rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Sept 29, 2009 10:51:36 GMT -5
I cleaned out my 18" HP about a month ago and have been cutting every day since. I've been cutting laguna lace agate, porcelain jasper, rocky butte jasper, etc. I've noticed for the last two weeks a rotten egg smell when I open the saw. I have noticed when I cut turtella agate that there is a similar smell but no turitella cutting done since I've cleaned the saw.
I've heard that sometimes you can get a bacteria in the oil that causes skin rashes and adding a little ammonia to the oil will help. No skin rashes to date. I'm wondering if I've got something growing in there...
Any ideas?
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 29, 2009 11:00:06 GMT -5
Any sulfur in the rocks you are cutting?
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rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Sept 29, 2009 11:13:52 GMT -5
John,
Not that I know of. Just the jaspers and agates I listed...
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Post by akansan on Sept 29, 2009 12:23:09 GMT -5
I had a batch of Mexican Lace that gave me that smell in the tumbler barrel. I wouldn't have thought it had sulpher in it (and no yellow was present in the lace), but it was rotten eggs each time I opened the barrel.
Are you leaving the saw open between cuttings or is the smell only there when you open it after a cut? I'd try airing the saw out if it's at all feasible and leave the lid open for a day.
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rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Sept 29, 2009 13:00:30 GMT -5
It could be the Laguna Lace agate. I've been cutting a bunch of Laguna Lace I bought at the Denver show. I understand the Laguna Lace mine is a few miles from where the crazy lace agate is mined.
It smells strongest when I open up the saw after a cut finishes. I'll try leaving it open at night...
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 29, 2009 18:07:23 GMT -5
Clean your saw. The rotten egg smell is from the bacteria. That smell is the frirst sign of H2S (hydrogen sulfide). In the low level form. Thats when it is safe. You can smell the gas up to about 10 t0 20 parts per million. It can turn deadly after that( 300 ppm) . Its a real problem in the oilfield, sewers, or any where there is stagnent water. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfideRead the above link could save you life some day.
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rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Sept 29, 2009 22:09:37 GMT -5
I just changed the oil in my saw about 3 weeks ago. I recycle my oil and it all stored in a 55 gallon drum. There is no odor in the drum.
I'm leaning toward the Laguna Lace agate I've been cutting is responsible for the smell. I've been searching on bacteria in cutting oil and found that the main indicator is a rash on the operators hands. My hands are fine.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Sept 30, 2009 9:10:47 GMT -5
Yes you have to watch out for that H2S!!! I worked around it for 20 years in the oil patch,wicked stuff and deadly!
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Sept 30, 2009 12:32:57 GMT -5
Reminds me of another thread around here where someone had a similar complaint. Ended up finding a dead animal in a bucket of water that was stored in the rock area.
Chuck
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 30, 2009 17:30:41 GMT -5
You know I would be careful. That smell means business!! H2S is produced by bactiera and rotting plants etc. It is allso known as swamp gas. 2 people died around here afew years ago, cleaning there fresh water tank in there house. Ammonia does nutralize it, but it does not stop it from coming back. I have worked around it most of my life and have taken the H2S course every 3 years for the last 20 + years. 3 winters ago I was working on wells that were 70% H2S. There is no second chance with this stuff. One breath and your down. And with out been given CPR your dead. Some picks of a location in northern Bristish Columbia that I was at for a winter. The white truck in the botton left corner is me. I'm inside with my Boiler, playing poker on my pc. It was -50 c that day. The lease entrance with the northern lights. Drill rig having a small kick or blowout. Blowout under control, flaring the gas off.
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rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Oct 1, 2009 11:49:03 GMT -5
I don't mean to discount the danger of hydrogen sulfide or anyone's expertise in the field. Toxic gases are an ever present danger in the oil fields. But I think the conditions in a rock saw are unlikely to create hydrogen sulfide gas. Isn't an anaerobic environment necessary to have hydrogen sulfide form? Given that there is about 8 gallons of oil spread out in an 3 ft x 4 ft surface area and the running saw blade vigorously agitates and aerates the oil and the saw is run daily 8-10 hours a day it's unlikely an anaerobic conditions will exist unless there is a lot of sludge build up in the bottom of the saw. I clean and change the oil in my saw every 2-3 months so the build up of sludge is never more than an inch.
Since I've finished cutting the Laguna Lace Agate and now cutting a chunk of Pilbarro Jasper the smell has dissipated. I think I can add Laguna Lace Agate to my list of smelly rocks to cut allong with Turritella agate. Pee Yewww!
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Post by akansan on Oct 5, 2009 12:56:19 GMT -5
And it might have been just that batch of Laguna Lace. I've tumbled multiple batches of crazy lace, but it was only that one batch that reeked. I'm very aware of H2S hazards (lived in oil country for 6+ years and actually taught the H2S courses), and I'd agree that the saw would be one of the least likely places for it to accumulate, especially if the smell was most noticeable AFTER cutting something, rather than upon opening the saw after it had been idle for a while.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Oct 5, 2009 19:22:52 GMT -5
Your probly right rockdewd. But it better to be safe than sorry. Akansan, not to discredit your knowledge of H2S, you being an instructor and all. But when the saw is running, is when you would smell it. Remember that if the gas is saturated in fluid, it is released when disturbed. You know like at the shale shaker on a digging rig. Or walking through a puddle. But what does a dumb old Rigpig know anyway. :2cents:
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docharber
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Post by docharber on Oct 7, 2009 23:17:33 GMT -5
OK, back to the original proposition about the source being the rock itself- that's the most likely explanation. Many rocks contain sulfides like pyrite or galena or other metallosulfides and even in small quantities the heat from the saw blade may liberate the sulfur as H2S but more likely, sulfur dioxide which combines with water to form sulfuric acid and that's why it is toxic. It can be corrosive of course, and will be pretty persistent in the oil. Just use good ventilation and the amounts you are exposed to in the course of sawing are really nothing more than annoying. In oil, these sulfur compounds may remain dissolved and relatively inert.
You didn't mention what kind of oil you use. HGighly refined mineral oil (food grade) used by many on the board should be odorless in itself and contain no compounds that could break down. Other lubricants, such as kerosene and similar lubricants, may contain an appreciavble amount of sulfur. I doubt bacterial action is involved in your saw's off-gassing. Rather, I think it is simply the sulfur compounds in the oil or more likely in the rocks breaking down under the intense local friction heating in the saw kerf to release the sulfur compounds.
Remember, many agates form in sulfur rick volcanic rock. The many associated minerals may gypsum or other sulfates, pyrite and the less stable marcasite, sphalerite, and other meetallosulfides, etc. You need no bacterial action to liberate stinky sulfur compounds. There can also be small amounts of sublimed elemental sulfur. Sulfur dioxide and H2S can be trapped ready made in rhyolites, obsidian, basalt, and other volcanic hiost rokcs.
Anyway, there is little danger from the very low concentrations of sullfur dioxide or H2S generated in the saw. I might be tempted to use a corriosion inhibitor of some sort in a potentially acidic environment like the saw oil. I wouldn't know what that would be, though. Such compounds ar used in automotive fuels and lubricants becaause of sulfuric acid generation and heat/oxidation in the combustion process.
Mark H.
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rockdewd
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Post by rockdewd on Oct 9, 2009 11:21:14 GMT -5
Mark,
Thanks for the great explanation.
I use recycled transformer oil which is a refined mineral oil with additives to raise the flash point. Of course it has been tested for PCB's before my source gets it from his source which is the power company he works for.
My garage is well ventilated but I need to be mindful not to stick my head directly over the saw when I open it just in case.
Turretella agate is by far the stinkiest rock I have come across. It must fit in with what you described.
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