Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 21, 2011 10:16:04 GMT -5
Valid point there Rich. I remember when I lived in California during the big "oil shortage" and we were all lined up trying to buy gas so we could get to work or school, the Refineries in the SF Bay area were shipping tanker after tanker of oil to Japan. Once again money talks. Gas companies only make about 4% per gallon here in the US and our delightful government taxes each gallon 15% plus state and local taxes. Therefore, more money for them if they ship gas or oil elsewhere and we get higher prices due to shortages and extra taxes. The fact we've not been able to build much in the way of refineries in many years due to government and environmental group interference also helps keep prices up there and often encourages exports of oil products other than gas as often we do not have refinery space enough to process oil we get into gas. Also, gas consumption has dropped here in recent years so if companies have extra, they go where there is a market for their product and they get higher prices. Short of government takeover of the industry, I don't know how you stop companies from shipping where they make more money. You saying you want more big government?
Lots of folks here buy Valero gas because most the time all their oil is a US product. Whereas, if you buy Shell, it's all from the Middle east. So what's the answer Rich? Do we cancel the pipeline permanently, lose those jobs, have the Canadian oil go to China, and simply buy more from our enemies in the Middle East instead of from friends in Canada? I always hear a lot of complaining from you guys but never any suggestions on how to solve any problems especially the problem of creating more jobs. And from the Democrats, all we ever hear is raise taxes so they have more money spend......Mel
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 21, 2011 11:43:31 GMT -5
It's a no brainer Mel. You would think even the tree huggers would understand. If we don't buy the oil from Canada, someone else will. Someone is going to refine it. Regardless of where it is refined, it will impact the environment. If it's going to be refined, why not reap the benefits? Just because it is refined somewhere else does not mean the pollution will not eventually make it's way here.
Curt
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Nov 21, 2011 13:30:49 GMT -5
Mel, You might want to use a factchecker when it comes to energy taxes.
"our delightful government taxes each gallon 15% plus state and local taxes."
Unless I'm mistaken, our Government taxes each gallon of gas around 5%. The Government gets 18.4Cents out of 350cents per gallon.
I also think that making a 4% profit on gasoline in the type of quantities and prices we are talking today is a dream come true and amounts to quite a haul for energy companies.
charlie
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Post by parfive on Nov 21, 2011 14:35:03 GMT -5
[Not sure which point was the valid one, Mel, so I’ll do me a little bloviating too. ] As usual, Mel, you bloviate about everything under the sun (government takeover of the industry!?) and ignore the absurdity of how all this oversupply of “friendly oil” results in more expensive gasoline. Riddle me that, Batman. By the way, your 4% profit guesstimate is a crock. The experts can’t or won’t pin it down but it’s a damn sight more than that. Crude producers, shippers, pipeline companies, refiners, distributors and gas stations are all profitable and you’re trying to tell me it all adds up to just 12-16¢ a gallon? Tee-hee. New wells that might cost 70 bucks a barrel to produce are still profitable. How about those older wells that maybe cost $20 a barrel. Four percent, my ass. Do we “have the Canadian oil go to China”? There’s a good chance it will anyway – how convenient the Panama Canal expansion will be complete by 2014/2015. Less than 15% of our imports come from the Middle East. That’s only 7% of our oil consumption, so scratch that drilltard myth. And it’s irrelevant anyway for a global commodity, which also puts the kibosh on the “they go where…they get higher prices” argument.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 21, 2011 18:02:06 GMT -5
Yeah Rich, you're right., I misread the article on the total taxes which average 48 cents per gallon across all the states which I guess is about the 15%. 18.5 cents per gallon federal excise tax. I did read a couple of articles that had the 4% per gallon profit on gas but that does not include what the gas stations make in profit when they resell it. I wasn't talking about raw petroleum at all but I do have a lot of oilmen as neighbors and older wells are not necessarily more profitable as often the older wells have oil that must be stripped out and its more costly to recover.
And I still want to hear from you and Charlie about how you would put Americans back to work and satisfy future energy needs. Like they say, "fish, cut bait or get the heck out of the way". It's always easy to tear down someone else's ideas. I want to hear how you libs are going to save the future. How would you guys control all the big bad nasty profiteering worker screwing businesses *L*? And what would you do about spending and the deficit?
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 21, 2011 18:32:23 GMT -5
I'll answer that Mel. They would tax the living !@3% out of us.
Curt
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 21, 2011 20:37:45 GMT -5
Yeah Curt, I'm very curious to see what their brain trust will come up with. Something new or just the old mantra of tax and spend, more government make work jobs, and more unemployment extensions. Cause you know, Nancy psycho-eyes Pelosi says if you give folks free money they go out and spend it, thus boosting sales and the economy. That is if you don't count the fact they took it from working folks who would also have spent it except they can't because the government stole it from them first. And lets not even get into government waste *L*...Mel
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Nov 21, 2011 22:34:36 GMT -5
Additional producer revenues are possible if the Keystone XL Pipeline also relieves the oversupply situation in the Midwest. As discussed earlier, the market prices of Canadian heavy crudes should rise in the Midwest and in Western Canada by another $3.55 per barrel.”
Sweet!!!!!!!!! :drool: Can't wait, my business has been booming for 3 years now and looks like it will for a few more years to come. Maybe 4 more if Obama wins.
Saskatchewan dictionary defines oil as. JOBS and lots of them.
As for the Keystone, our PM has already said that we are going to sell our oil no matter what, if Obama does not want it. The pipeline will head west to the coast and China and India will gladly take it. All the pipe has already been purchased and it in storage. The line could head west as soon as next summer. As rumors have it in the patch around here. There is also talk around Fort Mac Murray that the big bad oil companies are planning on opening up around 20,000 jobs to US folks. There is not enough Canadians to fill the jobs that will becoming available with all the future plant expansions and production increases.
Btw does anyone know how many jobs were created to cleanup that oil spill in the gulf?
I'm so glad that in our past Nov. election. We almost wiped out our socialist commie party off the map. To bad it only took 80 years!!
People who have never owned a business or made payroll. Should not talk about how businesses should do there business. In realality wtf do they know about it anyway. Just stick to punching the clock and stop winein. And let them make money so that you can make money.
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Post by parfive on Nov 21, 2011 23:37:45 GMT -5
I don’t think anyone has the answer, Mel, other than nibbling around the edges. There’s been a fundamental shift the last few decades and no one has figured out how to readjust the system.
In the past, increased productivity resulted in more money for the boss and more money for the workers. It don’t work that way any more. Productivity continues to increase but wages stagnate or decline. Technology and offshoring do wonders for the boss, but you can retire that rising tide bullshit to the dustbin.
The biggest sector in the US economy now is nothing more than a glorified friggin’ casino, and that ain’t no way to run an airline.
You tossed somethin’ similar out for discussion a couple of years ago, can’t remember what, and my reply back then was FUBAR. That hasn’t changed, but hey, we got a nice little plutonomy goin’ here. The founders would be proud.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 21, 2011 23:38:35 GMT -5
Billy, *L* As we say here in Texas. Info right form the horses mouth. Even American unions want the jobs from pipeline building and energy development. North Dakota's oil boom has given them the nations lowest unemployment rate and is leading their state into a new period of prosperity just like in Canada. California, one of out more socialist/environmentalist states and a harbor for illegals runs over 11% unemployment and has monster debt. Would that we could get rid of our obstructionist socialists. *W* But then, maybe we will *L*.....Mel
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Post by parfive on Nov 21, 2011 23:41:46 GMT -5
Keep scraping, Billy. We haven't burned all of Texas . . . yet. ;D
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