Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2008 11:32:22 GMT -5
Yesterday I received a catalog from a Cabochon supplier. I dont know how they got my name as I've never even heard of them. As a cabber that spends countless hours making one of kind cabs, I am always horrified when going through catalogs such as these...........pages of cabs that literally cost pennies each, grab bags of 100 or even 500, affordable by all.
I dont feel that we "compete" with these suppliers in any way. Our cabs are selected individually and hand cut. Its not even worth comparing them to the cheap overseas cabs that are either mass produced by hand or machine stamped and tumbled. However, it makes it easy to see why its hard to get what a cab is actually worth. Buyers generally dont care that we put our heart and soul into these.....most (I admit, not all) just want the best price. There are a few that appreciate quality and I do recognize that.
I am one of those that would cab forever and not make a single dime. As of yet, I havent sold anything because I dont really have the time to build up inventory plus I enjoy giving them as gifts. Making a little money would just be icing on the cake. But for those of you that DO sell............do you realize that the quality of your own work so far surpasses what is massed produced that you dont even give it a second thought? Or does it irk you to no end that appreciation for true quality seems to be of little importance compared to the cheap & mass produced?
Shannon
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by drjo on Nov 5, 2008 12:17:24 GMT -5
I too appreciate the people that appreciate craftsmanship (craftswomanship, craftspersonship?) Are the stones identifiable? Does this mass producer have a website or address/name? I guess if I was working a carnival or grade school fair Dr Joe .
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 5, 2008 12:42:34 GMT -5
Shannon It's the new world we live in. Dontcha just love it?
I've been thinking of buying some of this stuff and reworking it. Would that be cheating? ;D Some of them do have some beautiful material
Curt
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2008 13:14:35 GMT -5
Curt, CHEATER! CHEATER! I suppose I can see the logistics of taking poorly cabbed material and re-working them. Technically, if completely re-worked, you DID cab them. It would lessen the creativity used though.........I mean as far as choosing the material yourself. Well, unless you consider fishing around in a grab bag as "choosing" LOL. drjo: I dont remember the name of the supplier because I recycled the filthy catalog LOL. However, I do remember that although they advertised AAA grade cabochons starting at around 30 cents each, there were NO PHOTOS. They sold inexpensive faceted gems as well. Shannon
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pebblepup
has rocks in the head
Succor Creek Thunder Egg
Member since July 2008
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Post by pebblepup on Nov 5, 2008 13:38:06 GMT -5
You got to love free trade agreements. Cheap, mediocre, crap made in third world factories that pushes real craftsmen out of business. Just remember there is a good job waiting for you at Walmart or McDonald's.
Sorry folks, This is one issue that really gets to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2008 13:53:39 GMT -5
I totally understand pebblepup........unfortunately its a double edged sword. Im sure most of us would rather buy quality American made products but its hard to pass up a good deal, especially with today's economy. For many its not even a choice any more. You buy what you can afford no matter where it comes from. Its definitely a sign of the times.
Shannon
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Post by Tweetiepy on Nov 5, 2008 13:55:28 GMT -5
Maybe I'm a dumb @$$ but I liked Curt's idea of reworking those cheap cabs - wouldn't it be like getting cheap slabbettes?
I sometimes see some cabs at BeadFX.com and they're far from cheap each (cost more for the small cab than any slab I've ever bought) but a cheap (let's assume the materials are at least decent) slabbette is that not a good thing?
But no, cheap labour is not good! Maybe my brain is too full of Halloween candy too!
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Post by Jurrasic Jonje on Nov 5, 2008 14:12:55 GMT -5
These companies spit mass quantities of standard shapes. The cabs I do sell are 1 good material and 2 free form. In the lapidary hobby wire wrappers and smithers are looking for stones that will make there work stand out. So yes these companies will sell cheap cabs and people will buy them its the nature of business. However there will always be a market for fine handcrafted products.
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 5, 2008 17:05:38 GMT -5
Maybe I'm a dumb @$$ but I liked Curt's idea of reworking those cheap cabs - wouldn't it be like getting cheap slabbettes? I sometimes see some cabs at BeadFX.com and they're far from cheap each (cost more for the small cab than any slab I've ever bought) but a cheap (let's assume the materials are at least decent) slabbette is that not a good thing? But no, cheap labour is not good! Maybe my brain is too full of Halloween candy too! Did Tweet just call me a dumb @$$ ?? Curt ;D
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Post by sitnwrap on Nov 5, 2008 17:29:35 GMT -5
I think there is room for both the mass produced and the cabs that are hand crafted by artisians and wrappers know the difference. I think crafters who partly rely on their talent to generate income has to consider the total spectrum of their customer base. There will always be people who just want the less expensive but looks pretty and that customer base supplies the income needed to buy the good stuff to produce the higher quality crafts.
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Post by Tweetiepy on Nov 5, 2008 19:26:07 GMT -5
No Curt I'm the dumb @$$! but I like your idea! ;D It's kinda like buying a nice okay necklace to take it apart & make something better with it! Maybe I'm a dumb @$$ but I liked Curt's idea of reworking those cheap cabs - wouldn't it be like getting cheap slabbettes? I sometimes see some cabs at BeadFX.com and they're far from cheap each (cost more for the small cab than any slab I've ever bought) but a cheap (let's assume the materials are at least decent) slabbette is that not a good thing? But no, cheap labour is not good! Maybe my brain is too full of Halloween candy too! Did Tweet just call me a dumb @$$ ?? Curt ;D
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by drjo on Nov 5, 2008 20:23:18 GMT -5
These companies spit mass quantities of standard shapes. The cabs I do sell are 1 good material and 2 free form. In the lapidary hobby wire wrappers and smithers are looking for stones that will make there work stand out. So yes these companies will sell cheap cabs and people will buy them its the nature of business. However there will always be a market for fine handcrafted products. Could you point me towards that market since they don't seem to be able to find me.................Please! ;D Dr Joe .
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steelandstone
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Post by steelandstone on Nov 5, 2008 20:34:22 GMT -5
These companies spit mass quantities of standard shapes. The cabs I do sell are 1 good material and 2 free form. In the lapidary hobby wire wrappers and smithers are looking for stones that will make there work stand out. So yes these companies will sell cheap cabs and people will buy them its the nature of business. However there will always be a market for fine handcrafted products. I agree 1000000%. Even in the show circuit I'm in right now and mind you it is not the bottom of the barrel but it is no A show either pretty much all you see is Oval, Round, and maybe a square here and there. I have only done 4 shows but one comment always seems to be consistent. "Where did you get these stones, they are so different" And that is exactly what they are. Now mind you I do use 10 x 14 and 8 x 10 cabs I buy but some of them I pay decent money for and have weeded out the C$%P. There will always be a place for true handcrafted one of a kind cabs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2008 12:16:36 GMT -5
Conversation always seems to trail to cab shape when the subject of quality vs. mass produced is brought up. Nowdays it seems that many are stuck on the idea that a freeform shape is a requirement for a unique hancrafted cab. I did nothing but freeforms for quite some time and I shunned the traditional shapes altogether. I have since learned the error of my beginner ways. There is a time and a place for freeforms but also times when only a traditional shape will do. Like when you have such an exquisite pattern or picture on a cab that you dont want it overpowered by a multi-cornered uneven shape. Another reason I shunned traditional shapes as a beginner was because they were HARD. I often used the excuse that they were boring but it is not easy to keep a round shape perfectly round. Or an oval even at both ends. You cant just mess up and say oh well, it now has three corners instead of four, like you can with freeforms.
For those that were like me and flat out refuse to make traditional shaped cabs because they are "boring", challenge yourself instead of avoiding them. Become skilled with freeforms AND traditional shapes as is it makes for a more highly skilled lapidarist. My cabs are unique hand crafted pieces even though the shapes are traditional and I dont think anyone would call bobby1's oval beauties boring.
Shannon
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 6, 2008 13:48:30 GMT -5
I've seen some of that stuff too. Sometimes 30X40's at less than $2 per cab and much of the material is pretty nice too. Some seem to be polished in a vibe tumbler and some by hand. Most probably come from India, Pakistan or China. I'd say it's a good way to get some cheap preforms and rework them. You don't get to pick your patterns but can at least get some good inexpensive materials and the Chinese are snapping up lots of the best stuff from foreign sources so sometimes, this may be your only chance to get some of those materials for a decent price. Shoot, I say if you rework them it ain't cheating anymore than buying other slabs or preforms. I've been tempted to do this myself.
Went to a show not long ago and saw a pile of beautiful African Queen Picture Jasper ( one of the materials pretty much all snapped up by the Chinese) that had been polished as paperweights and such. I didn't buy any but the price was cheap enough you could've bought them up and slabbed the paper weights for some darn good cabbing material....Mel
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Post by akansan on Nov 6, 2008 14:32:47 GMT -5
The shows I've been to that have these mass-produced cabs...you have to pick and choose. There are some of them with exquisite patterns. There are a bunch of mediocre ones as well.
One of the tables I went to had the mass-produced cabs in buckets, and then had a Ryker display of hand-made cabs. And the hand-made were far more high-end. The average beader/wire-wrapper could spend $10 and get 6-8 cabs from the mass-produced...or $25 and get one. The discerning beader/wire-wrapper would spend the $25.
I can understand the appeal of mass-produced stones for solid colors. For anything with a pattern, I prefer something that they weren't weighing the number of stones from the slab versus the best pattern for the stone. Then again, I also don't like to work with vibe-tumbled edges when I wrap...
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Post by stonesthatrock on Nov 6, 2008 15:43:50 GMT -5
well i have to agree with most of what was said, except for me its not a good thing when ppl are going to buy the cheap cabs and rework them. As you all know i sell the slabs, if no one buys the slabs anymore, then i will be out of business. The foreign market hurts us all in the end.
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Post by parfive on Nov 6, 2008 16:47:12 GMT -5
Funny how perspective changes things. Over here - "Cheap, mediocre, crap made in third world factories . . . " Over there - Just a buncha poor people tryin' to work and survive, never mind make a better life.
Rich
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Post by sitnwrap on Nov 6, 2008 17:52:48 GMT -5
you are right parfive. But sometimes it isn't cheap mediocre crap. If anyone has ever really looked at Larimar and how it is mined and what the laborers are paid, then compare it to the market price of the material it just doesn't seem right I pick Larimar because it is mined only in the Dominican Republic therefore if you want to play, you have to pay.
but I am off subject, this is about mass produced cabs. You also have to consider the cabs in a bucket or the 100 per bag lots as it is usually mixed material/mixed hardness rolling around with each other reeking havoc with the polish.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2008 17:58:58 GMT -5
Thank you all for your input on my post! Its great to discuss subjects such as these and get opinions I may not have thought of.
Shannon
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