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Post by Alice on Feb 28, 2005 19:01:46 GMT -5
I have tumbled rocks in the past using a very basic instruction booklet for kids.
After joining this forum, I am noticing a lot of different "recipes" to polish rocks.... now I have a few questions.
Borax Vs Ivory soap laundry detergent / Bar soap.
Is it recommended to wash your rocks and barrel with one of these Every time I change grits? What if my grit has turned to mud and I just want to recharge the same grit? Do I rinse out the mud, tumble the rocks with borax, and start all over by puting in the same grit grade in the barrel? or do I just add more grit to the mud?
Also, which is better? Borax or Ivory? Can't I use my regular goats milk bar soap with pumice (shredded of course), or cheap liquid laundry detergent like Cheer or Gain? And what about Oxy Clean? Has anyone ever tried that?
Last question... Should I add soap (borax or ivory) to my grit while tumbling? if so, how much do I add, and what stage should I start adding soap to my grit? (Right from the start? only with fine grit? during the last polishing stage?, etc...) Or should I only wash at the end of every cycle?
I have a ton more questions, but I'll start new threads as they are not really related to soap. Alice
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Post by Cher on Feb 28, 2005 21:40:57 GMT -5
I don't do it between the first two stages, but I do wash between 500, 1000 and polish. You'd be amazed at the amount of stuff that comes out in the wash but it's entirely up to you. You don't have to if you don't want to. You should remove most of it yes. The thing is, you can't check your rocks unless they are well rinsed off so you might as well clean out the barrel. You can leave a little of the slurry (mud) in there then add water to finish filling it but not too much. You don't want it to get too thick. Don't know that any of it is better but you don't want something that's going to foam up a lot. You can, it won't hurt it. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. If I'm tumbling mostly jasper, then I add a little. Supposedly some jaspers can create gas which will build up in the barrel. If you check your barrels everyday, you'd see if it was bulging or not. I haven't noticed anything like this but I know some have.
Cher
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Post by docone31 on Feb 28, 2005 22:47:57 GMT -5
Ok, it is not always neccessary to eliminate the slurry when recharging grits. The slurry aids in the polishing process. When changing grits, you must eliminate all traces of the precious grit. That is why certain soaps, and wetting agents are called for. I prefer borax to Ivory. Ivory is better than other soaps. I find borax to be the most useful. Dump the slurry, rinse, scrub the stones, clean the bbl., and run a charge of fresh water and borax for one day. I also check water hardness for the tumbling process. I prefer neutral ph and hardness for optimum tumbling. Others with hard water have found using distilled water significantly aids in the process to polish.
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Post by cookie3rocks on Feb 28, 2005 23:12:16 GMT -5
I gotta go with Doc. Between grits, a goog cleaning is necessery and if you are using the same barrel/bowl absolutely essential. Borax for 24 hours can't be beat. The first time I let a batch run for a full 24 hrs. + in Borax I was amazed how much grit was released. And it was like adding another phase. Obviously, I can't say enough about Borax ;D Good luck!
cookie
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Post by Alice on Feb 28, 2005 23:15:40 GMT -5
Thanks Rosebud and docone.
aren't the coarse and the fine pretty much the same thing except one is much finer then the other? If they are the same thing, then why must you completely eliminate all traces of the coarse? By the time the coarse is through with it's cycle, it's pretty much the same grit as the fine. Isn't it?
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Post by Alice on Feb 28, 2005 23:18:32 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your experience Cookie. I like learning from other peoples experiences rather then learning the hard way... and wasting a perfectly good batch of grit and rocks. Alice
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Post by gaetzchamp on Mar 1, 2005 0:06:51 GMT -5
Alice-
I was given some great advice by someone on this board (I'm pretty sure it was connrock) and that was to put in a little BEFORE you clean out the barrel and recharge. If you run your load in a soapy bath for 15 minutes or so, that really helps with the cleaning process.
I wholeheartedly agree with that tip. I've been throwing in a cup or 2 of hot water and a scoop of Borax and let them hot tub themselves clean. It really works and saves time.
Give 'er a try
Gaetz
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Post by guest on Mar 1, 2005 5:14:41 GMT -5
Notice that "borax" makes detergents work better--Left alone it has no cleaning properties..Ivory Snow is a gentle detergent..This is what you want for burnishing..
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Post by creativeminded on Mar 1, 2005 9:44:28 GMT -5
If I need to recharge I don't rinse my all of the rocks in my tumbler I rinse off a few to see if they are taking shape well. I do wash my rocks in the tumbler with borax between all stages, because I have to use 2 of my tumbler for two of my stages. I have six stages including the polish. Tami
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Post by Cher on Mar 1, 2005 10:49:26 GMT -5
That's been a big debate Alice. I look at it this way, but this is just my opinion and how I do it. I think everyone here has listened to other's suggestions but you always end up developing your own style and do it the way it makes you happy. Don't forget, it's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun.
From stage 1 (60/90) to stage 2 (120/200) I know I pour X amount of grit in the barrel. I know when I take it out, that grit isn't there anymore so I don't worry about moving it on to the second stage without running it in a special wash. The rocks do get rinsed several times in an ice cream bucket before they are moved on. I also inspect each rock to see that it has been shaped enough. Only the ones I'm happy with are moved on to the second stage. If there's only a tiny blemish, the rock goes into the dremel bucket before moving on. I have barrels for each of the 5 stages that I run. When they come out of stage 2, they are thoroughly washed in the ice cream bucket then rocks and pellets are put back in the tumbler with very hot water and borax and run for several hours. This is done between each of the remaining stages.
Another thing ... if you use pellets or whatever as filler in a stage ... DON'T use it for the next stage, use new ones and keep them in separate bags or containers marked for each individual stage.
Cher
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Mar 1, 2005 11:08:48 GMT -5
What if my grit has turned to mud and I just want to recharge the same grit? Do I rinse out the mud, tumble the rocks with borax, and start all over by puting in the same grit grade in the barrel? or do I just add more grit to the mud?
Alice: Some mud is good, even desireable to make a nice slurry for grinding....too much mud makes a very thick slurry that I believe will retard the grinding action
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Post by Alice on Mar 1, 2005 15:45:32 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your input. Now I have a question for the Canadians of the forum. Is there a Borax brand name that you can recommend? I remember as a kid seeing boxes marked "BORAX" right across the front, but apparently it no longer exists here. Something about having borax put into our food products as preservatives. They either gave it a different name, or they took it off the shelves everywhere (the sales person couldn't tell me much more). I've checked shoppers drug mart (Pharmaprix in Quebec), Maxi (Pretty much the same as Loblaws... owned by the same people), Canadian tire, and Jean Couteau. Came up with nothing. Found lots of Ivory snow though
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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 1, 2005 18:55:03 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your input. Now I have a question for the Canadians of the forum. Is there a Borax brand name that you can recommend? I remember as a kid seeing boxes marked "BORAX" right across the front, but apparently it no longer exists here. Something about having borax put into our food products as preservatives. They either gave it a different name, or they took it off the shelves everywhere (the sales person couldn't tell me much more). I've checked shoppers drug mart (Pharmaprix in Quebec), Maxi (Pretty much the same as Loblaws... owned by the same people), Canadian tire, and Jean Couteau. Came up with nothing. Found lots of Ivory snow though Are you from Quebec? My glass teacher has a small container of Borax, it looks like an "Essaim" brand (Familiprix/Jean Coutu?) I'll ask her where she gets it - I think it' in the laundry section of the grocery store (not sure, haven,t looked, I'm using a shaved Ivory bar) Where are you from? I'm in the Outaouais!
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Post by Alice on Mar 1, 2005 19:58:40 GMT -5
Hi Tweety I'm in Ile Perrot, Quebec. Just off of the west Island part of Montreal (literally). I've gone to the grocery store, drug store and hardware store. Nothing. I enquired about it at the drug store and the lady said they probably changed the name or it was taken off the shelves entirely. Some Bozo decided that it would be a good idea to add it into our foods as a preservative (like in Jams, etc...). I did a search on it, and sure enough it was true. Here's a link if you're interested in reading. www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/invenq/inform/20040714e.shtmlIf Ontario has it, there would be no problems in me picking it up somewhere in or near Cornwall. I may be taking a trip to Ottawa this coming weekend (weather permitting). But I doubt that I'll be able to find it anywhere in Canada. I'm wondering if Lye or Oxy Clean might do the job. But oxy clean tends to make bubbles and might make my barrel explode. There has to some sort of washing detergent like Borax around. Yes, please do ask your teacher where it can be obtained. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks Alice
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Post by docone31 on Mar 1, 2005 20:03:41 GMT -5
Do not use OxyClean or anything like it. Borax is 20 Mule Team Borax. It is laundry soap. If you get 20 Mule Team Borax, you have it. It should be in soaps in the grocery store.
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Post by Alice on Mar 1, 2005 20:23:17 GMT -5
Hi Docone I'll look again, but 20 Mule team borax doesn't tell me anything. Seems as though anything stated as "borax" has been taken off the shelves.
Could also be under a different name as we have language laws here, and 20 Mule Team is English. If the company doesn't agree to advertise in both languages, then they are definitely not allowed to sell their products here. Sometimes companies are asked to change their names entirely here in Quebec, because the French translation could come off as improper or offensive.
That's why I'm wondering if perhaps Ontario has it.
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Mar 2, 2005 9:29:10 GMT -5
Thanks Rosebud and docone. aren't the coarse and the fine pretty much the same thing except one is much finer then the other? If they are the same thing, then why must you completely eliminate all traces of the coarse? By the time the coarse is through with it's cycle, it's pretty much the same grit as the fine. Isn't it? Hey Alice, as you've been told, everyone develops their own system that works for them. I personally do not worry about grit contamination that much. I try to keep things clean and separate, but I don't worry if a little grit embedded in the rubber barrel moves to the next level. I have spent a lot of time examining rocks with my loupe and have not found any evidence that "large" grit is damaging anything. Silicon carbide grit breaks down and can't stay there forever. I should also note that I run my grits for a longer period than a lot of people do. If you run your grit until there is none left, then you should be okay. If you run 7 or 8 days and have grit left, then reduce the amount of grit you use next time. Of course none of this is true when it comes to polishing. To polish, ALL grit must be out of the barrel. It's even more important that the rocks don't carry any grit over to the polish in their pits, cracks, crevices or whatever. Keeping that grit out can be tricky to say the least as prepolish grit is very small and can fit into some very small voids. My 2 cents. Ron
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 2, 2005 10:23:13 GMT -5
Another thing you could look for is ROACH POWDER- We used to use it (borax) to control cockroaches- Seems it sticks to their feet and they can't get around- I guess they then try to clean their feet and ingest it which i guess kills them? Just watch for pesticides-
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69beeper
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 377
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Post by 69beeper on Mar 2, 2005 13:02:57 GMT -5
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Post by Alice on Mar 2, 2005 16:54:20 GMT -5
Thanks Beeper Nothing remotely similar to that around here. Think I'll just end up using cascade or ivory. The turn out might not end up being the same, but it'll have to do. Alice
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