robbiejohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2010
Posts: 36
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Post by robbiejohn on May 24, 2011 14:59:45 GMT -5
Hi All, I'm sending this to follow my impulse to find short cuts and to save effort---basically lazy and impatient. I'm sure someone out there can set me straight. I'm wondering (without making the effort to find out for myself) if you can make acceptable cabs by cutting preforms from slabs, grinding/shaping them up to 220 or so, and then putting them through the vibe, (in my case a double barreled lot-o)? My guess is that you'd never get anything as refined as Ralph's work, but they might be acceptable for wrapping or grooving. Thanks for your help. I hope this doesn't sound too dumb. Cheers! to all. Robbiejohn.
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Post by tntmom on May 24, 2011 15:14:43 GMT -5
I do that all the time. The nice thing about the vibe is that the back side of the cabochon gets polished too. I have found a few stones that it doesn't work too well with and that would be jade or other stones that undercut badly.
~Krystee
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on May 24, 2011 15:21:25 GMT -5
I think a few people on here do that all the time, I only have rotaries so I haven't run but a few that way, but yeah you can get pretty decent results this way. The thing to look out for is pretty much what you'd expect, if you go into the vibe for too long with a medium grit you might lose some edge definition and depending how the material is structured undercutting can be an issue, and if you put it into polish before all the scratches are gone, you will probably have scratches in the end product. But check on stuff regularly and I think you might be pleasantly surprised how nice stones can come out this way.
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Post by johnjsgems on May 24, 2011 15:37:53 GMT -5
A lot of flat cabs are done that way and many final polish their domed cabs in a vibe.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on May 24, 2011 16:05:40 GMT -5
Biker Randy does a lot of "pendants" this way; 500 or more at a time.
Chuck
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on May 24, 2011 20:14:30 GMT -5
I'm in the middle of an experiment to try this right now, although it's slow going, since it is taking me some time to get enough preforms to fill my vibe. I'm thinking what you're thinking -- seems like there's absolutely no reason it can't work for wire-wraps and groove wraps. If I want the back unpolished, to prove that the item was hand-cabbed from start to finish, I can't go this route. But it seems like it might be a real help for inexpensive to mid-range cabs. I like leaving the back unpolished for high end hi-falutin' snooty cabs. You want to distinguish your work from mass production.
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 489
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Post by RocknCritter on May 25, 2011 7:32:23 GMT -5
I get the impression from some folks cutting cabs, that the stones which are "hand polished" are somehow better than the ones that have been tumbled. At times it can even come across as a form of elitist snobbery Ask a jeweler or collector and they simply don't care how the cab was finished! Seriously!! If anyone ever mixes a bunch of hand cut cabs with those that were properly tumbled in a vibe and it's virtually impossible to tell the difference without looking at the back. (I actually polish the backs of almost every cab now. It's what my customers generally want regardless of the setting - bezel, prong or wire wrap.) Depending on many factors including the type of stone, the cut, the amount of detail I want to preserve, my gem show schedule, the stones likeliness to undercut, etc, I send a lot of cabs through a vibe. In a few cases, other cutters have told me the polish from my vibe is vastly superior to anything they have ever seen polished by hand.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on May 25, 2011 9:17:54 GMT -5
Not such much snobbery as purist. Cabbers can get insulted by mass production methods (I actually do both- polish on the cabbing machine and tumble polish) My feelings are as long as your honest about the methods, there is no shame or "cheating" in tumble finishing cabs. Even my rotaries will produce a nice finish (although getting that razor edge on a cab is all but impossible in a rotary or a vibe). THe important thing is to be honest and have fun-
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 489
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Post by RocknCritter on May 25, 2011 10:34:39 GMT -5
In a historical context, since the first "cabs" were river tumbled stones that in one perspective are massed produced, who are the "real" purists?
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on May 25, 2011 19:34:35 GMT -5
RocknCritter, I absolutely DO agree with your discovery that sometimes you get the best possible polish by putting the cab in the vibe. I'm glad I'm not the only one who experiences this. Especially those pesky flat tops!
I would like to point out that I'm not trying to be a snob for the sake of being a snob or a purist for the sake of being a purist. Rather, I want the person who wears my stones to feel SPECIAL. There's a problem TODAY as the public becomes more willing to accept tumble-polished cabs in place of the hand-cut article, and the problem is that it reduces the value of the cabs because they come to be perceived as something that can be readily mass-produced. Then you're competing with the proverbial guy working for $1 a day in Africa. You're not going to survive or even feel particularly proud of what you've created, if you've turned out something that everyone else thinks came from mass production. It may seem like snobbery to point out the evidence of hand-cabbing to the public but we'd better educate these people if we don't want to end up selling our cabs 3 for $10. There's absolutely no future in that. Even if you create for fun, as I'm doing now, then it ISN'T fun anymore if someone mistakes your work for cheap junk from Michael's.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on May 26, 2011 0:19:33 GMT -5
Hi Robbiejohn,
I have been doing a few cabs in my vibe for a few years ,
You can also determin the sharpnes of the edge on preforms as to which stage you put them in
One point I find that if there is some slight hardness difference in the material it can distort the final form slightly but this dosent happen very often
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Post by 150FromFundy on May 26, 2011 11:04:01 GMT -5
I have started poilishing my cabs in a UV-10. Use lots of pellets for cushion.
I found that most are successful, while some are ruined by the vibe. If the cab is hard and stable, no problem. If the cab has varying hardness (pudding stone, granite, unakite, etc.) the vibe will attack the softer portions og the cab and undercut, or distort the shape.
This is the perfect process for me. I enjoy grinding gridles and domes, but am a little impatient when it comes to scratch removal. Finishing the backs is a real chore and omitted by many. The vibe will take car of all that.
Darryl.
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rockhound97058
freely admits to licking rocks
Thundereggs - Oregons Official State Rock!
Member since January 2006
Posts: 760
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Post by rockhound97058 on May 27, 2011 0:23:27 GMT -5
A buddy of mine does preform/tumble and produces several thousand cabs a week with this method. Once the batch is complete if any stones have blemishes he re-cuts & polishes by hand. They look great. Regardless if you tumble finish, hand cut etc.. anything has to look better than the pure crap China and India commercially cut. Also I know a couple of people who are lazy and send their material over seas to cut... Reason - It's cheap! However when they recieve parcels only about 50 to 60% is ok enough to sell. the rest goes in the junk pile. Also the guys over-seas are butchers. They have no clue how to orientate stone or maybe they just don't care. They cut for maximum product and not best pattern or color.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on May 27, 2011 0:54:54 GMT -5
Very true
And probaly some slave labour used as well
Jack Yorkshire uk
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Post by deb193redux on Jun 1, 2011 10:16:36 GMT -5
For calibrated size or girdles or protecting against undercut the hand cut cab is ideal - but I finished many cabs (actually pendant stones) in my Lot-O and later my Gy-Roc. IN some cases I wanted to play with undercutting to get a textured look on stones with mixed hardness and this could only be done in a vibe.
While there is considerable technical skills in getting the great shine on some stones, I think what really distinguishes many exceptional cab or pendant stone or polished stone for wrapping is the composition. The artist will select the best size shape location from the slab. It will be composed like a photograph. That is what people pay for. Overseas people are not the only ones who cut up a slab for max product. Non-artists everywhere do it too.
There is also a big difference between breaking up a slab, roughing out the shape, rounding the edges and tossing it in the vibe for a very very low domed double sided polished stone, and really grinding an elegant profile (which is where most of the work and craftsmanship is) and then putting the stone into 2nd stage in the vibe.
... So one size fits all judgement is difficult.
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Post by rocklicker on Jun 9, 2011 13:01:36 GMT -5
I am also in the middle of an experiment doing cabs in a vibe. I Cabbed them to 600grit and put them in a minisonic. I started them on 600 in the vibe then prepolish. Now they are on polish and so far so good. I went up to 600 grit by hand so they wouldn't be too rounded off in the vibe. The one benefit I can see is that the backs get done also. I have been a purest for years and refused to finish them in a tumbler, but I needed to do a lot of cabs quick for wire wraps. Have I turned over to the "dark side"? ;D
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