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Post by tntmom on Dec 25, 2010 1:07:13 GMT -5
I've had a small batch of blue quartz with 50% ceramics going in my 3lb Lortone for more than 2 months. I finally got to the 500 stage and after rinsing noticed that they had fine chips all over them. I don't know how to really explain it other than they look frosty now whereas they didn't before. The white frosting only shows up after they have dried for several minutes. They do look worse wet now too though... With a magnifying glass I can see pits everywhere. I haven't had this problem with other types of quartz. They looked so perfect coming out of 220, any ideas? Is a rotary too harsh on blue quartz? Should I use them in the vibe instead? Only one out of the next picture is acceptable (top right didn't frost, all others did). Dry: Wet (rocks aren't in the exact same position, tried to put them on paper towel before wetting them but picture didn't turn out, back on desk in similar order): I sure wish I had pictures of them coming out of 220, they looked so gorgeous. I am frustrated with these buggers. Advice on these is much needed. Thanks! ~ Krystee
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Post by tntmom on Dec 25, 2010 1:21:25 GMT -5
Here is a better close up picture. You can easily see the pits and frosting. They're hammered
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Post by susand24224 on Dec 26, 2010 0:02:46 GMT -5
Hi, I'm tumbling blue quartz right now in with some aventurine. I'm only on the second coarse grind, but I've noticed a lot of internal fractures. The white spots on yours I think are spalling, but it's hard to be sure without actually poking at them. When I have rocks that are chipping and spalling, I add a lot of ceramics, which you have done, but I also add borax or Ivory Snow to thicken the slurry. This slows down the action, do I usually go ten day cycles rather than seven. I'm also wondering reading your experience and seeing mine, if the rocks weren't just really fractured to begin with, and at least with yours the fractures are just beginning to show as you smooth them off. You will be tumbling forever if you try to tumble out spalls; if you have the ability you might want to use a grinder to remove them. If you don't have a grinder, a very carefuly placed chisel hit with a hammer will often help. I haven't found a rock yet that could be processed in a vibe and not a rotary, so I don't think that's the case with the blue quartz. After a few more weeks with mine, I may change my mind, though. Susan
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,342
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Post by quartz on Dec 26, 2010 11:25:50 GMT -5
Making a judgement from the pictures, these pieces look a lot like quartz we find on the Oregon beaches that has too big a grain structure to ever polish, gets smooth, but won't polish. Our rule of thumb is: "if we can't see light through them, we leave them". Jasper is obviously judged differently, the surface tells whether it will polish or not.
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Post by tntmom on Dec 27, 2010 3:12:56 GMT -5
I'm making a last ditch effort and throwing some of them in the new Lot-O I got for Christmas. If that doesn't work then I guess I will set them aside and polish by hand with diamond paste and felt burs. These little rocks have become my nemesis!
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Post by tntmom on Dec 27, 2010 3:25:58 GMT -5
Quartz, you are close to my location. I've collected milky quartz in a few colors that tumbles beautifully (Puget Sound, WA area, Suan Juan Islands), never found blue though, locally. Have you? I would love to find blue anything in my area! Let me know...
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Post by connrock on Dec 27, 2010 12:26:19 GMT -5
As Susan said it's hard to tell by looking at photos but in my opinion it looks like it's just the characteristics of that type of rock. I don't know the correct terminology for it so I will call it the structure of that type of rock. If you notice in the first photo,the rock in the upper right doesn't look quite as rough on it's surface and has a much tighter "grain' to it yet it is the same type of rock in "structure"! To me this is typical of quartz of this type as I can find a lot of it here in Connecticut,,,,not blue but in white,semi-clear and a very light pink. This is listed at geology.com as blue aventurine which is a form of blue quartz and it's very similar to what your photos show,,, Here it is actually listed as Blue Aventurine Quartz,,,,, www.mineralminers.com/html/avblrgh.stmI have polished this type of material with success and you can too but don't expect it to look like a "solid" piece of quartz when it's finished. To me the key to getting the best possible shine on this rock and rocks with similar "structure' is to use a LOT of soap to a point where the soap becomes a LITTLE sticky on the rocks as they turn in the barrel(Lot-O-Tumbler).I use as much as 2-3 teaspoons of powdered laundry soap to about 3-4lbs of rocks and only as much water as it takes to keep the rocks from sticking together. The soap forms sort of a cushion and also seems to penetrate into every single little flaw in this type of rock which makes it easy to clean up between grits and polishing as well. Do not use hot water during the different stages and during clean up either. I use a very intense home made water spray of cold well water which is about 40-50 degrees F. I don't use ceramic media or any other fillers but am not saying that they are a bad thing to use or that it's incorrect to use them,,,,,only that I don't use them. Hope this help a little,,,,,,,,,, connrock
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Dec 27, 2010 14:02:30 GMT -5
Connrock,
Interesting. I thought it looked like a "blue" aventurine as well.
Eileen
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Post by tntmom on Dec 27, 2010 20:54:57 GMT -5
Connrock, I am using your recipe in my new Lot-O. Could you please look at my which is quieter thread, at the bottom is a video of my first run. Could you tell me if it looks thick enough for the blue quartz? That is what I'm running along with some preforms. I do use ceramics as I rarely have enough acceptable material for a full vibe load. I am using Borax as my soap, 1 tsp in this load. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=tottumb&action=display&thread=41624Thank you!
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Post by connrock on Dec 28, 2010 9:25:14 GMT -5
Hi tnt,,, I know that looking at your video is a timely thing and that you're past that point now but at the time the video was taken I would say that you could use just a TAD more water,,,a couple or 3 squirts with the spray bottle would do it. I say this because I see some of the ceramic media starting to stick to some of the pre-forms. I don't use Borax in my loads but rather powdered laundry soap. I use the soap because it's an indicator of a sort.When the load is just right I can see the soap starting to form "bubles" between each rock as it passes by.Sort of like if you wet your hands with a lot of bar soap and water and then separated your fingers.The soap will form a "bridge" between your fingers.It won't make a bubble but it will "bridge' your fingers. Something I might add is that you WILL see your load get thick when using the 220 grit especially over night but that's normal,,,,unless you stay up all night to sprits it! LOL
Another point is that the softer the rocks are the faster the load will get thick and as you progress to the finer grits and polishes the load will stay nice and thin for you and won't need much tending at all.
I hope I'm not too late in answering you questions and I'll try to keep coming back here more often to help.
connrock
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Post by tntmom on Dec 28, 2010 13:16:31 GMT -5
Connrock, Ah hah! Great answer, you made a fantastic key point! I always focused on the gravy like consistency instead of the ceramics not "sticking" to the rocks. I will spritz as frequently as needed to keep the ceramics sliding through the stones. This load already has Borax in it but I will also add 1 tsp of laundry soap in to experiment with that. The soap I have is HE low sudsing so I'm guessing that should be good.
I really like the Lot-O so far, and with any new tumbler, there are new tricks to learn!
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Post by connrock on Dec 29, 2010 8:21:02 GMT -5
I don't know if adding low sudsing soap will give you that indication of a soap film/bubble across the rocks and I'm not sure if any soap will "bubble" using it with Borax? ? It took me what seemed forever to learn how to use my LO and that's why I try to help others to not make the same mistakes that I did. It is VERY difficult to write any type instructions and what I wrote was really a basic outline on how to use the LO. There are soooooooooooo many little yet important factors that could have been mentioned but I didn't want to "clog" up anyone's mind with a whole bunch of info all at once. Although I do stick to a basic "recipe" I sort of do it like Grandma's way of baking with a little of this and a pinch of that and VERY seldom if at all actually measure anything. THIS is what made it difficult for me to write a set of instructions! I am ALWAYS trying something new and just 2 days ago I tried using cerium oxide as a polish which has always been shunned by vibe users. Cerium Oxide is not recommended for vibes but the material (common opal) I was trying to polish didn't do well using tin or aluminum oxide. Another thing I used was plastic pellets which seem to be another 'no-no" in vibes. Well,,,,,,,they both worked just fine,,,,,with a little "twicking" here and there and the opal came out like glass! So,,,,,,no matter what the recipe,technique or "past practice" "has" been,,,,ya gotta experiment to learn more and more all the time and don't get stuck in that "every day" rut we all seem to get into. My opal would have come out so-so and it would have been stuck up on a shelf somewhere nagging the death out of me for the rest of my life cuz it just didn't have that "wet' look. Sometimes you HAVE to do something that isn't "politically correct"! connrock
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Post by tntmom on Dec 29, 2010 13:03:29 GMT -5
I rinsed them yesterday as the slurry was worn out. I started thinking about the bubbles after I posted and just so happened to find a sample box of regular Tide on my shelf that came wrapped up with the newspaper once. I tried a spoonfull of that and yes there are bubbles now. Skipped the borax on this run. I also removed a bunch of ceramics and most of the preforms, I then reloaded it with extra rose, amethyst and tiger eye that has already been roughed in the Lortones. The barrel is mostly rocks now, I will pull a blue quartz piece out this afternoon and see how it's doing. When I rinsed yesterday the blue quartz didn't seem to look or feel any different than they did going in. Hopefully this new soap method will be just what I need!
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Post by tntmom on Dec 29, 2010 20:35:52 GMT -5
5pm update: Fished around in the grey muck for awhile and managed to find two pieces of blue quartz to rinse and let dry. They still look a tad frosty however, if I close my eyes and feel them they are smooth and I can not feel the pits anymore! That is MUCH different than yesterday!!! I am tempted to rinse and go to the 500 but I will try to hold back and wait another 24 hours . It appears that those tiny soap bubbles are doing something! WHOOHOO!
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Post by connrock on Dec 30, 2010 9:18:26 GMT -5
Glad things are working better for you now.
Don't forget though,,,,,the longer you leave the rocks in the more the grit breaks down so your rocks should start to feel smoother. What I'm saying that it's not only the soap that's fine tuning the rocks but also grit break down as well!
I think the soap helps a lot in keeping the grit moving around with the rocks.It sort of "suspends" the grit and lubricated things as well.
Another good thing about using lots of soap is clean up time.The soap actually gets into all those flaws and comes out a lot easier but DO NOT let the rocks dry out or the soap will be there forever!
connrock
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Post by tntmom on Dec 30, 2010 23:36:13 GMT -5
I do know about the grit breaking down (in 1/2 every 12-24 hours via vibe!). In the Lortones I got through the 500 stage and then, for whatever reason, the blue quartz regressed back to the 60/90 stage with the pits. Gee, that was the pits... ;D
You have helped me tremendously! I am now in the 500 stage tonight and the rocks are looking good so far. Started them up this afternoon and, they are already starting to take a shine! The other fillers (rose, amethyst and tiger eye) are also starting to take a shine but will need to be put back into the next 120/220 load as they were not perfected to my satisfaction...just used as filler!
Out of the few preforms I left in, I had one crack on me and another chip. Not sure why, they seemed perfectly cushioned. Maybe it was me or maybe the stone. No worries from me though, they can be fixed in later batches.
The soap is definitely different! I am completely uneducated with dealing with the whole bubble thing. It seems to really work though.... The stones are also very slippery when I try to rinse one and check the progress, also very easy to rinse. I am thinking this is the grit carrier/cleanup that you were trying to explain to me?
I'm so glad you are back posting and helping me out with my new Lot-O tumbler..... I can remember almost 2 years ago, looking at your Lot-O tumbles and thinking.... "wow, sure wish I could do that!"
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Post by connrock on Jan 2, 2011 10:22:27 GMT -5
Hi tnt,,, I wasn't posting much and still don't really get around here a lot but have lost quite a bit of weight so my ankles and legs aren't swelling like they were when I sat for long periods of time.
It's very hard for me not to help others and it seemed to me like more and more people were having minor problems with the Lot-O-Tumbler so I just came back in and am trying my best to do what I LOVE to do!
I just think these tumblers are soooooooooooo amazing but at the same time a little "quirky" to use. I do KNOW that there are people who gave up on using them for one reason or another but I think mostly due to impatience and not really being determined.
I don't really know what it is with the soap either but it works,,,,,if it aint broke,,,,don't fix it!
connrock
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Post by tntmom on Jan 2, 2011 22:59:14 GMT -5
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