gregw
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2011
Posts: 21
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Post by gregw on Jan 4, 2012 9:54:10 GMT -5
I ordered a Lot-O and want a rotary for the rough phase. Should I get a single 3lb, double 3lb, or the much bigger 12lb. I couldn't use my Cabelas gift $ on the Lot-O, but want to use it on the rotary, so those are my choices.
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Post by Toad on Jan 4, 2012 9:58:14 GMT -5
12 lb. Rough phase takes the longest so get as much capacity as possible...
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gregw
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2011
Posts: 21
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Post by gregw on Jan 4, 2012 10:35:06 GMT -5
How important is mixing different rocks, or I should say not mixing different rocks in the rough phase? I have a variety of rocks I want to do, but not big loads of each.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 4, 2012 10:56:24 GMT -5
You can mix as long as hardness is about the same.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,456
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 4, 2012 12:01:34 GMT -5
Mixed loads run great as long as you do what John has said and watch these hardnesses. All the quartz gems ie: Jasper, agate, crystalline quartz etc seem to do well for me in mixed loads. Softer stones are better managed as individual batches as just a small difference in hardness can mess up your batch. Just remember to include lots of mixed sizes too with more smalls being better than less and only run a small percentage of slabs or large stones per batch for best results. Not real important to limit the number of slabs in coarse grind as long as you still have the smalls but in the polish stages it becomes more important to limit numbers so the other filler has plenty of surface contact with the slabs to make sure all slab flats are well polished.....Mel
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gregw
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2011
Posts: 21
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Post by gregw on Jan 4, 2012 12:18:03 GMT -5
Problem is I don't know the hardness. I will be polishing almost soley found rocks and don't know what it is. That's why I was leaning towards the twin barrel, I will have enough of simular rocks to fill 3 llbs. Small geodes in one and granite looking rocks (not sure what they are) in the other. I have a bunch of wood but it's very different from the ones I've seen on this site, don't know how it will do.
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Post by connrock on Jan 5, 2012 9:50:00 GMT -5
We all love to tumble rocks we've self collected and it is interesting and fun. Knowing the hardness of your rocks is important and if you don't it WILL give you problems down the line especially for someone who is just starting out in tumbling. You want to eliminate as many problems as possible beforehand and knowing the hardness of your rocks will eliminate one of them for you. A simple scratch test is all that's necessary and it can be done using a "good" pocket knife.file,piece of quartz,agate,or jasper. Try scratching each rock with any of the above and if the rock has a "true' scratch on it,it is too soft to be tumbled with the rocks that don't get a "true" scratch on them. Keeping up with the LOT-O is pretty tough to do.It's difficult especially when you are first starting to get into roughing rocks because it just takes a long time(up to several months on some rocks) to get the rocks roughed in and ready for the next stages which you will do in the LOT-O. Let's say you start a rough load of self collected rocks of the same hardness today in a 12 lb tumbler. If you did the scratch test correctly most of you rocks should be somewhere between a 6-7 on the Moh's scale of hardness,,, library.thinkquest.org/J002289/mohs.html,,,, All of the rocks in that 12lb tumbler(or any other rotary tumbler) will NOT be ready for the next stage at the same time!!!!!! You "may" find some rocks ready for the second stage after 14-20 days in the rough stage depending on how smooth the rocks were to begin with but most of you rocks will have to tumble for at least several weeks to a month or more. As you find rocks that are ready for the next stage you will have to put more rocks into the barrel to keep the volume at the proper level as well. You have now started a continuous "flow" of rocks that are ready for the next stage and every week after this you will find more and more rocks that are ready but,,,,you WILL NOT get all of the rocks ready at one time.I know I repeated myself but I DO want to make this point. So which tumbler should you buy? Well for starters I doubt if Cabelas sells a 12lb tumbler that has the right RPM's for tumbling rocks.They do sell a 12lb tumbler but it's for tumbling used brass cartridges for shooters. It's the same tumbler used for rocks but it's motor has twice the RPM's as one needed for rock tumbling. I think the motor is around 3000 RPM's and that's way too fast for rocks. Better check on that before you order it? ? I just coppied this from Cabelas web site and you can see the tumbler has a 3000 RPM motor,,,,, Thumler's Tumbler Thumler's Tumbler Model B Rotary Tumbler
The Model B Rotary Tumbler works equally well with dry or liquid case cleaners. with a barrel rotation of 30 rpm and a motor speed of 3,000 rpm, with enough room for over 250 .30-06 cases the rotary action is great for cleaning grimy primer pockets.
The correct motor for this size rock tumblers turns at 1550 RPM's which will turn the barrel approximately 15-18RPM's. In any case,,,I think a 12 or 15 lb tumbler should keep you in enough roughed rocks to keep the LOT-O going for you but it will take a while before you get enough rocks ready for your first load in the LOT-O. connrock
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 5, 2012 9:56:11 GMT -5
That is good info on the Cabella tumblers. I think most Thumler's are available with optional high speed motor for metal finishing. I have an AR6 I picked up cheap "that doesn't start unless you spin it". Turned out to be a 3000 rpm motor and won't start full of rock.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 5, 2012 16:00:02 GMT -5
Connrock, thanks for answering a question that I've been wondering about. I have my first batch of rocks in a Lortone 33B. I put in some rounded rocks collected from a beach and some that I broke from larger rocks. After doing a bunch of reading here, I realized that the rounded rocks will probably be ready before the rougher ones. I wasn't sure if I could take some out early and replace them with new rocks.
I still have a question though. I'm coming up on a week of tumbling. If I remove some rocks, should I add grit or should I replace the water and the grit? It seems like if I continuously run rocks in 60/90 in one barrel, at some point I will need to completely replace the water and grit, but how do I know when that time is?
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gregw
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2011
Posts: 21
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Post by gregw on Jan 5, 2012 17:21:16 GMT -5
Thank you all for the help and especially connrock who has taken the time to type detailed responses. I'm learning every time I come to this site. I went with the twin 3 lb unit because the rock that I want to tumble seem to be very different and also because a friend is giving me a single 3 lb unit that has just been collecting dust in his closet. That gives me 3 barrels with 3 different rock types which should keep me busy. Thanks again.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jan 5, 2012 17:45:39 GMT -5
I've got to admit, hearing "several weeks or months" for the first stage has me quite discouraged. We bought my daughter a lortone tumbler last year after reading the instructions and talking with some local rockhounds - all who indicated that the whole process would take about 4-6 weeks (all four steps)
I felt bad telling her 4-6 weeks before she could see finished rocks, but it sounds realistically like it will be more like 2-6 months! The vibratory tumbler sellers are even worse, claiming that you can finish a batch in as little as a week.
I wish I would have seen this site and that information before we got her started tumbling. She is very patient and thorough but months and months of tumbling just sounds like too much. I'll tumble the rocks either way, but I am disappointed in the retailers and manufacturers of these products for their misinformation.
Thank you connrock and others for shooting straight.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 5, 2012 17:47:57 GMT -5
Be careful what you purchase from Cabellas, I don't think that they sell any tumblers that are suited for tumbling rocks.
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Jan 5, 2012 18:38:48 GMT -5
You can FINISH a batch with a vibe tumbler in a week. To start the batch will take a week to 6 weeks in a rotary. That's why I have 2 -12lb rotaries and a UV-10. When I get rolling, I can do a batch a week in the vibe, but I have to have a couple or three weeks head start with my rotaries. It is a lot-o fun...just have to have patience...it took a long time to make the rock...just a blink in geologic time to cut and polish them...it's all in perspective Lee #1
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jan 5, 2012 18:52:08 GMT -5
Thanks Lee. Yes I do have patience, my frustration is more in setting expectations for a little girl.
We have some batches tumbling in our tiny 3x1.5# Lortone tumbler now, we'll leave them there for another week and see if any can move on.
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gregw
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2011
Posts: 21
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Post by gregw on Jan 5, 2012 21:54:48 GMT -5
Here is a random sample of the rocks I'm going to try. Cabelas sells both brass and rock tumblers. Attachments:
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Minnesota Daniel
freely admits to licking rocks
A COUPLE LAKERS
Member since August 2011
Posts: 891
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Post by Minnesota Daniel on Jan 6, 2012 0:01:04 GMT -5
I find that a continuous "flow" of rock, as Connrock aptly calls it, is easier to manage with a dual 6lb rotary model than a single 12lb barrel model.
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Post by connrock on Jan 6, 2012 7:35:55 GMT -5
herchenz,,,, It is unfortunate that the tumbler manufacturers say you can have polished rocks in much less time then it really takes but then there are polished rocks and there are polished rocks.
What I 'm saying is that maybe a little girl doesn't want a perfectly polished rock without any flaws?Maybe she would like some polished rocks in a sort of flawed way?
If your rocks are starting to get rounded and don't have any major cracks or other flaws in them you can go on to the next stage,,,sort of prematurely?
You WILL have to be VERY careful to make sure you scrub any cracks and other flaws with a tooth brush,soap and water to get any grit out of them before proceeding to each following stage but it can be done.
,,,,this is a 1st for me telling someone how to do a less then perfect tumble but I feel VERY bad for you and your daughter.
I'll send you a Personal Message with my email address in it and if you like I'll try my best to help you speed up the process a little anyway???
connrock
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Post by connrock on Jan 6, 2012 7:46:36 GMT -5
jugglerguy,,,
If your tumbler was loaded right you shouldn't see any signs of rough grit in 7-10 days so,,,, After every 7-10 days you have to "recharge' the barrel with new grit/water and add more rocks to keep the volume up to the correct level in the barrel.
DO NOT forget to add small rocks that will be at least 1/3 or more of the load at every grit change in the rough stage.
In the later stages a cushion/filler media can be used but we're not there yet,,,are we?
connrock
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Post by connrock on Jan 6, 2012 8:06:39 GMT -5
gregw,,, Something that may help you,,, In your photo there are different 'types' of rocks,, The upprmost and 2 on the bottom look like they may be granite so they will not shine up like glass.They will shine but not have that perfect shine to them. The blue/white one on the left should be broken where you see that crack(s) in it or it will take longer to rough and also cause you problems with grit contamination further down the line. Also,the white one in the center/right should also be broken at it's crack.It looks like you can just "knock off' the smaller "top layer' which should be fine. There are really only a few ways(that I know of) to speed up the roughing process and "trimming" you rocks beforehand is one of them. You want to try to avoid any concave areas and cracks and by breaking these problem areas off or away will help. You WILL find that some of your rocks will break up into pieces that are way too small and not be suitable for tumbling but that's the nature of the beast and that's that.
Junk in,,,,,junk out!
connrock
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morsefire
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2011
Posts: 83
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Post by morsefire on Jan 6, 2012 10:22:18 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks again to connrock for a very informative post.
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