small time offenders. Repeaters, predators, or career criminals though, I have no patience or compassion for at all....mel
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Post by rockyraccoon on Apr 14, 2007 8:26:47 GMT -5
My father, I love him to death, but he did a stupid thing and was pulled over by Mesa PD. They asked to search his vehicle, he let them. They found 1 marijuana seed which could of been there since the 70's. He spent two nights in tent city. He was not under the influence, even after they tested him. And actually didn’t have to go to tent city until four months later when the state sent him a request in the mail stating that he must go, or pay serious fines and have more points on his license. His is a bad driver, not a drunk driver. But becasue of the no-tolerance state in Arizona. For the seed, he had to go or suffer heavy fines. shain how bad was your dad driving that they felt the need to search his car and then hold him on 1 seed? he must drive like my best friend! she got a letter from the state saying if she got another ticket they would consider her a hazard and pull her license. i love her but i am only riding with her if it is a last resort and then i'm howling from the minute i get in until we arrive at our destination. i take all the fun out of that crazy driving until she has to drive right. she doesn't smoke pot or drink but she slung a full size chair out of the back of a truck on a flat and straight piece of highway. you said he would get "more points" on his license. how many does it take to quit it! i don't think the pot seed was the real problem just something they could legally use. no offense here - just something to think about. i won't ride with my dad either! kim
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Post by freeform on Apr 16, 2007 14:16:49 GMT -5
Mel, I was implying to stay in Phoenix and the surrounding metro, not tent city. Sorry for that confusion. Its a proven fact more felony’s become repeats becasue of how the system works. The drug users ive know to go into jail, only come out worse for the ware. Not better.
Kim, my dad is a bad driver. Mainly a speeder. As is over 75% of the folks around the valley. IN mesa, a cop can pull you over for looking at him and will state you were suspicion looking, that’s why he pulled you over. If you deny them to search your vehicle becasue they asked. It puts up a big flag to them, and they will hold you for hours until they are able to search your car. And will even bring in a dog which if the dog thinks their drugs or weapons, its OK for them to search your car. They don’t need a warrant in these cases. This happens often in Mesa. (were he was pulled over) This also happens in Gilbert allot too. If they cant find a crime, they will waste hours of your day.
Case in point when I got in an accident a couple years ago in mesa and lost control of the brakes during a rainstorm and rear-ended the person in front of me. Two nice kids around the age of 18. The cops let me go, but for some reason held the kids. I don’t know what ever happened to them. But the parents did show up before the cops dismissed me. Something was not right by the look on the parents face. I think one of the kids got arrested. What for, I do not know. But from common since, I suspected is was drug related just by the parents reaction when they were talking with the police. The cops found it important to harass these kids, vers me for causing the accident. I just don’t understand police logic I guess. I am glad they didn’t harass me even though they wouldn’t of found anything, I knew it would of wasted the rest of my day. But why would they do such to the victims of this accident? And the state found me at fault for the accident, which I took a class to remove the points off my license. However, I have a strong feeling the person/s I hit, suffered much worse giving the nature of Mesa PD.
They can also wait to issue a ticket or fine, until weeks later, through the courts and not the cop who pulled you over and is the only witness to your crime. Which is only a money reason and nothing else. This is what happened in my dads case. They let him go when he got pulled over. But he still ended up in tent city for two nights. I agree, and no offence taken at all. You're asking the wrong guy, I don’t have any points on my license currently. Arizona is a no-tolerance state. And the problem is not the seed, but how the system works. And tent city is a reminder to the local politicians that money is to be made off criminals. Why else would he of had to spend two night for a speeding ticket? And why else are some many companies using prison labor to move their product or service here in AZ?
As the main reason for his fine by going to tent city, according to the ticket the court sent. Was reckless driving. The potseed was mentioned in the report, but wasn’t part of the supposed underlying reason for the fine. My parents tried to dispute this, but becasue he had the option to pay the $2500 fine, instead of going to tent city for two nights. They have no case.
And Im not saying we shouldn’t have prisons or police. All I am saying is there are better ways to go about certain social problems, then just locking them up. Tent city to many is all about locking everybody that has any little mistake in their life. Not just the real criminals and bad people they often let go. If anyone remembers hearing about the Phoenix serial rapist? They caught him a number of months ago. Though allot of his victims and family don’t think they caught the right guy. As the rapist is still committing his crimes, currently. Mainly in the South east cities around Phoenix. Something both the news and police are not talking about. But it is going on still.
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Post by deb193 on Apr 16, 2007 14:33:57 GMT -5
Jesus is God and God is Justice (and love and a bunch of other things). So technically you are wrong. There is god's justice, which occurs in the next world. But even the harshest old testiment "eye for an eye" was a message of restraint - meaning if someone pokes out your eye, the MOST you can do is poke their eye (as opposed to kill their whole family). The new testimet message is "turn the other cheek" and "forgive", so the Judeo/Christian god (aka Jehova, Jesus) technically does not condone any form of man punishing man.
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Post by deb193 on Apr 16, 2007 14:42:56 GMT -5
i agree to disagree but like ya said While you guys stand around and say they deserve it. Let's just bring back stocks in the public square. you did have one good thought--- ill bring the hammer and nails and maybe we can get an electrition in to fix the chair so we dont have to feed the murderes anymore -- start zappin the killers like it should be done and the child molesters and there will be room in the prisons so they can close down the tent jail --- like baretta usta say dont do the crime if you cant do the time You continue to confuse the kinds of criminals that got to state and federal prisons with the type that go to county jail. One size does not fit all. Any while you are zapping the murderers, don't forget that every month DNA proves some death-row inmates are innocent, every year we have a scandle where a crime-investigator or crime-lab is found to have lied or faked evidence. Sure, this is a small ercentage of cases, but you have already zapped them. Too late. And lets not forget that several states have suspended death penalties because they found that they could not administer them to black and white in an even and objective manner. I think the system would need to be a lot more perfect for us to even consider being as rash and judgemental as you want to be.
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desertdweller
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2006
Posts: 1,803
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Post by desertdweller on Apr 17, 2007 2:40:27 GMT -5
For all of those that think Arpaio is saving the state of Arizona any of the tax payers money, please find out a little more about our Sheriff. Below are just a few paragraphs from some stories that have been published either in the New Times or one of Arizona's news papers.
Jailers Show a Paraplegic Who's Boss: Richard Post was taken to jail in his wheelchair for mouthing off in a bar. Joe Arpaio's detention officers saw him as such a threat, they strapped him into a medieval restraint chair--and broke his neck. (1/23/97) New Times
Richard Post never even got his chance in court, nor did he get to see a judge, I think he was 21 years old and mentally handicapped, not to mention physically handicapped.
Keeping 'em in Stitches: Crohn's disease sufferer Damon Dreckmeier was sentenced to 111 days in the county jail. Denied a few dollars' worth of daily prescription medication, he was rushed to the hospital five times, undergoing two surgeries. Taxpayers will pay for his treatment, estimated at $300,000, and--undoubtedly--his mistreatment. (7/24/97) New Times
Womens Group Against Sheriff Arpaio: Mothers against Arpaio is a group that was formed by mothers and women (but not limited to) that have had loved ones who have been seriously violated by Sheriff Joe Arpaio Independent Media Center 3/10/2004
The World's Most Expensive Sheriff: If it concerns the money, the fun stops. That must experience now also the US Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Threatens the man, who calls himself proudly America's Toughest Sheriff, a complaint at a value of 1.375 billion US dollars,
Advocacy group disavows 'America's Toughest Sheriff': After listing Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio as one of the top Italian-American crime fighters in the last century, a Washington-based advocacy group has now disavowed him. ABC 3/15/2004
Sheriff Joe Arpaio scratched from Sons of Italy report all mention of Arpaio had been stripped from the report and OSIA's press release. During a telephone conversation with De Sanctis on Monday, she said she received "information about Arpaio's methods that resulted in the death and serious injury to several people in his jails waiting for their trials." Sonoran News 4/1/2004
Joe Enhancement Fund: Sheriff Arpaio used jail-enhancement funds to pay for a lawsuit and videos of his TV appearances. (2/8/96) New Times
Arpaio Tries to Plug Leaks: Sheriff's Office suspends, transfers officers suspected of talking to New Times . (5/23/96) New Times
I'm not 100% positive but the Richard Post lawsuit alone cost the tax payers somewhere in the ballpark of 7 or 8 million..... Which Good ol' Joe said their insurance would cover, that wasn't true. One other thing, I think their insurance deductible went from 1 million to 5 million per incident....What does that tell you.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio: He built the tent city jail because of overcrowding in the regular jails.
Truth: To insure there were enough inmates for the much publicized tent city jail he closed an entire floor of the First Avenue Jail.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio: He has saved the taxpayers millions of dollars.
Truth: He has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars in legal fees, lawsuits, attorneys fees, settlements, judgments, photographs of himself, videos of himself, and maintaining his personal public relations staff.
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Post by Toad on Apr 17, 2007 3:53:34 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that htere are lawsuits and problems. Sheriff Joe appears to be an idiot with a Napolean complex. Thinks he's a rockstar. So all the thousands of dollars he saves on 99% of the inmates gets flushed down the toilet with the 1% he screws up on.
Another good idea ruined by a moron.
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Post by deb193 on Apr 19, 2007 1:00:38 GMT -5
We ahve returned to my initial point that whatever reform (or spartenizing) of jasls is to become policy, we need someone competent to run it without creating worse problems. I said it before and I'll say it again Arapis is a sh*t head!
And it makes me sad to hear folks here cheering him on.
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Post by lbowman1 on Apr 19, 2007 6:44:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I do believe in severe punishment. Here locally in Charlotte, North Carolina the current in thing to do among street gangs is take a shot at a cop for no other reason than they are a cop. When they want to show off to the other gang members how tough they are they look for a police officer to shoot at. You may have heard recently about the 2 officers that were murdered here and there have been shots fired at other officers since. The kids that killed the officers awhile back actually seem proud of what they have done as if killing a cop is a badge of honor.
My cure for the situation--public hangings. Watching a couple convicted gang members twitch at the end of ropes might make cop killing look a little less fun and glamorous. Making jails into resort hotels is only making things worse.
Lori
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KG1960
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2008
Posts: 512
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Post by KG1960 on Apr 19, 2007 8:20:49 GMT -5
Remember some people are in jail awaiting trial and haven't been found guilty yet. Some of those end up being found not guilty.
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Post by lbowman1 on Apr 20, 2007 8:07:04 GMT -5
Jail isnt a storage warehouse for people awaiting trial. Think of it as preliminary prison rather than the Comfort Inn. There's too many people thinking they can do whatever they want and have a lawyer get them out of it while they wait at the local jail resort. You can't make jail a pleasant experience. If you do people don't mind going there for a stay every once in a while like planning a vacation. It has to be unpleasant to encourage people to think twice before they break the law. People aren't born bad. They learn to be that way. Likewise they can learn that it's in their best interest not to break the law.
True, the people in there haven't been convicted yet and there might be some in there that don't deserve it but it has to be the same experience for everyone in there. That way everyone inside and out understands that it's not a place you want to be and nobody should do stuff that will get them sent there. It might be a really unpleasant experience for the people that don't deserve it but at the same time the common knowledge that jail is a bad place might be what's keeping them and their loved ones safe from people that do consider breaking the law. It's not a perfect system but nothing in this world is. Still it's the best that we've got.
Lori
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Apr 20, 2007 12:53:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I do believe in severe punishment. Here locally in Charlotte, North Carolina the current in thing to do among street gangs is take a shot at a cop for no other reason than they are a cop. When they want to show off to the other gang members how tough they are they look for a police officer to shoot at. You may have heard recently about the 2 officers that were murdered here and there have been shots fired at other officers since. The kids that killed the officers awhile back actually seem proud of what they have done as if killing a cop is a badge of honor.
My cure for the situation--public hangings. Watching a couple convicted gang members twitch at the end of ropes might make cop killing look a little less fun and glamorous. Making jails into resort hotels is only making things worse..
Lori, I think most people will agree with you about gang violence or about random shooting of innocents whether they be police or civilian. I think it is wrong to treat a traffic violater like a killer, makes absolutely no sense. Smoking a J is not in the same league as rape or child abuse. I'll bet you can arrest more than half the drivers in the country for speeding but I wouldn't want to treat them like killers. I don't know how you drive and I'm not saying you have ever broken any laws but there is a better than 50% chance that every person passing through that area belongs in the tent city I do not want to coddle criminals but I think we should have some restraint about how we deal with petty criminals and casual traffic violaters
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desertdweller
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2006
Posts: 1,803
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Post by desertdweller on Apr 25, 2007 0:41:18 GMT -5
Good grief Lori, I'm grateful you are not a judge or have authority over something like that.
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