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Post by rockrookie on Mar 1, 2011 17:21:46 GMT -5
i had an expected box of rocks from a fellow RTHer . it actually should have been here several weeks ago ...... i got a claim notification today . this was a Med FRB they are billing $54.80 to pick it up . we all pack full boxes and add extra tape to secure it from rough handling . this postal worker kept saying that these boxes can't be packed to the point that they are no long flat ( no buldging of sides ) and no scotch tape . any way . the box ripped open , had to be repacked , and no longer counted as Flat rate . so charged for full shipping. she did not show me the box .
she said that i could refuse it . but then they would send it back .... and the sender would be charged ............. makes no sense to me . shipping it back 3000 miles . then , i don't know if they can just refuse claiming it . or would she be forced to pay for it . and then would would they charge for shipping both ways. doubling the charge .
i am really frustrated by this . and i don't want anyone else to have to deal with this in the future .
i though that some one may have advice .
i told them to hold on to it . so i could talk to the sender . i did not include her name here . because i am waiting to talk to her 1st .
--paul
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Post by beefjello on Mar 1, 2011 18:42:50 GMT -5
I hope someone in the know can give you some good advice. I'd be asking for the supervisor, and the supervisor's supervisor if they don't 'drop the charges', that's just insane!! Good luck Paul!
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jimrbto
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since April 2007
Posts: 94
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Post by jimrbto on Mar 1, 2011 18:56:58 GMT -5
I always ship my boxes with plenty of 3M transparent packaging tape plus at least a couple wraps of nylon reenforced tape. I have never had a problem as long as the tape did not obscure any of the instructions on the FRB. I would ask the clerk to show you what regulation she is referring to and if she won't comply ask to speak to a supervisor.
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Post by texaswoodie on Mar 1, 2011 19:39:17 GMT -5
Yep, talk to the Postmaster. If that doesn't work file a complaint with the USPS. I don't remember seeing anything that says the box has to be flat.
Curt
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Post by catmandewe on Mar 1, 2011 22:08:45 GMT -5
"IF IT FITS IT SHIPS FOR ONE LOW FLAT RATE"
Mishandling mail is no cause for them to not honor their advertising. Ask to speak to a supervisor. They spent millions on this flat rate campaign. You can mail anything that fits inside a flat rate box or envelope. Normal postal and governmental regulations apply; you are not permitted to send prohibited materials through the postal service. The weight of each package is limited to 70 lbs.
According to USPS.com, if the container flap is able to close within its normal folds, a flat rate box's contents are acceptable. Tape may be applied to reinforce the material, but the tape must not obstruct the package in any way.
The only restrictions the USPS website lists are
Restrictions: Contents must reasonably fit within the Priority Mail packaging, and weigh less than 70 pounds.
They also state;
A simpler way to ship.
Take the guesswork out of shipping with Priority Mail® Flat Rates. Whatever fits in the box or envelope ships for one low rate—anywhere in the United States. There's virtually no weighing or calculating. And your packages reach their destination in 2-3 days.
Take that info back to the PO and get your package, you don't owe them any more, and complain about them playing soccer with your box of rocks.
Have a great day...............Tony
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Mar 1, 2011 22:30:53 GMT -5
Way To Go, Tony!!!
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Post by tntmom on Mar 1, 2011 22:59:23 GMT -5
UGH! That makes me a little angry that they would even try to pull that crud with you. I'm not too fond of USPS myself lately. I had to track down my own box of rocks that the postman delivered to a different house on a completely different street. I complained to the postman and he said "I didn't do the route on Friday, that was Jimmy." Well, guess what? On Saturday the guy I talked to, left mail in my mailbox for the address that had my box the day before! Wasn't some guy named Jimmy this time...
I agree with Tony, print out the USPS.com info on the priority flat rates and take it in with you. Like Tony said, the post office advertises "If it fits it ships for one low flat rate"!!!
Good luck and sorry you have to endure this frustrating mess!
~Krystee
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Post by catmandewe on Mar 1, 2011 23:29:11 GMT -5
I found the USPS.com guidelines, copy and pasted verbatim and taken from pe.usps.com/text/dmm100/flat-rate-reference.htmFlat Rate prices are available when material is sent in a USPS-produced Flat Rate Envelope or Box. When sealing a Flat Rate Box or Flat Rate Envelope, the container flaps must be able to close within the normal folds. Tape may be applied to the flaps and seams to reinforce the container; provided the design of the container is not enlarged by opening the sides and the container is not reconstructed in any way. This might help ya............Tony
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Post by Roller on Mar 1, 2011 23:39:35 GMT -5
false advertising by our own gov"t ? oh well aren"t we used to that by now ... but I guess this is a lesson to really really reinforce the box as much as possible and get the craziest look in the world from the usps worker at the counter ... let them roll there eyes flip it around and make grunts and groans ... and ask you a dumb question or make even a dumber statement ....
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Mar 1, 2011 23:47:23 GMT -5
I've been cautioned now three times by our local post master. He held FRB's there for me to pick up so he could speak to me directly. They were of course full of rocks, bulging at the seams, some torn, some stones falling out. He said the box could be taped and taped and taped, but it had to retain it's original shape, then showed me some literature regarding this. There are some clauses listed by the fed regarding what happens if an FRB goes kablooey, and yes, they do either charge the shipper or the recipient, depending on the post master's decision. I wouldn't say it's unfair, as in my mind we get away with near-murder when shipping rocks in FRB's. So when I order FRB's from RTH'ers I have to mention now to make sure they are taped up good, as I may get charged if they pop open.
I don't think it's improper. The poor mail lady who runs my route must be 65 years old and she waddles down the hill to my house with a full box of rocks every time they come in. I keep telling her to leave a notice and I'll pick them up but she says she's not allowed to as long as the FRB conforms to US Postal Standards. Poor woman, she's not even allowed to drive the mail truck down the hill to my house, they can't come past the mail box in their vehicle, supposedly.
Oh, and by the way, I had one shipper photograph the box as she was dropping it off at the post office. Last time I went I took that with me. The box was in perfect shape, conforming to all the guides for FRB. I told him that here it is, the same box, and the only people that touched it were the US Post Office. This got me out of one of these billing issues you are speaking of here. So, to all RTH members who so kindly sell us hungry rock retards FRB Boxes full, take a digital photo of the box and email that to the recipient. This will save you both a load of trouble.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Mar 2, 2011 0:09:40 GMT -5
Did they re-package it in another frb?, if so, how did it fit? chromenut, tell your maillady to move to fla, they deliver frb's to our door. I reinforce heavy frb's I send by cutting another frb down and sliding it inside the first one, it doesn't take up much room. Dr Joe .
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rockhound97058
freely admits to licking rocks
Thundereggs - Oregons Official State Rock!
Member since January 2006
Posts: 760
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Post by rockhound97058 on Mar 2, 2011 0:16:38 GMT -5
I have shipped lots of Flat Rates! - In fact year before last I had about 450 - 500 of them shipped out. I do know if you slightly squeeze the limits they usually let you slide, However having a box so loaded and squeezed where it looks round they would say something to me.
My gut feeling is - If the box you recieved was so terrible, why the heck did they allow it do be shipped? The local office where it was mailed should have said (We cannot ship this).
The deal with the flat rate's is pretty funny. Typically Fed Ex is the ones who ship these around the country for the Post Office. The box sizes they use are designed to fit and stack within the "cages" they use to maximize the load. So in theory if the box is way overloaded it screws up their packing system and makes someone actually think and work.
I agree though, I would ask to speak with the Post Master of your branch and explain the deal. They should work with you - I know the folks at my branch are nice enough to work with people.
Good luck!
Jason
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 2, 2011 0:39:04 GMT -5
if it bulged too much, it was technically not legal, but if it was "accepted" it should be the end of the matter. if the flaps do not meet, they do not have to take it.
if it self destructs, it is not always USPS fault. I have had RTH'ers and ebay sellers put loose rocks in a box. That will tear up a box. They may have looked fine when dropped off, but they were mushed with holes when it got here, and the holes were not punched in - but pushed out. Totally the shippers fault. (when it is crushed it is the USPS fault.) A little newspaper and a couple of heavy rocks that can still roll around will rip the box. the rock must be immobilized.
if the rock was not properly packed, it is the shipper's fault. hope she does not get charged, but folks should know better. you put a heavy object in a paper bag and shake it, the bag tears. thin cardboard boxes are not much different
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Post by rockrookie on Mar 2, 2011 2:08:39 GMT -5
Thanks , All !! i'm going . ready to argue these valid points , after work . --paul
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Post by rockmanken on Mar 2, 2011 8:20:23 GMT -5
USPS is not a Gov't. entity anymore. It is privately owned. Also, they have reduced the thickness of the cardboard they make the boxes out of. I restock the shelves at the PO and have noticed that the small FRB is paper thin. Also, be careful when you get your box. They have exact same size boxes, but they are priority, not FRB. Ship by weight. Make sure it says Flat Rate Box on it. Paul, I would jump over the local people and go straight to the State Postmaster General.
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 2, 2011 9:43:55 GMT -5
Good luck Paul. Just remember that you are at a disadvantage until you see it because you have no idea if the box was choc full and bulging or properly packed. no idea if the shipper was diligent or derelict. heck, you don't even know if it is all there.
try to "see" it ASAP, and don't back yourself into any corners.
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Post by tandl on Mar 2, 2011 10:15:00 GMT -5
I think if the postmaster excepted the box from the beginning , it`s on them .
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Post by NatureNut on Mar 2, 2011 12:07:48 GMT -5
Good luck Paul. Hope you get somewhere with them, and get it solved. Putting out the good vibes for ya. Jo
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Post by 150FromFundy on Mar 2, 2011 12:34:48 GMT -5
Don't complain about Flat Rate boxes, or the USPS. At least this is an option for you. We have no such option here in Canada. It costs us Canucks about $3/lb to $4/lb to ship rocks to and frokm the USA.
Imagine paying $50 to $60 to ship a 20 lb FRB. The postage typically exceeds the value of the contents. Now that is something to complain about.
Darryl.
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on Mar 2, 2011 13:21:56 GMT -5
I have never had any of my FRB get turned away for taping them!
I use both wide 3M and fibered strapping tape on my boxes, never had anyone tell me I could not tape them like that.
I use the 3M on the flaps around the box twice and the strapping tape across that on the two ends in the other direction.
Just ask anyone that has received a box from me how it looks!
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