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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 17, 2005 16:29:33 GMT -5
If I want to use a dremel on my stones to smooth/shape them would it be a good idea to use those "extension" pieces to attach to the dremel? (the ones that you can use to reach tight spaces). As this is the only part used underwater and it is pretty far away from the power source would this be better to guard against shock?
Another question: after shaping my stones with a dremel, would they have to go back into 60/90 or could they go to 220 (Is this dependant on the type of sanding bit I use?) I've read that silicone carbide bit may be better in that it doesn't melt like the diamond tip would - is this true?
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Mar 17, 2005 16:59:06 GMT -5
I had a set of 60 grit diamonds that I bought at a local swap meet and they didn't seem to do too much. Maybe I should get some 100 grit instead (sometimes a finer diamond will smooth more efficiently). I just get a bowl of water and just submerge the diamond just enough to draw a nice bead of water around itself and stay wet.
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Post by docone31 on Mar 17, 2005 17:39:16 GMT -5
As with a any tool, any extension bit will increase the amount of error in its use. In the case of a bit, the chatter might become walk.
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Mar 17, 2005 18:07:32 GMT -5
Chatter, that's the right word. My "superaggresive" 60 grit bits don't seem to grind but instead "bounce" on the rock. In dentistry, when I use a course diamond bur, it needs to spin at 100,000+ RPM with tons of water to properly cut a tooth. If you put in a slower speed handpiece that spins at 20,000 RPM, it doesn't do much. I'm not sure what RPM a Dremel spins (I'd guess around 10-20,000 RPM) but I'd say a finer grit diamond is in order.
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Post by docone31 on Mar 17, 2005 19:10:05 GMT -5
Hey Voodoo, a dentist. Basically a jeweler with much higher recquirements. Perhaps one of the toughest jobs I could imagine. Your medium is different than stones. Enamel of the tooth, and the dentin recquire different entry/cut angles. Your bits have no torque, you can stop them with your fingers at full speed. Except for the low speed cable grinder I have had used on me on occasion. You also, cannot flood the entry site like stones. The theory is identical, except dental tools will not work well with stones, or gold or silver. Stone cutting needs pressure and speed. The stone chips like enamel and it can blend into the tool like enamel, however you can position the piece to be cut unlike drilling into a tooth. I do not know how you guys do that. With all the stress, the PATIENT, and the focus needed. Wow. Everybody is using Dremels for shaping. I prefer copper discs loaded with grit. I much prefer slower speeds for shaping. I have found it too hard to not put waves in shaping with dremel burrs. Even when I repair gold, and silver, I have found the burr digs in. With the diamond bits, you need speed or the plating self destructs. I use copper wire, either 14/2, or 12/2 romex. I work corundum grit into the wire, put a clay well around where I am working and fill it with grit and water. As the copper wears off, more grit is introduced and the wear area remains the same as the original cut. For general grinding of stones, I use a bench grinder and a coffee cup. For precise grinding I CA an aluminum dowel to a stone and grind that way. I dip frequently as the heat will break the bond of the CA. I just had all my teeth pulled. They had gotten frozen and shattered the roots and the surrouding jaw. It was a mess and I am glad they are gone. I was ten years healing from the incident. Is there any way to short out those chips without removing the teeth?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 18, 2005 9:50:51 GMT -5
Most Dremels at high speed spin at 35,000 RPM- As doc stated you need speed and torque to cut rock- Here is the problem with Dremel bits- The overheat in a milisecond- So Dremel use must be done slowly (let the bit do the work and don't put pressure on it) And keep it cool- I melted a diamond bit drill some ceramic- it just disappeared! Took a low speed Mason bit to it and it cut the ceramic like butter (very high torque) What I did wrong was to force the dremel bit! You cannot force them (which as Doc pointed out is why you get that uneven bounce on the surface) So tweet- if you use the dremel- work slow- keep the stone wet (when it starts to heat up you can see the water evaporate- at this point it is too hot!) and let the speed of the dremel do the work! Oh and the extentions will not only slow down the bit (just from the friction) and cause the tool to run a lot hotter- so keep that in mind when working with them! I have 3 types of bits for mine- the orange Silicon carbide bits don't work real good (for me at least) the blue aluminium oxide work pretty good (but very slowly) and the diamond work great (but heat up VERY FAST) I use a spray bottle of water and make 1 pass with the dremel- then spray then 1 pass with the dremel then spray- I also keep a shallow pan of water handy
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Post by Cher on Mar 18, 2005 10:31:56 GMT -5
If I want to use a dremel on my stones to smooth/shape them would it be a good idea to use those "extension" pieces to attach to the dremel? (the ones that you can use to reach tight spaces). As this is the only part used underwater and it is pretty far away from the power source would this be better to guard against shock? Another question: after shaping my stones with a dremel, would they have to go back into 60/90 or could they go to 220 (Is this dependant on the type of sanding bit I use?) I've read that silicone carbide bit may be better in that it doesn't melt like the diamond tip would - is this true? Hi Tweet, I have one a flex shaft for mine but don't care for it so I do my shaping just with the dremel itself. What you need is a low sided (maybe an inch) container. I have this black thing from a boston market meal, it's perfect for doing this. Work near the edge so for the most part, the dremel itself is over the table, not the water. Hold the dremel with the bur under water in one hand, rock in other. Keeping the bur under water keeps it clean and cool and it will last a long time if you do it right. Work a small area at a time using very light pressure. I mean like you're barely touching it. Don't think "the harder I push the faster it will grind" because all you do is ruin the burs. If your worried about the water, then just dip the rock and work over the table. As far as grit, I use 40 grit and I love it. Don't have any problems with it chattering. It works fast and that's what I want when I'm shaping. But, one thing I found with the rose quartz teardrop, I should have put it back into 60/90, there were a few deeper scratches that didn't come out. I'm going to get some burs around 100 grit to smooth out the shaping so I can go into 120/200. I don't use pellets in coarse but do in 120/200 and if I'm going to spend an hour shaping a rock, I want it in with the cushioned load. Anyway ... your first question. I don't recommend the flex shaft. 2nd Question ... Yes, it depends on the grit of the bur you are using. Whatever the bur grit is, go with like grits in the tumbling. I've never melted a diamond bur so can't help you there. I'm still using the same ones I bought last summer although a couple of them are starting to look a little worn. Cher
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Post by guest on Mar 18, 2005 10:42:01 GMT -5
Hey Voodoo, a dentist. Basically a jeweler with much higher recquirements. I just had all my teeth pulled. They had gotten frozen and shattered the roots and the surrouding jaw. It was a mess and I am glad they are gone. I was ten years healing from the incident. Is there any way to short out those chips without removing the teeth? What an imbicile!
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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 18, 2005 10:45:21 GMT -5
Thanks Rose - I was hoping you'd post something as I'd seen your work and remembered that you did use the dremel. My dad is bringing his over (maybe I'll forget to return it ) but I will go out to buy bits - as with everything else, these things are hard to find around here. I'm hoping to get something useable. Is there a lot of dust when using the dremel? What about using protective glasses (I assume this is a must) or do I need a dust mask? Can I do this in the kitchen with the kids around? Could you, in theory use the dremel to polish the stone as well? Like using a grinder to make a cab? By using progressively finer grits & a polishing burr?
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Post by Cher on Mar 18, 2005 10:56:38 GMT -5
Thanks Rose - I was hoping you'd post something as I'd seen your work and remembered that you did use the dremel. My dad is bringing his over (maybe I'll forget to return it ) but I will go out to buy bits - as with everything else, these things are hard to find around here. I'm hoping to get something useable. Is there a lot of dust when using the dremel? What about using protective glasses (I assume this is a must) or do I need a dust mask? Can I do this in the kitchen with the kids around? Could you, in theory use the dremel to polish the stone as well? Like using a grinder to make a cab? By using progressively finer grits & a polishing burr? Check on ebay, that's where I got mine. You can get a 20-30 pack of burs for under $10 bucks. A lot of dust? Well, when I first started and was doing the "dip the rock in water then use the dremel" bit ... yes. Since I've started doing it with the bur under water, there's none, the water grabs it all. The only problem with doing it this way is water spraying about so it still makes a mess. You'll learn to hold the dremel so the water sprays more on the hand holding the rock and not all over. Safety equipment is always a good idea. Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing it with the kids around ... to distracting. In theory .... I have no idea. ;D I'm pretty sure I'd never have the patience to do that to find out. Kind of like Stefan spraying the rock then making one pass with the dremel ... couldn't do that either. Cher
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 18, 2005 11:44:12 GMT -5
Patience dear Rose- No really that was why I bought the tile saw! I do use the dremel for some light grinding- but it is usually a quickie! Tweet- NO KIDS- One slip and it's goodby body part- oh glasses are a must! dust mask is a good idea as most rock dust can cause problems! In therory Tweet you could use the dremel to polish things up- BUT it would take a very very very very very very very veyr very long time- Plus it would take forever! ;D
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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 18, 2005 11:49:40 GMT -5
Can either of you post a pic of what these burrs look like? I'Ve seen all sorts of things and can't imagine working with them as they look ackward & bulky - I looked on ebay and the diamond burs look long & my arms wouldn't reach
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Post by Cher on Mar 18, 2005 14:19:07 GMT -5
Diamond BurrsThese are the ones I have, bought from this seller. Cher Patience dear Rose- No really that was why I bought the tile saw! I do use the dremel for some light grinding- but it is usually a quickie! Tweet- NO KIDS- One slip and it's goodby body part- oh glasses are a must! dust mask is a good idea as most rock dust can cause problems! In therory Tweet you could use the dremel to polish things up- BUT it would take a very very very very very very very veyr very long time- Plus it would take forever! ;D LOL ;D Not sure but if you're talking to me ... I'm Cher, not Rose. I've bumped against the bit when it was running full tilt, didn't lose any body parts, didn't even get a scratch. I'm thinking more of the idea if you had to set it down for a minute and a kid grabbed it or dropped it ... it's good-bye dremel. pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/signs/RockOn.gif [/img] ~ Cher ~
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Post by docone31 on Mar 18, 2005 19:39:29 GMT -5
Those are ok burrs. Use 45% beeswax, 55% Vaseline blended with heat, and they cut like crazy and last a looooooong time. I use a foot pedal when working with either a dremel, or my foredom. Makes it an whole lot easier.
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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 18, 2005 20:07:04 GMT -5
Doc are you saying to put the beeswax/vaseline mixture on the burrs while dremelling? Do you wash these off after? How?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Mar 21, 2005 10:10:32 GMT -5
Cher- I typed Cher- but it came out rose! I was thinking why your screenname was rosebud- when your name was cher- and well I may only be 39 but the CRS is setting in! Oh tweet I think you use that mix on the burr- Acts as a lube and helps the bit run cooler! SHould not be any need to wash it off- as far as losing body parts- Well a Dremel is not gonna chop and arm off- but I have gotten some NASTY cuts from not paying attention to it- And I have had bits fly appart (thank goodness for safty glasses!)
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Post by Cher on Mar 21, 2005 11:41:50 GMT -5
Rosebud was my cb handle back in my truck driving days. ;D It just kind of stuck and figured it was as good as anything for screennames.
I've been using a little borax in the water when I'm using my dremel. They do have something that's made for using with burrs, can't remember what it's called off hand ... CRS!! Seems to me that vaseline would be a bit messy to use, it's so sticky, wouldn't it contribute to clogging the burrs?
Cher
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Post by docone31 on Mar 21, 2005 20:56:57 GMT -5
When you blend Vaseline and beeswax, it gets quite stiff. The commercial burr lube is called Burr Life.
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