mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Dec 19, 2011 12:04:42 GMT -5
I have been tumbling off and on for years, with medicore, inconsistent results, and am about ready to dump my tumbler. Here's what I have, and what I do.
My tumbler is a 3-12lb barrel Lortone. I run 46/70, 220, 400, 600, 1000, then TXP or Cerium for polish, 10 days each cycle. Stone sizes are mixed, uniform hardness (very careful about this). Barrels are 1/2 to 2/3 full, and I use 8-10 tablespoons of grit for each run. No beads, but it doesn't seem to make any difference whether I do or don't. The flats of the stones end up with acceptable (but not great) finihes, the edges are always nicked and dull. Always. It makes no sense to keep up this insanity when I can go to Quartzsite and buy stones tumbled by Brazilian peasants probably in old cement mixers, that totally put mine to shame. One last gasp. Any suggestions?
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Dec 19, 2011 12:11:50 GMT -5
Hi Mike,
I think we've all been there.
First, you need to fill your barrels more, between 2/3 and 3/4 full. Nicked edges are a sure sign that you don't have the barrels full enough.
Water to bottom of top layer of rocks.
Run your first stage for a month. You might try 120/220 instead of straight 220.
As your rocks wear away, your load size will decrease. You need to add filler (like pellets) to bring the volume back up to 2/3 to 3/4 full.
Hope that helps, Chuck
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Dec 19, 2011 12:19:49 GMT -5
Thanks Chuck, I will try your suggestions. I hate to give up on this because I run across a lot of rough, and cut a lot of stuff,plus I know it can be done.
Are beads really necessary to get good results? If so, at what stages?
Does it sound like I am using sufficient grit?
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Dec 19, 2011 12:51:54 GMT -5
I agree with Chuck about needing to keep the barrels at least 3/4 full, and pellets are good for cushioning and filler, especially in 500 and up. They can't cushion unless there is a large enough volume of a mixture of sizes of stones in the barrel. I use just over a cup of 46/70 in my 12 lb Lortone barrels. It is usually gone in 5 days. I use the same amount of 120/220 and 500, and a half cup of polish. I always keep and reuse any grit that may be left, and recycle all the polish too. I mostly tumble agate, jasper and wood. A mix of Cerium Oxide and Alum. Oxide works well for me.
Bill
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 13:13:41 GMT -5
Don't forget the Borax wash at the end. I tried it and my shine really popped. I put in enough to make a slurry so it did the necessary cushioning. When you turn on the tumbler and can hear the stones clattering you need to add something to stop it. Jim
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 19, 2011 13:30:31 GMT -5
As far as pellets you can either use ceramic media from start to finish and rinse/wash with rocks or plastic dedicated to each step. The plastic is most useful in pre and polish steps strictly as a cushion. Ceramics are useful as a grit carrier and a cushion as well as a useful filler as load decreases. Picture the drum turning and you can visualize what everybody meant by underloaded barrel. At 1/2 full the rocks rise and then fall rather than rotating/tumbling more gently. A classic symptom is the beat up rocks you described.
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Post by paulshiroma on Dec 19, 2011 15:22:36 GMT -5
One other item to add - Patience. The other forum contributors have all told me that several times over the last year. . The only other additional item that might be included is to not worry about specific time frames per stage. Rather, check each week, recharge, and move stones to the next stage ONLY if they're ready. Can't recall exactly who from the forum gave me that initial advice but it's served me well. Paul
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Dec 19, 2011 18:25:57 GMT -5
Chuck, when you run the 46/70 for a month, do you recharge periodically or just let it run? If you recharge, how do you know when it needs it?
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Post by Bikerrandy on Dec 19, 2011 18:37:23 GMT -5
With a rotary tumbler, you should re-charge at least once a week. Also, with most rough 10 days isn't nearly enough time in the rough stage, especially with the harder stuff (agates and hard jaspers). Some of these guys tumble in the rough stage for six months or more, but it doesn't always take that long. The rock, while wet, should look absolutely perfect before moving on to the next stage.
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snuffy
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2009
Posts: 4,319
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Post by snuffy on Dec 19, 2011 18:56:44 GMT -5
I use 18 tblsp in my coarse stage for 12lb barrel.Coarse stage is the most important stage in tumbling.
snuffy
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meta99
has rocks in the head
Ohio Flint Ridge flint
Member since October 2010
Posts: 540
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Post by meta99 on Dec 19, 2011 19:36:15 GMT -5
Just started tumbling the last few months. Coarse stage taking FOREVER! Checked if time to recharge and lots of leftover grit. Left it go another few days, and the rocks are smoother! What a shock! Recharged and filled with new rocks and/or plastic beads to make 3/4 full and back on they go for another week....I'll post pics when we get some sun or I get my lights set up as my first official tumbled batch is out and shines like all the nice ones here! Yay! Sue (newbie tumbler)
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Post by susand24224 on Dec 19, 2011 20:40:47 GMT -5
You said that the "flats" are always polished and the edges are not? Are you tumbling all slab-type materials? If so, it would probably be helpful to go to ceramics or some rock filler that will carry grit more effectively. Plastic is not a particularly good grit carrier, and I never use it (I just don't like the slippery little things).
Also, I agree with the statement of others on the board that you should go on to the next stage the the rocks are done. For some it will be 3-4 days, for some a week, for some months, depending upon hardness and the original shape of the rock. I have never had a successful tumble according to some formula of time--it simply depends upon the rocks and what each one looks like.
And--you sure are doing a lot of stages. That won't hurt anything, but it won't necessarily help either. During the course of the tumble the grit breaks down, so toward the end of a 60/90 tumble cycle you are really tumbling with 120/220, etc., etc. I often skip 120/220 completely, then to 500, then to 1000 (if rocks are Mohs 6 or less).
I hope this helps--you will get a lot of different advice, just keep experimenting until you find the formula that works for you.
Susan
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snowdog
fully equipped rock polisher
RIP David Fildes, aka: snowdog
Member since January 2005
Posts: 1,527
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Post by snowdog on Dec 19, 2011 21:13:16 GMT -5
looks like you are getting alot of good advise here -- and here is one more to think about ;D
from your first post , it also seems maybe you aren't getting enough "fines" ( very small stones , sand size, etc.) in there -- sounds like they are banging on each other too much -- I would use the small "B-B's size ceramic pellets ( just make sure they are the pure "white ones" --the gray have grit in them so ruin the polish stage) -- I do alot of slab type pieces and they always take longer because of the flat sides , especially if there isn't enough of the little- bitty stuff to get inbetween them also like the cermanic because they can be washed with the rocks and moved on with them -- the plastic can get grit inbedded in them and have to stay in the same grit so you need plastic for each grit size
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Dec 20, 2011 9:21:18 GMT -5
Can't really improve on the advice the others are offering, so I will just say...if you have access to your own material, which is special, you are doing something the Brazilian peasant can't do. Keep up your spirits by focusing on the best of the material available to you, especially if you have colors and patterns not normally seen in the cookie cutter tumbled stones assortments. Then you will have a purpose and your tumbles will be worth the wait! Don't learn on bad material, go ahead and use the good stuff. I went through a long period, over a decade, of being inactive in the hobby. One of the reasons is that I wasted too much time on poor material, then was already worn out/busy/out of grit or what-have-you when it was time to work the good stuff. The other reason was rip-offs and hassles from some of the hustlers, but you don't have to worry about that. With the internet and this group in particular, you have lots of resources to good, smart people who can guide you there. Anyway, my main advice is to set yourself a high goal, with good material, and it gives you more incentive to keep trying.
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Post by connrock on Dec 20, 2011 9:27:30 GMT -5
Something that I've found to make things more consistent in measuring rough grit is rather then measuring it by volume,I measure it by weight. It's pretty simple and much more accurate,,,,, 1 pound of rough grit for every 10 pounds of rocks.
I know how it feels to work at this and have fair to bad results as I did the VERY same for several years and did quit at one point in time. The thing is,,,,it bothered me sooooooooo much to be beaten by something as simple as a rock that it was constantly on my mind so I started again. Back then there was no internet and no one near me to help and I only had a couple of very poorly written instructional books on tumbling so for the most part,,,I was on my own.
One day I opened the tumbler after it's polish stage and found that I had finally got the mother of all shines on my rocks!!!! I was the happiest guy in town but,,,,,,I didn't have a clue how I did it!!! I had tried sooooooooo may different approaches and "recipes" and had no idea what I did to get this shine on my rocks!
I was pretty much disgusted with myself and from that load on,,,I kept a log of EVERYTHING I did. It's hell to make the same mistakes over and over again and it's VERY easy to forget what's going on. Try keeping a log of what you're doing,,,,it may help.
connrock
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Dec 20, 2011 11:48:27 GMT -5
Folks, thanks for all the good advice. I was pretty frustrated when I made the post, and was considering how much to list the tumbler for on ebay. But I am encouraged from all the comments to not give up on this. I know I can eventually get this right.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Dec 20, 2011 15:23:01 GMT -5
Hi Mike,
Just to get back to your question, yes I recharge weekly.
Also, as someone else pointed this out and I want to make sure it doesn't get lost: you need a mix of sizes, especially a lot of small pieces. One place to start is 1/3 of your load 1/2 inch or smaller.
Chuck
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carloscinco
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2008
Posts: 1,639
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Post by carloscinco on Dec 21, 2011 17:53:57 GMT -5
Make sure to have a good mix of sizes and shapes.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Dec 22, 2011 8:51:50 GMT -5
10 days is WAY to short for any stage. I run course until done (on average a hard rock like agate will be in course for a MIN. of 6 weeks). I then run 2 weeks for all other stages up to polish (using plastic pellets from 500 on up). THen 3 weeks in polish.
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Post by chad on Dec 29, 2011 17:59:14 GMT -5
I recently picked up some of the non-grit (white) ceramic media to use in a minisonic, but threw some in with a rotary load i started today. I know you can wash them with the rocks as mentioned above and move them along from stage to stage. Can they be run through the polish stage too with the load, or would it be best to swap out for the plastic beads I usually use at that point?
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