WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Mar 3, 2005 0:16:22 GMT -5
Hi, people. I've been working on my first load of rock for the last few weeks....it's mostly red jasper, with some quartz and petrified wood thrown in. All of the rock was picked up in the same location, is heavily silica-fied, and of the same general hardness. Many of the rocks were chosen intitially for their rounded shapes more than for color. They went through a coarse grind for 2 weeks and came out beautifully smooooooth. They already had a nice sheen to them and felt great in my hand. (Yes, I fondle my rocks). The rocks were rinsed thoroughly, and the barrels were sprayed out with a high pressure sprayer, scrubbed with a scrunge, then washed in Palmolive (no phosphates) dish soap. I was pretty sure everything was squeaky-clean. Note: I ran 2 initial loads of the same rock - using 80 grit in both of my 6 # barrels. Ok, so the 2 loads were then combined and went into a (I thought...) clean barrel for phase 2 -medium grit - for another week. I removed the stones, placed them into a stainless steel strainer and once again rinsed them thoroughly. I then placed them back in the barrel, and ran them through a burnish/cleaning phase for about 4 hours in water and 3 tsp Ivory Snow. To my dismay many of them came out of burnish pitted, chipped, cracked... AND some of them have definite linear scratches on them. Is this a grit residue problem? I didn't want to believe that I needed a separate barrel for each phase (waaaah) but I'm going out tomorrow to get a second tumbler so I can keep 4 barrels in various phases going simultaneously with no cross-contamination. Is it possible that the metal collander scratched my rocks? Back into coarse they go - I'm crushed. Susan : (
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Post by Alice on Mar 3, 2005 0:38:16 GMT -5
I could be wrong NM (I'm pretty new at this myself), but just from the sounds of it, it sounds like you needed a filler in your barrel.
From all that I've read through out the net, your barrel should be 1/2 to 5/8 full at the start.
At the end of the first stage you will notice that your barrel isn't quite as full as it used to be (because the rocks have worn down). That's when you need a filler to fill it back up to the line you originally started (to avoid banging up against eachother).
When you have a full barrel ( 1/2 - 5/8 full), the rocks don't have much of a distance to fall, so they tend to just rub against each other... but as your rocks get smaller, there's more space in the barrel, and they don't rub any more, they tend to crash up against each other, break, crack, and gouge. So a filler (like plastic beads, walnut shells, etc...) fills that "gap"
Hope that makes sense.
Again, I could be totally wrong on this. But that's my theory on what happened. Alice
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Post by puppie96 on Mar 3, 2005 0:47:43 GMT -5
You don't need separate barrels for each grit, that was not the problem.
As to what the problem was. Well, I guess if you put it in the wash cycle, there was less rock, and the plain water wasn't thick and cushioning like the slurry, they might have banged each other up. Or, the pores were there all along but disguised by an accumulation of sludge that got washed away (this happens.) Unless your load had gotten really, really small, I'd be surprised if they got this bashed up from tumbling alone, although it's definitely right to put in filler to keep the load size up.
I think it's an unlucky break, not something that you brought on yourself, if that's any help.
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Post by docone31 on Mar 3, 2005 0:50:16 GMT -5
I used four bbls. Hurricane Charley ate my tumbler so I am restricted to faceting. The pitting might be evidence of needing to tumble more in coarse. I do like to tumble full, 3/4ths at least, and I do like to build up a reasonably thick slurry. The pitting, and scratches might just be they needed to tumble more, perhaps in 220. The grit breaks down and gets finer the more it tumbles. Unless there were some intact grains and they stayed solid for a while, I do not think they were the culprit. Usually, the cross contamination shows up in the pre, or polish stage. Throw em back in 220, and have at it.
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JC
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2004
Posts: 107
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Post by JC on Mar 3, 2005 4:08:27 GMT -5
I've had some mook jasper running for a month. Everytime that I re-charged or washed I was noticing small flakes in the barrel. This was in 80# and I hadn't placed any beads in the barrels. When I thought the rocks had reached the correct state of grind after about a month I carefully inspected them. I was surprised to see results similar to yours. Small chips were in many of the perfectly rounded otherwise stones. Needles to say the entire batch is back in 80# WITH beads this time. I'll have smaller rocks in the end but better results.
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Mar 3, 2005 8:44:59 GMT -5
Hey JC, 80 grit is really only used for shaping the rocks. If you are dealing with surface imperfections, you'd be better off to move them to 220 and keep them there till the surface cleans up. You won't lose so much rock that way.
Ron
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Post by creativeminded on Mar 3, 2005 9:55:36 GMT -5
I use 4 barrels and 6 stages the first two barrels I use for two different grits and the last two barresls I use for tripoli and polish. Instead of using a pressure hose, you might want to put the rocks back in the barrel and run them for an hour in borax, to get the excess grit out. I don't think your metal strainer is the culpret for the scratches, I have used a metal strainer for about a year and have not had any problems. Tami
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 3, 2005 10:27:09 GMT -5
Sounds like a classic case of rock killing rock ;D- I have experienced the same things- now I run Pellets in the prepolish and polish stage- I put in the rocks, prepolish (or polish) and water- then fill the barrel to within a half inch of the top with plastic pellets- this works well for me- Usually rocks that chip and fracture had those defects to begin with- and tumbling just brings out the flaws (as well as the beauty) in them- somebody on the board here (may Doc?) uses sugar to thicken the slurry so there is less potential for damage- I tried sawdust once but that was a total waste of time- the pellets work very well for me- oh and the scratches did not come from the metal strainer- even the highest quality stainless is only gonna be a 5.5 to 6 on the mohs whereas your quartz is 7 Perhaps some Harder matarial snuck into the mix?
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JC
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2004
Posts: 107
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Post by JC on Mar 3, 2005 10:42:48 GMT -5
Hey JC, 80 grit is really only used for shaping the rocks. If you are dealing with surface imperfections, you'd be better off to move them to 220 and keep them there till the surface cleans up. You won't lose so much rock that way. Ron Thanks for the tip. What are your definitions of a surface impefection?
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Post by INPUT on Mar 3, 2005 12:03:52 GMT -5
Hey, thanks everyone for your input. I don't think it was an issue of load shortage. My barrels started out 2/3 full. I added rocks and recharged weekly. After 2 weeks in coarse grind, I combined the 2 finished loads into 1 barrel (about 3/4 full) for the medium grit stage, and the rocks came out of medium looking really good. I liked the satin finish I got, even without having gone through a polish phase. They were really smooth, natural looking. The problem occurred while in burnish, which I basically did just for cleaning purposes. I think the lack of cushioning theory is a possibility, with the soapy water being less dense or thick than the slurry, and the rocks maybe crashing around a bit more. Next time I will try pellets and Borax. Some of these rocks will go back into coarse, as they are pretty chipped, and the ones that are just scratched will go back into medium when I have enough to make another load. Anything that pitted I'll probably toss, especially if the color isn't that great, 'cuz I'm assuming they're softer rocks. It's just disappointing to see this after 3 weeks. That's where my patience level will have to improve. I'll try to send photos if I ever get 'em done. Today is the first sunny day I've had off in about 2 months, so I am going agate collecting. I feel like I live in Seattle! All you guys in NM or AZ will know what I mean - rain, rain and more rain. Later - and thanks again. Susan
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WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Mar 3, 2005 12:06:50 GMT -5
Geez - I forgot to log in. That last post was me. Does the tumbling itself tend to make the rocks more brittle than they were when they started out? S
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Mar 3, 2005 12:10:34 GMT -5
Hey Susan, here in Michigan the weather has been absolutely terrible. We've had more snow than we've had in several years. And it just won't stop. Got another foot a couple of days ago. It's really starting to pile up. My dog, who was so excited to see the first snowfall of the winter, doesn't want to go outside to do her jobs! I feel so sorry for her when sees going with just her head sticking out of the snow.
Ron
ps. Lake levels are up substantialy though. We really needed the moisture. Just wish I could've been somewhere else while it happened! Maybe I'll move to Tahiti.
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WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Mar 3, 2005 12:17:51 GMT -5
NM has been suffering from a horrid drought for the last 4 years. Wildfires, bark beetles are killing our trees. In December my little brother came out from Wisconsin to visit me, and he brought rain. That was nearly 3 months ago and it hasn't stopped. LOL. Actually, the true explanation is that it's coming in from the Gulf... I've been trying to get down to SE Arizona to check out the fire agate collecting locations, but Arizona and the Gila areas have turned into mud. Roads washed out, etc. I'm waiting for a few good days of sun so I can head out for some collecting. Today I must be satisfied with LOCAL ROCK. (Still very pretty, though). Bye - S
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 3, 2005 14:29:27 GMT -5
Geez- the weather stinks everywhere! We have over 2 feet of snow and more on the way! But today the sun is shining (all of 23 degrees) I miss Spring! But you know what they say March- in like a lion- out like a madder cold wet lion!
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